Elton John's take on the last American Idol

[henryrobinett]

Elton John\'s Comment about American Idol

 

It would appear a lot of flak and fallout over last week's abysmal vote. I didn't have to say it. It seems more credible coming from someone who's not black and is an artist and was there as a guest artist sitting and working with the singers first hand.

[Philip OKeefe]

Taken from the above link:

 

The results moved show host Ryan Seacrest to remind viewers that the series was a talent hunt and not a popularity contest.

 

"America, don't forget you have to vote for the talent," Seacrest said before closing the show. "You cannot let talent like this slip through the cracks."

 

The problem with AI is that it IS nothing more than a popularity contest.

[Geetar]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

Elton John\'s Comment about American Idol

I didn't have to say it.

You say whatever you like, Henry. In all my lurking life, I've yet to read something you wrote that I disagree with.

 

Oh, yes, and I'm white as a sheet of copy paper.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by Geetar:

You say whatever you like, Henry. In all my lurking life, I've yet to read something you wrote that I disagree with.

 

Oh, yes, and I'm white as a sheet of copy paper.

Well that was a nice thing to be sayin'. Thank you.

[Lee Tyler]

Excerpt from an Entertainment Weekly interview with Bruce Springsteen:

 

EW: So you're unimpressed by the opportunities to be found for young talent on American Idol?

 

SPRINGSTEEN: Ah, the great, terrible Darwinian spectacle! I haven't seen it, but it's the theater of cruelty that has everybody fascinated at the moment.

Das' Kewl.

[Wewus432]

Guys, you'll thank me for this later. Stop watching that crap, it has nothing to do with music. I thought it was amusing the first time around, now it's just a joke.

 

Don't you just hate it when you get dressed down by someone like Ryan f'ing Secrest for not voting right. Ohhhh that really hurts. Who, or what the fuck is he?

[Bob Keelan]

Agreed, agreed but the real (music industry) world is a popularity contest.

[henryrobinett]

LOL!! So true Bob.

[Fendercaster]

I agree with everything y'all have said here, it's just a popularity contest. But please, Please, PLEASE, everyone PLEASE vote that non-singing redhead John Stevens off the show!

[henryrobinett]

I'm with you! But unfortunately it's not set up to vote someone OFF. It's set up t vote for who you want to stay on. So in a bizzare twist it has a positive slant. But that's why the little redheaded kid keeps stayin' alive. The little toeheaded girls keep voting for him BEYOND ALL LOGIC AND MUSICAL TASTE. That's the other thing wrong. If you tell me he has sex appeal I'm eating busting my own kneecaps. He needs to sing "Do You Think I'm Sexy?" or "I'm to Sexy".

 

The guys a sweet kid and needs to stay with his grand parents.

[Alndln]

I didn't see any of the shows so I can't comment about particulars,but since there have been winners both black and white I don't really see Elton's point,unless they suddenly changed policy.My problem with the show is that it paints a picture to young immpressionables that this is what being a musical artist is,winning a contest.

[coyote]

Unfortunately I've now seen the show twice; it's awfully difficult to avoid my wife's overtures to come watch a music program with her instead of doing my own thing. I don't understand the appeal of this sort of programming. It's StarSearch without the variety the old show offered, and it's The Gong Show without ANY of that show's humor.

 

But it's no surprise in these times that entertainment is becoming ever more restrictive and mean-spirited... guess it's time to move this topic over to the SSS Political Party.

[Psychotronic]

Elton's view that the show is racist is typical liberal knee-jerk reaction -- especially since no one seems to remember that for the first 5 weeks of the show, it was all white kids that were voted off. It's not racism, it's math.

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by Alndlnbot:

I didn't see any of the shows so I can't comment about particulars,but since there have been winners both black and white I don't really see Elton's point,unless they suddenly changed policy.My problem with the show is that it paints a picture to young immpressionables that this is what being a musical artist is,winning a contest.

That's the point though isn't it? You have seen any of them so you can't comment. That is the whole point. It's not about last year or previous years. It's not even about earlier in the season when both black and white and hispanic deservedly were voted off. To comment on this you really have to have seen it, OK?

 

Originally posted by Psychotronic:

Elton's view that the show is racist is typical liberal knee-jerk reaction -- especially since no one seems to remember that for the first 5 weeks of the show, it was all white kids that were voted off. It's not racism, it's math.

What kind of math are you talking about? Let's not talk about "typical liberal knee-jerk reactions". We're talking about how the obviously three most talented singers all ended up in the bottom three. There are only a few possibilities. Hm. Maybe two possibilities for reasons why this could happen. One of them involves the ugly and uncomfortable word racism. I said it folks --RACISM. I don't think those kind of statictics qualify you to jump up the political bandwagon here. This does NOT belong in the political forum. Racism should not be a POLITICAL discussion. I resent the bringing politics into this. Blaming the messenger is a "typical knee-jerk reaction".

[Gulliver]

I think nowadays racism = rap.

 

[Phil B]

Not sure if anyone caught Jimmy Kimmel's monologue last night, but he showed a picture of that red-headed kid singing and called on all white people to vote the kid off because it was "getting REALLY obvious."

[coyote]

Actually, racism is all about power - the power of one race vs another. As such, it is inherently political. Therefore, this discussion does indeed belong in the political forum.

 

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

This does NOT belong in the political forum. Racism should not be a POLITICAL discussion. I resent the bringing politics into this. Blaming the messenger is a "typical knee-jerk reaction".

[henryrobinett]

Politics involves democtrats vs republicans - political parties and all useful conversation breaks down into political camps. Very unproductive. I've never been ovver to the political forums and I refuse to do so.

 

Racism is about humanity or the lack thereof. I CAN reduced to bromides about power. But it's more about mans inhumanity to man. It could also be religious for that matter.

[Base]

It's only ever worth watching in the first couple of weeks when it's a free for all of everyone that wants to get on the show, that is hilarious!!! I think a better format (probably not for ratings and finding themselves more clones tho) would be if it was ALWAYS like those first few shows, but not limited to kids. Ie, different guest judges (and I mean people that really could give some advice, artists, producers, managers, maybe Henry could go on ) and have it open to EVERYONE, kids singing unaccompanied, full blown bands, hip-hop/rappy stuff, etc. And it goes NO FURTHER than the audience getting to see what they can do and some comments from the 'judges' be it Cowell-like slating or some worthwhile pointers on where they could take it from there. That would make a show with some hilarious wannabe's and give some serious talent just a little shot of exposure (and not the pressure of a fully-fledged contract and their lives signed away).

 

What do you all think, could we copyright and start producing this between us???

[Kendrix]

I did not see this show either.

However,I'd observe that the charge of racism seems inconsistent with the facts regarding how America spends its music dollars.

Look at the artists dominating the charts.

No shortage of very successful black artist there. It seems they are often winning the "popularity contest". Why would the AI audience treat them differently?

It seems really hard to determine WHY folks may have voted as they did.

What facts ( versus opinions) support the charge of racism?

 

If this is real it is certainly disappointing.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by Kendrix:

It seems really hard to determine WHY folks may have voted as they did.

It's simple. Lowest common denomintor.

They had 3 talented people, that split the votes from people who were voting on talent. The morons who don't recognize talent voted for the person they liked. And those people got the popularity votes and on.

[Franknputer]

Sorry, but I don't understand how this can be construed as racist. Care to expand on it? I mean, it's a vote-based show, and AFAIK you get to vote as many times as you want, with text messaging & phone calls (so it's really not even a representative vote, let alone an accurate arbiter of talent quality).

 

Is the contention that somehow there was a conspiracy to vote down the darker contestants? Is someone alleging that the votes are being tampered with? What exactly is the racist action we're talking about here?

[coyote]

First off, it's difficult to ever prove racism in any hard factual way, short of videotape of folks in white robes setting fire to a cross in someone's yard.

 

That said, who knows what's motivating the voting audience? The red-haired kid keeps moving along, while non-white singers considered talented by folks like Elton vanish. However, there remain non-whites in the contest - so any real charge of racism would be difficult to justify.

 

It all seems kinda dismal really; I have to find something to do next Tuesday evening so I don't get roped into watching it again

[M Peasley]

I wonder if there are statistics from Nielsen (spelling?) or somebody about the demographics of who watches the show.

 

Logging in as middle-class middle-age white bread, I do hear ('tho I usually don't agree with) the comments my peers and acquaintances make about popular music and the most common rants (unscientifically polled from my memory) are:

 

1. they hate Brittany

2. they admire the skills of the R&B diva singers (black or white), but they are totally burned out on the narrowness of the material and the copy-cat vocal acrobatics

3. they particularly hate rap and consider it evil

4. music in general has gone all to hell and MTV and the record companies are probably the reasons

 

My Dad's generation, that hit middle age in the 60s, did seem to have a lot of general resentment against blacks. This caused a lot of tension in our family as my brother and I, children of the 60s, were idealistic and fiercely anti-racist.

 

As far as how the white folks I know feel about black music, there is terrific reverance for black gospel, the old soul music, the jazz greats, Bob Marley, Hendrix, and the blues masters. Mixed reverance for classic divas like Whitney, pop stars like Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson, etc.

 

As we all know, white people are clearly divided on the predominately white country music genre between the haters and the lovers.

 

As far as what I consider the "good" hip-hop stuff, they are totally ignorant. They are also totally ignorant of electronic music except for maybe Vangelis. Some go for New Age. A whole lot are stuck in terms of musical taste somewhere back in time at Fleetwood Mac, Bruce Hornsby, U2, etc.

 

I don't detect musical racism in general among the white people I know. Except that the very few white people I know that already have evident racist tendencies, sometimes go particularly purple in the face over rap and sometimes will mock the rappers and imitate black voices with contempt. This behaviour makes my blood boil.

 

Unfortunately, I must say that among white country music fans, I have run across more racism than is typical among the rest of the white crowd.

 

Hey, I'm from the South, and I'm just telling it like I see it. My perception is unscientific and certainly not flawless, but I'll stand by it as my honest appraisal.

 

Among the kids in integrated schools, things get really complicated. I don't know enough to spout off and generalize about kids' attitudes, but I do see evidence of a lot of racial hostility and racism on both sides of the color lines. It's sad.

 

M Peasley

[Tedly Nightshade]

The personal is political. If it involves people, it involves politics. The "political forum" involves a narrower and far less useful definition of politics- that what you see on the front page of the paper is politics.

 

And folks, get this- anything that involves voting, is inherently a popularity contest.

[Dan South]

I don't watch it. Ever. I wouldn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy Star Search either (I watched a few of those back in the day).

 

Programs like this appeal to people who gain a vicarious thrill from the idea that there is some magic short cut to the rewards of fortune and notoriety. I don't believe in short cuts, so I spend my time WORKING rather that WATCHING. It's more fun.

[Alndln]

Originally posted by henryrobinett:

You have seen any of them so you can't comment. To comment on this you really have to have seen it, OK?

If you actually read my post you'll see that I didn't comment on the recent spate of events.However,since the show and it's contestants and results are constantly shoved down the public's throat I hardly merit seeing any of the shows to comment on it's results.Again,I didn't see the show in question,but that doesn't mean it won't be shoved down my throat at every opportunity like all the rest of them wether I like it or not.I'm sure I'll be able to comment about the show in question after I'm unwittingly filled in by the weeks end.Garanteed.I guess the question here is wether the show is racist in general or just recently or just this time( ).Although I respect him as an artist,I'm starting think Elton is a moron.

[george costanza]

Henry, I sometime agree with you, sometimes think you take things a bit too seriously (but then, life can be serious!).

 

Here I'm skipping over the bulk of commentary here to wonder:

Why are you (& I mean anyone reading this, not just HR) watching that show? Do you expect it to be/reflect anything other than the tastes of the mass of US "music" consumers?

Doesn't the voting reflect the general attitudes of US culture (& therefore shouldn't it be logical to expect it to reflect those biases (improper/unfair though they may be) ?

 

Does it cost to call in a vote? If so, I suggest that's one of the main points of it---to collect a bit of chump change (along with the "instant Nielson rating effect").

 

I've never seen the show (other than excerpts) but I think it's about advertising & generating a built-in fan base for short-term pop acts.

 

[Now going back to read if someone actually beat me to the punch on those thoughts.]

[Nawledge]

M.Peasely thank you.

 

Henry I understand what you are saying, and fortunately there are alot of white people who are not trying to hide from racism and understand

that its not a myth, its not about economics, and it's not about the sixties or politics, but there's still to many people period who try to act like it doesn't exist, or that it isn't a priority.

 

at every turn we run into that wall 'racism'. no matter what the artform, and to be honest I don't even know why people act suprised, it's like we've done our best to forget who and where we are.

millions of less substanstial things than hatred have been passed down through generations why some people think racism is a fleeting fancy is beyond me.

 

new kids on the block were icons

what happened to 'new edition' (their self decribed music idols)

why didn't all the kids who had 'new kids' albums

have 'new edition' albums?

 

alot of people say 'hey racism in music, no way, look at the charts rapmusic is the top seller, and white people are the top buyers....

but.... the top rapmusic that is busting up the charts is shit music. what is it about 'hiphop music that doesn't attract the top buyers like that crap at the top of the charts? there's something about the image of blacks that is not attractive to the buying public unless it is denigrating, violent, disrespectful, hateful, criminal, mysogenistic, and overly materialistic.

this same image that the buying public and media institutions propagate, support, and make multimillionares out of is then turned around and used as a definition for what it means to be black by the very same people, Even though those artist like 50cent are the minority of the rappers out there. I can't tell you how many forums I've been on where someone challenges me to name more non-50cent like artist, they always name 5 or six gangster rappers while I can name many many many more hiphop artist.

 

the point is

there will never be any black people in woody allens new york, american idol is true to its name sake and look at it this way, at least they are truthfully reflecting america, it would be worse if they were trying to fake it. what I do in my life is celebrate unity with yellows, blacks, whites, browns, and reds of the same heart, the rest of the world can usck idck.

[Ren.]

Originally posted by Fendercaster:

I agree with everything y'all have said here, it's just a popularity contest. But please, Please, PLEASE, everyone PLEASE vote that non-singing redhead John Stevens off the show!

He's gone. Not that bad for a 16 year old. There's this white girl who I belive sings hawrrible... she sang Gloria Estefan's "Turn The Beat Around" completely off tune... Judges liked it. She got into the top 3 today...