Jump to content

Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Neil, et al, Yamaha PM1D

Recommended Posts

For all the "live" guys...


My latest run (S. Korea) is a relatively new [blue Note] club (4 wks old).


Pat Martino preceded us. What a great musician! I had to check out his show twice, the 2nd night bringing the whole band with me. The guy has been working for over 30 yrs, and has bookings up to & thru next May. (We are not affiliated, I'm just impressed).



It's designed with a similar theme as those other BN clubs, except this club in on the 2nd floor, where most others I've been in are in the basement.


L'Acoustics FOH rig,

BSS processor FOH

Yamaha PM1D console.


The stage is about 34ft x 20ft, 22" high. Venue seats about 180~200, ceilings are double or triple floor high (25-40feet or more). PA (mains & subs) is flown above the stage.


Usual compliment of mic's - AT4050's, SM98's, SM B52, 57's, AKG 414(?), Beta 87's etc...


All (well most) of the processing is done onboard - all comps/gates, most eq's (graphic or parametric), most of the delays - I added my TC Electronics D-TWO because of speedability :cool: .


Of course, there's a catch. When I got their equipment list, I saw the PM1D, and said..."whoa!", and assumed everything else was on point.


A few days before getting here, with my usual paranoid style, I am double checking with one of their tech guys...


No monitor console! The monitor mixes are done off the House console. The show is somewhat dynamic. Lots of effects and fades ESPECIALLY in monitors. A few elec guitar>acoustic guitar swaps...


The console has enough aux mixes, but how am I going to do -


stereo keys mix

3 background vocal mixes

guitar mix

bass mix

down stage vocal mix

drum mix (preferably stereo)

vocal in ear mix (stereo) and

drum headphone mix


in addition to


5 effects sends (4 stereo +1 mono returns), plus Monitors reverb return to the ears mix, and preferably a second monitors reverb return shared between backgrounds and acoustic guitar ? (acoustic guitar is taken direct).


Well, let's introduce kink #2. There is only amplification for 8 monitor wedges...and the wedges are 12" + horn. No drum monitor.


So I lose the bass wedge (everybody has a mic except keyboards, but tonight I give him one so he can talk to me via a cue wedge...)


The PM1D is a great console. I've heard a few "big" guys rave about it, and how great it is to have if you have a touring rig. I've only used it once before back in ...2002? for 30 minutes.


I agree with them. BUT, it was not the ideal console for what I'll be doing this week. If the SONY R100 had 16 auxes (or even 12 - it has 8), it would be a better equipped console for this type of environment. So far, I have not found a way to GLOBALLY send signal from every channel to aux 3 (example). Also, on the PM1D, I am hoping that there are ways of cleaning up the display menus. Way too much information sometimes.


That aside (and the rest of stuff I'll find and bitch about later), the 1st show got off to a weak rumbly start. Too much to do, not enough independent buttons on the console. By the 3rd song I had the beast (both the show & console) somewhat tamed and manageable. The 2nd show was even better.


The venue had no CD-R available, so I recorded on the laptop using Goldwave. Surprisingly, both recordings (ignorging previously mentioned rocky start) came out very well. My tech bloopers were few and not as serious as I envisoned.


This reinforces what I believe. Once you get in the saddle come show time, RIDE! It's probably a lot better for the audience than it is for you, and probably a lot better than you think.


'Drew out.


btw, it's been raining for 2 days, temps in the 40's-50's....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 15
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I've never had the pleasure of mixing on the PM1D, but everything up until TinderArts' comment has been stellar. I think it is necessary to have some advance time to work out the routing, as your experience seems to reinforce.


Tinder, what tours, in particular, have combined the PM1D and poor sound quality? Feel free to email me if this needs to be kept close to the vest.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman




Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aaah... good luck Drew.


I've been using a Digital Console for PA and recording for years. It's great the way you can do so many things.... but that's also it's problem.


I end up mixing a live to 2 track recording, the PA, and the monitors all at the same time most nights.



Valkyrie Sound:




Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Valky, Guys,


I did some reading, some 'xperimenting, some guessing, and saw was able to send auxes GLOBALLY, from each channel to specific mixes on the fly.


Life is much better now...


Neil, I've been in close contact with the PM1D before, but not long enough to form any long term impressions. If I'was only doing house, it would be ok...maybe even great...but...I too have seen 1st hand the damage one of these in the hands of a gearlusting dude can do.


Give me a nice Midas (almost any) or a Crest V12 any day of the week. The Crest V12 wins hands down for me, no contest - except where it's multiple acts...


Mats, I've not used the Digico yet. I was one of the 1st stateside dudes on the Innovasion, back in 96 or 98, I mixed a live to radio show in Paris on one of them...


I've also used (and recently sold) the SONY DMX R100...so digital boards are not totally alien to me...


Somehow, it feels like there's a gap in pricing, and interfaces for consoles of this type. All I need is 72 channels TOTAL(56 + 8 stereo ch), 20 auxes, a direct out on each channel, with the ease of use of the R100. It should have options for analog or digital interfaces.




NYC Drewzzzzzz

Botch, Pat Martino's having a workshop in NY mid May. If I'm in town, I'm going...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't just put it out there that you were one of the first in the U.S. to use the Innovasion without saying how you liked it, not to mention whether you have had a recent opportunity to mix on one and compare the current software/hardware to the early version, Drew! ;)


So the PM1D is not quite adequate as a monitor console, or as a combination FOH/monitor console??


BTW, I'd take the Midas... Haven't used the Crest V12, but every Midas board I've mixed on from the Venice on up has combined fantastic sound, build, and flexibility. What more can you want? A smaller footprint for those 72 channels. OHHHH!! That's why I'm waiting for a durable, flexible, easy to navigate live digital console! :D

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman




Link to comment
Share on other sites



It's been so long with the Innovasion...


What I remember is being impressed with it's speesd and ease of use, even though the console was like a big box of faders with a small "channel strip" (eq, etc).


I also remember stumping the Seinheisser guy that had brought the console to the venue in CT for them to evaluate (Casino), cuz I was ZOOMING on that puppy, without as much as a quick overview.


My problem with the PM1D (and I'm sure familiarity reduces this), is, it's just too cluttered. Too many buttons and doodads.


Just to clarify...if you're using the console as a monitor console only, I'm sure it's a great tool, because it has what, 48 auxes, 12 DCA's (digital equivalent of VCA's), etc, etc...but what you trade for having comps/gate on every channel, 4 band para on each channel, 5 band para on each mix/group, 12 or 24 or (I don't know how many) assignable 1/3 oct eq's anywhere in the signal chain...is the INABILITY to see the "big picture" quickly.


Last night we had some major feedback on the lead vocals while she was on stage. Was it in the house, or the monitors? Keyboard mix or frony vocal mix?


1. I can't phase reverse the mic on stage but not in the house (not that I can do this with a analog console...but hey, it's digital baby!)


2. The aux sends are pre eq, or post fader. It seems I can't have the send post eq, pre fader. I know many an analog console where this is feasible.


3. Given the size and power of the beast, using the board in a hybrid (house/mon) config should have been sussed out thoroughly. How hard would it be to put a little 3 band para eq on each channel for the aux sends and leave the 4 band + LPF/HPF for the house/mains?


4. Ditto on the comps/gates. If they TRULY wanted my money (and not that the R100 comes close to even doing this), in a house/mon config you should be able to have two almost independent discrete signal paths. Independent settings on the comps (especially) for house versus monitors.


I'm sure that today I'm going to find that all of these things are possible! :cool:


Now, for the plusses.


1. Preamps are top notch.

2. EQ's are more precise (also, visual) than on an analog console

3. More everything, less footprint.

4. It's digital. Settings are portable.


'Drew out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the complete picture. That could be very helpful when I finally come up against a PM1D, myself.


As for the pre-fader/post-EQ signal path, Yeow! That's a given on virtually every pro-level monitor console. Lots of people prefer to keep the fader out of the chain entirely. (For those who don't mix monitors much, remember that moving the fader when it IS in the entire signal chain, you change level on everyone's mix. It's an easy mistake to make that can be eliminated by elimiating the fader. ;)

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman




Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by TinderArts:

Without naming tours, some of the worst sounding big tours I've heard in the past few years have been those with the PM1D. I'd much rather have an analog console.

Is it the console's fault? I've been to several bad sounding concerts over the years. Could be the speakers, the amps, the room, the gain structure, lots of things.


Worst sounding big shows:


Van Halen, 1984

Peter Gabriel, early 90's


Best sounding


Yes, early 90's (revolving stage with speakers above it)

The Black Knight always triumphs!


Link to comment
Share on other sites


This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Create New...