NI Komplete 12 announced, with new top Collector's Edition

[Mark Schmieder]

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/bundles/komplete-12/compare/

 

I know Geoff mentioned this in the new controller thread, but a LOT of people will miss that as not that many are interested in controllers (most already have what they want for now). It needs its own thread anyway.

 

At a $200 differential for receiving the complete Symphony bundle vs. the cut-down version, it seems that upgrading from Komplete Ultimate 10 to Komplete Collector's Edition 12 for $600 is the best value overall for those of us who held out on K11.

 

I'm very happy to see a Middle East instrument collection in this edition; can't remember if that was already released earlier (maybe I even briefly discussed it at the time).

 

I have been waiting on some of these updates (such as Session Strings Pro 2) to re-track some stuff as finalization of some projects, so the timing is perfect (though this is still a pre-order at this time).

 

I'm completely unsurprised by the K12 announcement today, as yesterday was the deadline for grabbing discounted K11 licenses.

 

The new high-end edition with the full Symphony set is a surprise though, as I didn't really think it likely they would offer those in discounted form ever.

 

Kontakt 6 looks to address the competition from Falcon, by adding more effects and a granular synthesis block, amongst other enhancements, but overall is less of a bump from v5 than I expected. And still no FM8 with FS1r emulation :-(.

[Mark Schmieder]

I keep getting Monark and Massive confused, so wasn't initially interested in Massive X as I own a Minimoog Voyager and thus don't use software minimoog emulations, but Massive is a great synth that I have only occasionally found the time to delve into, and I am especially hoping they give more direct access to stuff in the update 9as well as simpler library loading and locating).

 

The Massive X update isn't until FEB 2019 but will be free to those who buy Komplete 12 now.

 

I still haven't spotted whether the prices are promotional in nature, and if so, when they expire.

[EricBarker]

Pretty excited. Been a LONG time since I upgraded Komplete (I think I'm on 9 or 10, forget). But I probably will now. Somewhere along the line, Massive became my bread-and-butter. I know it's not the latest-and-greatest, it may not have as good of anti-aliasing as Serum or Sylneth, but I bonded with it, and the interface workflow just clicks with me. I've been sitting on pins and needles since the X announcement. As I mentioned in the other post, I was very afraid it was going to get rolled into Reaktor, as I can't remember the last time NI came out with a whole new VST, but from the screenshots I'm seeing, it looks to be standalone. Love the idea of a modular block workflow, that's one thing I've always wanted in Massive. That and truly random LFOs. I've started using Roli Equator for sound design, even though I probably don't like it QUITE as much, it has random LFOs where Massive doesn't. We'll see whether X adds that.

 

With Kontakt, I've been pretty happy since K4 (K5 seemed like a VERY minor bump), and can't really think of much that they would improve, but I'm open to being surprised by new things! I will probably upgrade this time around, but I'd like a full rundown of features first.

 

I'm finding the lack of information surrounding both (particularly Massive X), to be very strange. I can't remember NI ever announcing a product and not instantly hyping the features to death. If it's out in Feb, it's hard to imagine they're still nailing things down, at least enough to make a bullet list. I can only imagine that maybe they're doing some last-minute tweaks on the UI, and don't want to post shots in case it looks different. But this is kind of unusual this close in.

[Mark Schmieder]

My guess would be that they are focusing on performance tweaking for Massive X, as it likely is a CPU hog, given its feature set.

[Bobadohshe]

I'm in the same boat Mark with Komplete 10. Been holding out. This has all the updates you mentioned and I think it's time for me.

[EricBarker]

Hmmm, I'm actually not seeing a lot of things in here that I feel I really need since Komplete9. Konakt6 and Massive X will be the biggies, and probably worth the price alone, though. Many of the other things I've purchased similar products piecemeal. But there's some goodies in there. Almost tempted to one day move up to Ultimate, but damn... I really don't want to be locked into that. At this point I'm probably better off targeting individual 3rd party products that I need.

 

As for Massive X. I get that they're holding out selling them to do some last-minute tweaks, but the fact that they aren't giving a huge rundown, hyping it up is just kind of weird. I don't detect anything suspicious, they probably think it's better marketing, and who knows, they might be right (Apple used to not introduce a product until it was ready for sale and it worked for them), but it's just kind of unlike NI, who loves to talk up their products long before they're on the market.

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm already sold on the Middle East library as I went through my extensive annotation tonight and was astounded that over half of these would be my first sound source! And this is coming from an ethnomusicology hobbyist who probably owns more libraries than the rest of the forum put together!

[Geoff Grace]

I have a feeling, Mark, you're forgetting that Fleer posts here. My impression from reading her VI-Control posts is that she's constantly buying libraries and plugins.

 

I'd bet forum members like Steve Nathan, linwood, and hardware also have sizable collections. Even I alone have close to 3TB. While I don't discount at all the possibility that you have the most libraries, it might be tough to beat the rest of the forum put together!

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

At a $200 differential for receiving the complete Symphony bundle vs. the cut-down version, it seems that upgrading from Komplete Ultimate 10 to Komplete Collector's Edition 12 for $600 is the best value overall for those of us who held out on K11.

I was thinking the same thing. Nice option.

 

That said, it'll presumably be an even better deal next summer, during the first Komplete 12 sale.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[EricBarker]

Heck, not even that long... NI always do a Holiday sale, without fail. It's usually the same prices as Summer of Sound.

[Markyboard]

Deleted.

[Geoff Grace]

Mario Kruelj, a.k.a. EvilDragon addressed the possibility of a sale so soon after Komplete 12's release in a thread at VI Control:

 

could we expect some discount on black friday?

Nope, it's too soon.

My guess is that any Native Instruments holiday sale this year would revolve around individual products rather than the Komplete 12 bundles.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Mark Schmieder]

Hey Geoff, I'm at 10 TB at the moment. :-)

[Mark Schmieder]

After reviewing the vi-control thread last night, and input from studio friends, it seems the strings are mostly well-liked, the brass can be tricked, and the woodwinds almost universally despised (were they recorded at Grace Cathedral in SF? -- sounds like it from people's comments on mud, boom, and infinite loop of echoes).

 

So now I need to check the pricing on the strings to see if the upgrade from essentials to full, is worth $200. :-)

[Doerfler]

I'm finding the lack of information surrounding both (particularly Massive X), to be very strange.

 

Massive X not shipping for another 5 months. I will wait until then to see what offers are being made.

[zeronyne]

Thank goodness I didn't upgrade over the weekend to Ultimate like I had planned.

 

I will say, for those of you who missed my grand saga, NI did me a real customer service solid. One sentence summary: I bought a USED (still under warranty) Kontrol S61 mk2, and it arrived malfunctioning, and they had no issues with replacing it with a new one. Despite some sluggish responsiveness, it's hard for me to fault them.

 

Is the collectors edition worth it? How are NI's expansions in general? I have Komplete 11, for context.

 

[Husker]

I will say, for those of you who missed my grand saga, NI did me a real customer service solid.

 

I had a very positive experience with NI support as well. I upgraded from the Symphony Essentials bundle (have Komplete 11 Ultimate) to the full collection this summer during their sale. Unfortunately for me, I purchased the wrong thing (Upgrade instead of Crossgrade). I thought that it would take weeks and quite the headache to get sorted out. On a lark, I called their US number, had a real human on the phone in about 90 seconds, and the problem resolved in about 2 minutes. I was pleasantly surprised.

 

There is so much to Komplete Ultimate - I wish I would have known about this new Collector's edition before I purchased the full symphony series.

[SteveO42]

I'm on KU11 and I see no reason to upgrade to the Collector edition. I'm not into EDM and not a developer so what's in it for me? Granted I'll have to go Kontakt 6 at some point. Disappointed that the interface is still minuscule awful and not scalable like Omnisphere is.

[Geoff Grace]

Mario Kruelj, a.k.a. EvilDragon discussed the difficulty NI has in making changes to Kontakt's codebase in a thread at VI Control:

 

From a programming perspective it must be one of the simplest improvements to implement - and one of the most useful to end users.

Not when you have to deal with almost 2 decades of legacy code with a GUI framework that is a horrible PITA to use. The whole GUI shell needs rewriting from scratch with modern frameworks and that's a huge amount of work, as there is a lot of stuff that can break internally if they're not careful enough. And they don't want to fuck it up, so... we wait.

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

Hey Geoff, I'm at 10 TB at the moment. :-)

Yep, that's a lot.

 

I have trouble keeping track of it all with just the 3TB. Do you ever buy something again forgetting that you already own it?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Jonathan Hughes]

This is a real helpful chart that compares every version of Complete (including 12). I have 10 Ultimate and it's definitely not worth $400 to upgrade to 12. Unless you're really into the expansion pack that you get, it's a hefty price.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C2lEubeNV6OzUnj5o8o6pBPU_jGgzeCALNTLOnoPxeA/edit#gid=0

[Mark Schmieder]

Geoff, I don't forget what I have because I have a hugely detailed annotation list, which gets difficult with ethnic stuff where I don't always know initially about equivalent terms (at which point I merge the entries and make that clear).

 

[ Special note: the 9.5 TB is EVERYTHING, including stuff like G-Force M-Tron Pro libraries, BFD and Superior drum libraries, and less than 5 TB of it is Kontakt format , with probably 2 TB or so being devoted to Vienna Symphonic Library stuff ]

 

When I am focusing on a specific instrument, I arrange the coverage list based on my ratings, with some minor notes to the side as to why that is a/the top choice.

 

My bigger problem is within Kontakt itself. As more and more vendors switch to Kontakt Player, the scrolling of those icon-based library containers has become unwieldy and so I have now ceased arranging them by instrument category and am about to even stop using the Library tab altogether and just strictly find things using the File System Navigator.

 

I think there might have been a new way to arrange the icons, in a point release of the current Kontakt, or maybe in the upcoming one, but I haven't had time to verify I have the updated manual, to relocate it (NI installation areas change a lot) and to study it.

 

I'm glad that Massive X will normalize its path access to the way other NI synth-based apps do it, which has definitely become easy and intuitive over the years (but didn't used to be). I sometimes have difficulty finding my Massive data, even when consulting its user manual.

[Mark Schmieder]

Good to see that comparison chart has been updated. I bookmarked that link years ago but hadn't loaded it recently to see if it's been brought up to date.

 

Although I don't bother trying to keep canceled products going, that chart is useful for seeing what incremental changes have accumulated since the last time we might have personally updated our collection, to better evaluate the timing of an upgrade and also to be aware of anything we might have done piecemeal in between (for instance, I upgraded Reaktor).

[Mark Schmieder]

Geoff, do you or Mario know which GUI framework was used for Kontakt? As a developer, I'm curious. Thanks.

 

I did open the application structure to see what is inside, but it's just a Unix executable with no support libraries, and the Info.plist file and PkgInfo have nothing in them that provides even the tiniest clue, other than NOT Java or Qt (the two most widely-used desktop-based GUI toolkits that have been around for twenty years).

 

Maybe one of the older toolkits is in play, but I think most of those sprinkle some hints in the packaged distribution of the app.

[Geoff Grace]

Mark, thanks for your notes on how you keep things organized. I can understand why the ethnic libraries might be tough to organize. I have my own list, but it's spotty and incomplete. I need to get back to filling it in when I have more time.

 

As for the GUI framework that was used for Kontakt, I wouldn't be surprised if Mario knew. He's been answering questions left and right in the threads I linked to above. I'm confident he would answer, if you asked over there.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Mark Schmieder]

Geoff, let me know if you'd like me to send you my RTF file that annotates sound sources. I also have an older file that I kept on disc but don't maintain, that has stuff in it that I sold or decided not to buy, as time marches on.

 

I have resisted the temptation to join another forum. Plus, that one annoys me with how many people ask the same rec over and over again, without doing a search themselves, and every time the recs they receive are clueless as to the scope of what's available, and yet taken as the final word.

 

If I joined that forum, I would have a hard time resisting the temptation to contribute -- although I did eventually succeed in (mostly) resisting the temptation to contribute here, on threads where I have deep expertise but which have been addressed many times over. :-)

[Mark Schmieder]

I did more piecemeal buying than I realized, so may not be able to justify $400 or $600 vs. buying Middle East on its own and upgrading Kontakt.

 

I bought India on its own, did the Reaktor upgrade separately, and bought the chorus/flanger/phaser effects when they came out.

 

The one that I need to already-finished projects that still have time for some re-tracking, is the Session Strings Pro 2 update, which is quite expensive.

 

Most of the other new stuff in K11 and K12 is EDM oriented, which isn't me.

 

So, I'm going to look deeper at the other stuff, now that this chart also makes clear that the Symphonic Percussion is new to K12 -- I'll check whether it already existed on its own, has any magazine reviews, and audio demos. I can never have too much percussion!

[Mark Schmieder]

I didn't notice "Thrill", which is sort of an aleatoric symphonic library that has an XY-pad sort of real-time interface for real-time morphing.

 

The new effects pack includes a distortion, bit crusher, and ring modulator -- the latter being quite rare in the plug-in world (I am only aware of the oine from Melda Productions, which is multi-band, and the one from Plug'n'Play).

[Geoff Grace]

Geoff, let me know if you'd like me to send you my RTF file that annotates sound sources. I also have an older file that I kept on disc but don't maintain, that has stuff in it that I sold or decided not to buy, as time marches on.

Thanks, Mark, I'd be interested in seeing how you've got things organized. I'll shoot you a PM with my email address.

 

I have resisted the temptation to join another forum. Plus, that one annoys me with how many people ask the same rec over and over again, without doing a search themselves, and every time the recs they receive are clueless as to the scope of what's available, and yet taken as the final word.

Yeah, that can be a problem at VI Control. On the other hand, Hans Zimmer and Charlie Clouser post over therenot to mention a few other heavyweightsso it's not without its strengths.

 

I didn't notice "Thrill", which is sort of an aleatoric symphonic library that has an XY-pad sort of real-time interface for real-time morphing.

 

The new effects pack includes a distortion, bit crusher, and ring modulator -- the latter being quite rare in the plug-in world (I am only aware of the oine from Melda Productions, which is multi-band, and the one from Plug'n'Play).

+1 on Thrill and the new effects. (Una Corda seems nice too.)

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Mark Schmieder]

I've re-evaluated the list and decided not to do the KU12 upgrade -- maybe I'll wait for KU13. I only need the Middle East library and the Session Strings Pro 2 upgrade, for immediate project work (meaning by end of year), so can wait for Black Friday sales on those.

 

As the Kontakt 6 and Massive X upgrades aren't available until February or later anyway, it seems kind of silly to pre-pay. They're midway between Komplete upgrade cycles, and even Komplete goes on sale by then (usually).

 

If I hadn't bought India and the Reaktor 6 upgrade a la carte, things might be slightly different, as well as if the symphony series had gotten better reviews or was all one vendor for consistency and for easy mixing.

 

I have plenty of symphonic libraries though, so they'd have to be extra special (such as from the Berlin series, which I don't yet own any of).

 

There are plenty of people for whom any variation of Komplete 12 is a smart move, however. At the moment, my money is mostly going to hand-built acoustic instruments that retain or increase value, vs. technology-based stuff that becomes outmoded or loses value quickly.