Big Changes with Kontakt 6

[burningbusch]

This is very bad news coming from Chicken Systems. Moving forward, Kontakt is a closed, proprietary system in every sense.

 

"Files created by the upcoming Kontakt 6 (release Oct 1), due to encryption and new NI policies, will not be accessible by any program other than Kontakt 6 itself.

This means that you will not be able to translate, view, operate on, or audition Kontakt 6 NKI files within any third-party product such as Chicken System's Translator, Kontakt Assistant, or Constructor. You can only access/load/use them in Kontakt 6 - nothing else.

The Kontakt 6 extension will be the same - .nki/.nkm/.nkb. If you try to access those files in Translator, or any Chicken Systems product, you will get an error message.

 

What You Should Do

If you are interested in using Kontakt for authoring, or place some value in taking your information into some other format - such as EXS24, or SFZ, or your keyboard workstation (Motif, Kronos, Kurzweil, etc.), we advise keeping an older version of Kontakt around for creating accessible files. And if you use Kontakt 6, do not resave those nki's. Best Case: use a version v4.1 or less, giving you complete access. With v4.2-v5.8, you can access much of the information, but not modulators, filters, or effects.

Or choose not to upgrade to Kontakt 6. The majority of improvements are geared toward developers, not users, according to many experts who have seen the initial versions.

We believe this is a mistake on NI's part. This does not serve their user base well. Not all will care about this restriction - but we know, firsthand, that many will. We have strongly advocated to NI on the behalf of all Kontakt users, for the last eight years, about the importance of full access to ALL data, but those efforts have ultimately failed. Perhaps NI will reconsider their new position in the future."

 

I, for one, always author in Kontakt 4.

 

Busch.

[dsetto]

Thanks for the heads up. Whats your contender for 2nd best?

[Jazzmammal]

You know the old cliche ...and this is why we can't have nice things? It's hackers, effing hackers. It's the bane of my existence in my tax business. The IRS continually updates their login procedures for authorized reps. The tax software all pro level tax prep firms use are constantly updating security procedures, our offsite IT firm that handles our network is constantly doing updates and those updates can cause certain things to not work correctly. It's a total pain in my ass but it's also completely necessary. This is also why MS does all these Win10 updates which can mess with our audio setups sometimes.

 

Doing things online including sensitive confidential stuff was supposed to streamline everything, make life easier and faster, go paperless, etc. Well, the hackers have really done a good job of ruining things for everybody.

 

NI has to make a profit in order to stay in business and I don't have to tell you guys that pirated software is a huge problem. There may be a marketing element here too, don't know but when they talk about encryption and not allowing third party access it sounds like a hacking issue to me.

 

Bob

[RABid]

I agree and suspect that sample developers are asking for this. It has to be frustrating to make a big investment in a supposedly protected Kontact sample library, only to have a third party program translate your samples into easy to distribute unprotected formats.

[dalpozlead]

This means well have issues trying to create libraries from sampled synths (home made)?

[Sven Golly]

This means well have issues trying to create libraries from sampled synths (home made)?

 

No. What in this thread makes you think that?

[Geoff Grace]

Thanks for the heads up, Busch! It sounds like a wise choice to keep an older version of Kontakt installedideally 4.1 or earlier.

 

Unfortunately, the option to not upgrade to Kontakt 6 isn't really viable for people who buy a lot of libraries. Eventually, most new releases will require Kontakt 6. Some of those will only require the player, but others will require the full-fledged app. As the new version is reported to be particularly developer friendly, it seems likely that we'll see quite a few releases on that platform.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[burningbusch]

You know the old cliche ...and this is why we can't have nice things? It's hackers, effing hackers. It's the bane of my existence in my tax business. The IRS continually updates their login procedures for authorized reps. The tax software all pro level tax prep firms use are constantly updating security procedures, our offsite IT firm that handles our network is constantly doing updates and those updates can cause certain things to not work correctly. It's a total pain in my ass but it's also completely necessary. This is also why MS does all these Win10 updates which can mess with our audio setups sometimes.

 

Doing things online including sensitive confidential stuff was supposed to streamline everything, make life easier and faster, go paperless, etc. Well, the hackers have really done a good job of ruining things for everybody.

 

NI has to make a profit in order to stay in business and I don't have to tell you guys that pirated software is a huge problem. There may be a marketing element here too, don't know but when they talk about encryption and not allowing third party access it sounds like a hacking issue to me.

 

Bob

 

I think you're missing the issue and what's going on here.

 

With prior versions, any sample library that runs on the Kontakt Player would have required the developer to enter an agreement with NI for licensing. The developer would purchase licenses (in bulk) as well as pay setup and development fees NI. In return, the developer's libraries would be copy-protected and authorization happens through the Native Access app. Chicken Systems Translator CAN'T TOUCH those libraries. They are locked into Kontakt/Kontakt Player format and can't be converted to any other format. The WAV files are encrypted as well. YES, hackers do find ways to get around this, but it has nothing to do with Chicken Systems Translator or any other conversion program. I don't see how the change in Kontakt 6 has any impact on these developers or NI's revenue/profit.

 

Other developers, like myself, do not license through NI. As a result, our libraries are not copy-protected, but they require the full version of Kontakt and won't run in the free Kontakt Player. A customer can take one of my Kontakt libraries and use Translator to covert for use on a different sampler. I personally don't care. And it's actually none of NI's business if they do. I could also directly provide my libraries in different formats (I've done this in the past) and this might be the way to proceed in the future if Kontakt becomes viewed as a proprietary dead end. NI's move does affect developer's like myself and our customers.

 

This is not about hackers and copy-protection (unless there's something in Kontakt 6 that would allow developers to copy-protect the WAVs, but I haven't heard that). Honestly, it just feels like a dick move on NI's part. They are the defacto standard and are pushing their weight around. If they have some rationale for this move, I'd love to hear it.

 

Understand, all the Translator does is to translate the multi-sample mappings (root note, velocity spread, key range, tuning, etc.) as well as some basic programming into different formats. Anyone with access to a libraries' WAV files could manually do the same thing. It's just a giant PITA. But that's all Translator does. It can't mess with copy-protected files so it's not any kind of hacker tool.

 

Busch.

 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

You might be aware that Sonokinetic took advantage of a rare discount period to buy a bunch of licenses from NI not too long ago as they feel compelled to go to Kontakt Player format for all of their products and are canceling the ones they don't think are worth bothering with carrying forward.

 

At the time, they said something about how only locked formats will be supported by NI going forward, and I thought they meant EVERYTHING will have to be a Kontakt Library, but now I see how they accomplished that in a different way, which makes it less of a cost burden on many developers but also limits small-timers such as yourself.

 

I haven't checked the other samplers to see if they already had similar limitations, but am pretty sure both EXS24 and UVI/Falcon do. Probably Yellow Tools Engine as well.

[Reezekeys]

Busch, trying to understand here. If you always author in K4, why not just continue to do that? Won't your libraries load into K5, 6 and beyond? As long as NI allows new versions of Kontakt to load K4-authored libraries there shouldn't be an issue, unless there's something I'm not getting (highly possible, I know!). Also, you would think that if NI eventually changed their format enough to make K4-authored libraries incompatible, they (or a 3rd party) would make a translator to convert older to the newer format.

[burningbusch]

At the time, they said something about how only locked formats will be supported by NI going forward, and I thought they meant EVERYTHING will have to be a Kontakt Library, but now I see how they accomplished that in a different way, which makes it less of a cost burden on many developers but also limits small-timers such as yourself.

 

Kontakt 6 doesn't restrict us "small timers" in any way. I can use K6 to create libraries as always. It will finally have a decent scripting editor and there are other tools for importing and building libraries. Other developers wanting full copy-protecting and the ability for the libraries to run on the Player will still have to pay NI for licensing. Nothing has changed. In addition to the costs, having spoken to one frustrated NI developer, it seems NI is strongly pushing that all new libraries be NKS compatible which requires sizeable development time/resources and, largely, only benefits NI.

 

I haven't checked the other samplers to see if they already had similar limitations, but am pretty sure both EXS24 and UVI/Falcon do. Probably Yellow Tools Engine as well.

 

No EXS24, is open. UVI uses a similar licensing to NI. UVI instruments are built in MacFive.

 

The following software (in addition to many hardware) sample formats are available as sources for Translator and should be considered "open":

 

Native Instruments Kontakt Instrument/Multi/Bank (.nki; .nkm; .nkb)

Apple EXS24 (.exs) All Versions

Digidesign/A.I.R./inMusic Structure (.patch)

UVI Falcon (.uvip; .uvim)

MOTU MachFive 1, 2, 3 (.m5p; .m5m)

Tascam GigaStudio (all versions) (.gig)

Propellerheads Reason NN-XT (.sxt)

Ableton Sampler/Simpler (.adg; .adv)

Emu EmulatorX (.exb) All Versions

Steinberg HALion 1 and 2 (.fxp)

IK Multimedia SampleTank 1, 2, 3 (.sth;.sti;.stw; .xml)

Akai MESA 1 and 2, Millennium (s3p, .prg)

Creamware Pulsar/STS (.sts; .p; .s; .wav)

SoundFont (.sf2)

Downloadable Sounds (.dls)

Cakewalk SFZ (.sfz)

Speedsoft VSampler 2 (.vbs)

CWIAudio TX16Wx (.tga)

Image-Line DirectWave (.dwp' .dwb; .wav)

Togu Audio Line TALSampler (.talsmpl)

One Small Step Grace Sampler (.lpg)

Propellerhead IDT (.inst)

New Sonic Arts Nuance (.nu)

iRompler (.xsml)

Digidesign SampleCell (.ins)

Native Instruments Reaktor (.map)

Bitheadz Unity DS-1 (.uds)

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Busch, trying to understand here. If you always author in K4, why not just continue to do that? Won't your libraries load into K5, 6 and beyond? As long as NI allows new versions of Kontakt to load K4-authored libraries there shouldn't be an issue, unless there's something I'm not getting (highly possible, I know!). Also, you would think that if NI eventually changed their format enough to make K4-authored libraries incompatible, they (or a 3rd party) would make a translator to convert older to the newer format.

 

No, you are correct. I misspoke above when I said it affects me as a developer. It does not. If I was stupid enough to build an instrument in Kontakt 6, it would be locked into that format. Rather I'll use an earlier version of Kontakt (or some other tool) to build the multi-samples and do all of the mapping/voicing. I can then easily convert those to the Kronos, Forte, Montage/MODX, EXS24 or anything else. I can then open that instrument and do the scripting and final programming in Kontakt 6 if I so desire.

 

My complaint is that I think this is a negative for the community.

 

Ironically, Kontakt might not have become the defacto standard it is today had it not been for open formats. When Kontakt was introduced, it borrowed disk streaming from GigaSampler, but offer no libraries. There were no third-party libraries for Kontakt. What it did provide was an internal converter for Giga, Akai, SF2. GigaSampler was the standard at that time and might have continued to be so if Tascam hadn't screwed it up.

 

Busch.

[Geoff Grace]

I remember importing my Akai libraries into HALion, when Kontakt and HALion were first released. (I was on a Mac, so I didn't want to invest in both a PC and GigaSampler.)

 

I chose HALion because Steinberg was an early leader in virtual instrument development, and Native Instruments had yet to emerge from the pack of new developers at that point in time. I recall having a lot of problems with the HALion format back them, so I moved to Kontakt within a year and never looked back.

 

Of course, Steinberg was soon acquired by Pinnacle Systems and then by Yamaha, so HALion development languished for awhile. Native Instruments was the only remaining player that could follow its muse without a corporate parent calling the shots.

 

As we all know, UVI came along shortly after, first with MachFive, then with UVI Player, and more recently with Falcon, and Steinberg has turned HALion into a robust platform; but neither company has managed to attract the third-party development that Kontakt has.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[burningbusch]

Yes, Geoff. I invested in VSL Pro Edition ($5,000) back in the day. Giga format. When VSL switched to their own format they offered an upgrade but it was pricey and, as I wasn't doing much with orchestral libraries at the time, I passed. Later I went in, using Translator, and bluk converted all the .GIGs to .NKIs. I cleaned up everything and did some basic scripting to create a more usable version. All for my personal use, but has allowed me to continue to get value out of that investment. For that, and other reasons, I support open formats.

 

http://www.purgatorycreek.com/PCS-xtras/images/VSLProEdition.png

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Thanks for the heads up. Whats your contender for 2nd best?

 

I'd say continue to use Kontakt. I have Kontakt 4, 5 and will buy the upgrade to 6 at some point. All should be able to reside on the same system.

 

Busch.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Saw this mentioned on the Yamaha Musicians forum. Someone there contacted NI and was told that there is some misinformation going around and to read this thread on the NI forums.

 

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/read-this.336845/

 

Looks like they are busy right now.

[burningbusch]

Saw this mentioned on the Yamaha Musicians forum. Someone there contacted NI and was told that there is some misinformation going around and to read this thread on the NI forums.

 

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/read-this.336845/

 

Looks like they are busy right now.

 

Awesome news if this gets flipped around.

 

Thanks.

 

Busch.

[Mighty Motif Max]

And here's the message posted by NI on that thread today.

 

"Hello again,

 

Having had the chance to talk to Garth from Chicken Systems earlier today, heres an update on the topic. To the point: with Kontakt 6, we have changed nothing about the way Kontakt reads and writes files. It is just that maintaining the technical solution that we had in place to allow Chicken Systems to read and write Kontakt files takes up time. And we chose to invest this time into developing new Kontakt & Creator Tools features instead. We never actively spent time to prevent anyone from taking their work from our platform to another. It was the other way around: we didnt spend the extra time to enable them to do so conveniently (one could still use Creator Tools to extract some data from their Kontakt creations; we are not locking anyone in).

 

That being said, we do see why Chicken Systems wanted to inform their user base that things are different for them with Kontakt 6. We just feel that the tone and a lot of the content of their post was painting an inaccurate picture of our intentions and by focusing on certain aspects of the latest developments there was plenty of room for misinterpretation on the technical aspects as well.

 

One last thing: we are listening, and as were moving forward with Kontakt & Creator Tools, we are doing our best to make sure to focus on the things that matter the most to all of you using our products on a daily basis!

 

Thanks,

Dinos "