iPods and other MP3 players -discussion

[Super 8]

iPod is pretty much synonymous with MP3 players. Do any of you own one? How do you like them?

 

I see Dell has one out as well. Anybody own one? Or one by another manufacturer?

 

Any recommendations?

 

Bang for the buck?

 

Does either one randomize playback any better than Winamp???

 

One thing I'd like to do is to plug an MP3 player into a car stereo. You would think that there might be some aux in's on the front of the stereo....but I haven't seen any on the models I've looked at.

 

They want you to use one of those little radio transmitter dealies, which seem to me like a ridiculously complex way to solve a very simple problem.

Thoughts on this?

 

Any other thoughts on anything???

 

I just want to talk about MP3 players. I don't have one, but it's on the list of things I need to buy in order for my life to feel complete.

[iMember]

I want an ipod too. I feel it will complement my ibook.

 

Also you can use it as a harddisk. Now, how more portable can you get?

[Phil B]

I was looking into iPods a while back. While, of course, they are cool, I ultimately decided that if was going to spend that much money on one of these things I'd want to be able to record with it - whether catching samples in the field or recording rehearsals, etc. I was all set to buy an iRiver iHP120 or iHP140, but browsing the forum I didn't see too many recorders too happy with them. Apparantly you can't manually adjust recording levels, and there are dropouts in the recording every time the hard drive kicks in.

 

I'm actually waiting to see what the new minidiscs have to offer. The knocks on minidisc were always storage size, inability to upload other than actually recording to the computer in real time and ATRAC compression. It seems like HiMD solves these problems: 1 GB discs, upload capabilities and ability to record uncompressed PCM files. We'll see if it's too good to be true, and it definitely won't be as good of a "mp3 player" compared to the iPod. But, if you're interested in using to record, it may be a better option.

[Dave Bryce]

I just got a 15GB IPod a few days ago. It's my new favorite toy in the world. This thing rocks!

 

3500 tunes, instantly available. A portable "radio station" that only plays my record collection. I use it in Shuffle mode, so I never know what's coming next; plus, the AAC compression format actually sounds pretty great - much better than mp3, IMO.

 

I love it. I stayed at the gym an extra hour today because I was so into listening to it. I think everyone who loves music needs one of these...

 

dB

[dementia13]

Does either one randomize playback any better than Winamp???

I swear my iPod reads my mind sometimes. There are some songs it seems to fixate on (I wonder if some of Apple's engineers are big Bjork and Smashing Pumpkins fans), but there are times when I think, "I'd love to hear "that" after this, and "that" is exactly what plays. Sometimes for several songs in a row. For a collection that includes metal, jazz, prog, electronica, and bluegrass, it's remarkable how smoothly the playlist flows in shuffle mode. I rarely get an abrupt shift, which makes me wonder if there's some sort of algorithm that matches tempos. Or reads my brain waves.

I think there are now third-party devices that will run an iPod into a car stereo. The transmitter thing is not a bad idea, but I'm having poor luck with the iRock. The batteries don't last long enough, and you only have a choice of four frequencies. In my rural area, there are many religious stations broadcasting at the low end of the dial that bleed into those frequencies.

[Super 8]

What'd ya spend?

[Salyphus]

I also have a 15GB iPod and LOVE it!

 

If you have a tape player in your car you can use one of those tape adapters. I think it messes with the sound a bit, but sound is never great in cars anyway.

 

iPod also has a lot of other great features to boot.

 

Smart Playlists are super cool!

[offramp]

I received a 10G ipod for Christmas. I love the thing. Hardly play a CD anymore.

 

As for other mp3 players: yes, I know they're cheaper, but they're also an afterthought. Apple set out to do this from the starting block; the result is a fantastic unit that looks beautiful and sounds GREAT. (Yes, I like my stuff to look good. If I have to interact with it on a daily basis, I want it to look good.) Yes, I pay a little more, but I have turnkey interactivity with my Apple stuff, and it's worth it.

Using it as a transfer hard drive helps, too.

 

I just returned the second of two of a certain JVC car stereo to feature a 1/8" mini input jack on the front faceplate; unfortunately, Super, I can't remember the model number. Why did I return them? BOTH had faceplate malfunctions. One right after the other. Now, I'm sure that many of you out there have JVC stuff that is truly "Just Very Cool". My experience, lately, is "Just Very Crappy". I ended up with a Panasonic that I didn't really want--really because the finish on it is chrome, and I just think that's a bit over-the-top--but I'll be installing it (probably) tomorrow and I'll let you know. (Like many other, tho, it has aux inputs on the back, which doesn't bother me...I'll do a custom install.)

 

The FM transmitter units suck ass. I bought the all-in-one unit from DLO, the one that plugs in to your lighter socket and has the built-in LCD display for your frequency selector. For starters, the tolerances on the lighter adapter part were SO tight that the damn thing broke the lighter socket out of its place in the dash panel. I had to go to a junkyard and buy another dash panel for about $50. Just what I needed.

The transmission of the signal was there, but had that really crappy "not-quite-tuned-in" sound from the days of rotary-tuned radios, when you had the signal just to the side of the ideal tune-in. The high end breaks up on sibilance and peaks, like "s" and cymbals. Unacceptable.

(I sent a polite e-mail to the customer service department at DLO, and was very thorough about telling them why I was returning it before I returned it. Not a single acknowledgement. Screw 'em.)

 

Hope this helps.

[Ren.]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

A portable "radio station" that only plays my record collection.

Can you play your own voice overs, too?

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

I use it in Shuffle mode, so I never know what's coming next; plus, the AAC compression format actually sounds pretty great - much better than mp3, IMO.

Seriously, it seems there's a lot of happy iPod users 'round here. It's definetely on my wish list!

[offramp]

Originally posted by Rensonic:

Can you play your own voice overs, too?

Why, yes...yes, you can. I have an mp3 file of my VO work on the iPod; I can check my voice and mix on other systems from time to time, make sure my ears are still good.

[deanmass]

I have a mini iPod now..I love it.

 

I had a 5 GB, which I loved as well, but as soon as the mini's came out, I wanted one due to the smaller size. I have a circle of friends who own about 10 between them. They love them.

 

I have owned an Archos ( big clunky, functional...), a Creative Nomad ( big, but pretty cool), and couple ram based ones ( totally sucked), and my son has a Dell DJ15 that I got for him. The dell is actually pretty cool, but it is not as 'slick' as an iPod, but I'd consider it if I was a PC user primarily. The iPod has the most elegant look and interface, but it does come at a premium price.

 

Unless you are totally strapped for cash, buy an iPod. I think an iPod is worth the extra $100 bucks,

[Anderton]

Are there any MP3 players that DON'T insert a silence at track markers? That really sucks for CDs of DJ mixes that are continuous, but have track markers inserted. Ditto live music.

[Salyphus]

I don't think it's so much that they 'insert' silence, as that they don't actively remove it. Silence/noise is added by the encoding process, isn't it? They will have to analyze the audio files and find the gaps, and have the next track pre-buffered to begin playing. This should definitely be doable though, in my opinion, and I also think it's important. I should think if they can add games (cool but not important) they should be able to do this.

 

That is definitely a tick against the iPod, and I hope they address this at some point with a firmware upgrade. I think all MP3 players share this problem though, which the possible exception of the Rio Karma.

[Dasher]

If all you want is a music player, the iPod, while WAY too expensive, IMO, is a decent box. AAC is a good compression format, definitely superior to MP3.

 

But as a professional box, it sux bigtime!

 

I play with a duo, and we use the iPod to play backing tracks. I have a full-blown studio, he has a small setup. We used to play on a Roland SC-88 Sound Canvas, and most of our sequences are written for that, but I have a full-on Giga setup, plus multiple synths, and create much more complex tracks.

 

The primary problem is that I can't simply give him the tracks (he runs the boxes during the gig) because Apple, in their infinite wisdom and paranoia, have crippled the unit by not allowing it to operate on different machines. In order to get my tracks onto his computer I either have to give him AIFF files on CD or AAC files, which I transmit via thumbdrive. But why can't we just copy them from the iPod to the computer (or the other iPod? Because Steve Jobs assumes we're thieves and pirates, and won't let that happen!

 

The other issue is that the iPod sometimes just stops in the middle of a song - no warning, just goes into pause...

 

And have you checked out the cost of a replacement battery???

 

Dasher (disappointed once again with Apple's policies and design criteria)

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by offramp:

Originally posted by Rensonic:

Can you play your own voice overs, too?

Why, yes...yes, you can. I have an mp3 file of my VO work on the iPod;

Me, too.

 

dB

[Salyphus]

Originally posted by Dasher:

If all you want is a music player, the iPod, while WAY too expensive, IMO, is a decent box. AAC is a good compression format, definitely superior to MP3.

 

But as a professional box, it sux bigtime!

 

I play with a duo, and we use the iPod to play backing tracks. I have a full-blown studio, he has a small setup. We used to play on a Roland SC-88 Sound Canvas, and most of our sequences are written for that, but I have a full-on Giga setup, plus multiple synths, and create much more complex tracks.

 

The primary problem is that I can't simply give him the tracks (he runs the boxes during the gig) because Apple, in their infinite wisdom and paranoia, have crippled the unit by not allowing it to operate on different machines. In order to get my tracks onto his computer I either have to give him AIFF files on CD or AAC files, which I transmit via thumbdrive. But why can't we just copy them from the iPod to the computer (or the other iPod? Because Steve Jobs assumes we're thieves and pirates, and won't let that happen!

 

The other issue is that the iPod sometimes just stops in the middle of a song - no warning, just goes into pause...

 

And have you checked out the cost of a replacement battery???

 

Dasher (disappointed once again with Apple's policies and design criteria)

You can use the iPod as a portable hard drive if you use FireWire.

 

You can also copy songs from the iPod, you just can't do it with iTunes. There are all kinds of shareware and freeware products out there. They have to have some DRM there to appease the record labels, but it's easy to get around it if you need to for legit reasons.

 

Never had the pause problem, maybe you need to reset it or something?

 

I think it's $99 to replace the battery. Or you can get AppleCare for $59. 3d party service plans like CompUSA's will apparently even replace the entire unit with the latest model if the battery dies within the covered period.

 

Hope some of that might be useful.

[digibird]

To accommodate your need for .mp3 in the car, you can buy a head unit that is .mp3 capable (mine is an Alpine). You burn CDs of .mp3s (around 8 albums worth of songs per disc at a 192 bit rate). The Alpine's LCD displays folder and song names. Kinda cool.

[Rog]

I've had the old 5 gig iPod for 18 months now and I couldn't live without it .. battery is fine too.

 

I use a cassette adapter for the car and it works OK, the sound isn't great but it does the job.

 

One thing I would recommend it upgrading the ear buds to the ones with rubber inserts, they're much more pleasant to wear than the plastic ones.

 

I've seen a few other players like the Dell one but they don't come close to the all-round ease of use and great design of the iPod.

 

Buy one!

[Rog]

So insightful I posted it twice

[offramp]

Originally posted by Anderton:

Are there any MP3 players that DON'T insert a silence at track markers? That really sucks for CDs of DJ mixes that are continuous, but have track markers inserted. Ditto live music.

Craig, it's a little bit of work, but you can manipulate this in iTunes. You can do a few tracks, or set it as a global thing.

I'd think this would be a necessity when loading Frank Zappa into your iPod. I can't remember silence between tracks on any of Frank's vinyl.

 

Another thing I like about the iPod/Tunes configuration is that if your library gets bigger than your iPod's size, you can make playlists and download only those. I found this out not too long ago when I realized that I needed to stop stuffing CD's into my desktop's library so I could have a gig or so left for file transfer; along comes 'playlist loading', and I was set. It's a preference setting that you can create whenever your iPod is connected to the desktop (or wherever your library is).

The other thing that's helpful about the playlist loading feature is directly related to my listening habits...I've got stuff in my library (and thus, on my iPod) that I never listen to; using the iPod has helped me to weed out some of the stuff that doesn't quite tip my tastes anymore. So, I can use playlist loading to keep my current tastes active, and still preserve other stuff that I listen to once in a great while.

I use the highest setting of AAC available. I get fewer songs in there, but let's face it...I have no true need for 3,500 songs at my fingertips, because I doubt very seriously there are 3,500 songs that I like. And as far as the quality vs CD or whatever...bogus argument, IMHO. Especially after a little incident a couple of days ago. I was listening to something on the iPod--Sting (or some variation of), most likely; might've been Jellyfish or Metheny; in any case, something I've listened to probably a million times--and I heard parts I had never heard before. My jaw almost dropped.

[Groovepusher Sly]

The iPod is great. The iPod is extremely good at what it is intended to do, be an mp3 player. It also looks and feels good while doing it. The iPod wasn't designed as a "professional recording device", or game machine.

Certain things and devices really only NEED to do what they were DESIGNED TO DO. I like a hammer that's just a hammer, my Clavinet only makes Clavinet sounds, you really shouldn't try to put more than 2 people in a 2 seat sports car, and on and on.

I think I would probably use a CD player for backing tracks on a live gig.

I have a Maxtor portable FireWire drive for transferring whatever.

It's nice and convenient that the iPod hard drive can be used to store stuff other than music, but that's not what I'll be using mine for.

What I'd like to know is, if anybody knows any details about the Volkswagen iPod hookup? There was what looked like a cradle you could sit the iPod in, who made that stereo?

 

Sly

[FrankieP]

Originally posted by Anderton:

Are there any MP3 players that DON'T insert a silence at track markers? That really sucks for CDs of DJ mixes that are continuous, but have track markers inserted. Ditto live music.

I might be wrong but I think this will always be a problem with the MP3 format. There is one MP3 player that I know of that advertises "gapless playback" but in order to do this you have to use Ogg Vorbis instead of MP3. The player is the Rio Karma if i'm not mistaken. I haven't tried it though.

I have the Philips HDD120 which i'm very happy with. 20 gigs, able to record via optical, analog line in, or built in mic. The software sucks though.

[Dasher]

think it's $99 to replace the battery.

My point exactly - I can buy rechargable batteries all day long for under $20. Just another significant profit center for Apple.

 

The iPod wasn't designed as a "professional recording device", or game machine.

Certain things and devices really only NEED to do what they were DESIGNED TO DO. I like a hammer that's just a hammer, my Clavinet only makes Clavinet sounds, you really shouldn't try to put more than 2 people in a 2 seat sports car, and on and on.

I think I would probably use a CD player for backing tracks on a live gig.

What was it designed to do? Play music tracks. And it seems to work while jogging, rock climing, making mad passionate love on the couch; why can't it just sit there and do its job? There isn't nearly as much vibration reaching the box where it sits as there is in a decent jog.

 

I agree, it wasn't designed to be a professional recording device, but for PLAYBACK, it should function as advertised. (And I have to admit, i was not crazy about the idea in the first place, but because I feel it's too much for too little. But the option of CDs is WAY too clumsy, and we've already spent years with a midi file player and SC-88. CDs, with a couple hundred songs, you're spending your time playing hide-and-seek, on the iPod, they're all there, and you can create set lists, special groups like power ballads, country, jazz, big band, etc.)

 

And using it as a hard disk is a pain as well, the songs you import in that mode won't show up in the playlists.

 

So for a) Apple freaks (like my partner) who believe Steve Jobs is God and anything Apple is wonderful, or b) people whose lifestyle includes carryng around a headphone-oriented device to constantly listen to music - (a hell of a lot better than a boom box!) this is a great toy.

 

But at those prices, I expect a tool, and a sharp one at that.

 

I used to love Apple Computer - my third computer was an Apple II,back when they were a cool company to deal with. But now, with their strictly-for-profit attitude, I have to insist on getting my money's worth. That's why my studio has 7 PCs and only one Mac.

 

And the smallest iPod I could find that was compatible with my partner's 40G version...

 

Dasher

[Salyphus]

Originally posted by Dasher:

think it's $99 to replace the battery.

My point exactly - I can buy rechargable batteries all day long for under $20. Just another significant profit center for Apple.

You can buy them all day long and replace them all day long too. That $99 is not just for the battery, it includes the service of doing the replacement. If you want, you can do it yourself, there is plenty of info out there.

 

Originally posted by Dasher:

And using it as a hard disk is a pain as well, the songs you import in that mode won't show up in the playlists.

That's not a big deal. If they allowed that their DRM would go out the window. And there are ways to do it, like I said check out the shareware and freeware that is availiable. I would post some links, but I'm sure you know how to use Google as well as I do

[offramp]

Originally posted by Dasher:

think it's $99 to replace the battery.

My point exactly - I can buy rechargable batteries all day long for under $20. Just another significant profit center for Apple.

I'd rather spend $99 every couple of years than $20 batteries all day long, frankly.

And have you made sure your iPod's software is the latest? This may have something to do with your playback problem.Sometimes, it helps to wipe the iPod clean--just like any other hard drive--and reinstall everything. If your music is stored on a desktop or laptop, this shouldn't be much work.

[Dasher]

Offramp, yes, I have the latest, have restored the sysztem seferal times (kin fact, mostg of the time the only way I can get it to appear on the desktop is to do a full Restore, then set it to hard disk mode, restart the computer, then let it re-initialize as an iPod and reload everything from iTunes...

 

But to be fair, this weekend I discovered that it may be my Firewire port that is causing the problem - since the last restore, and changing port, it has come up several times. (I had changed ports previously, but was still running older system software.)

 

But it still occasionally stops in the middle of a performance...

 

And it's still too damn expensive!

 

Dasher

[offramp]

Double-check your Firewire software and see, too, if there are any firmware upgrades for your machine. That's about all I can think of, really...

[Groovepusher Sly]

Originally posted by Dasher:

I agree, it wasn't designed to be a professional recording device, but for PLAYBACK, it should function as advertised. (And I have to admit, i was not crazy about the idea in the first place, but because I feel it's too much for too little. But the option of CDs is WAY too clumsy, and we've already spent years with a midi file player and SC-88. CDs, with a couple hundred songs, you're spending your time playing hide-and-seek, on the iPod, they're all there, and you can create set lists, special groups like power ballads, country, jazz, big band, etc.)

 

Seems like you need something that is a cross between an Alesis Masterlink and a Laptop with FireWire drives.

 

And using it as a hard disk is a pain as well, the songs you import in that mode won't show up in the playlists.

 

What Sal O' The Earth said.

 

So for Apple freaks this is a great toy. But at those prices, I expect a tool, and a sharp one at that.

 

Ever seen a $200 Claw Hammer? I have.

 

I used to love Apple Computer.... But now, with their strictly-for-profit attitude, I have to insist on getting my money's worth. That's why my studio has 7 PCs and only one Mac.

 

If they weren't for profit, there wouldn't be an iPod for YOU to complain about.

 

And the smallest iPod I could find that was compatible with my partner's 40G version...

 

You can get the Masterlink with a 40G Hard Drive. And when I mentioned using a CD player, one that plays mp3's was what I had in mind. I know of a couple of DJ's using iPods professionally, I know a couple using laptops, so there's a solution out there, it just may not be the iPod for you.

Sly

[Cowbell]

I just bought an iPod a couple months ago. I do NOT know how I lived without this thing. Its a 15 GB model that I bought off the Apple website for $250, not including the shipping cost. With shipping it cost $294 though.

 

The thing has some pretty decent games, and you can leave notes on it. Many useful features, including a calender. iTrip is amazingly cool for $30. Broadcasts a signal at the desired frequency so you can listen on the radio, in the car. Crystal clear for me at about 10 feet.

 

BTW, since I am a student, Apple.com offers discounts. $50 for iPods and eMacs, and up to $200 on the G5 and Powerbooks. Lemme know if ya'll need anything...

[Rod S]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008VFCR.01-A23NLORBGXOLEO.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

 

I have one of these suckers... I use it for jogging. I just stuff into the pocket in my shorts and I don't even feel it's there, that's how small and lightweight it is (IPods cost a fortune here in Brazil...) Works pretty well, not exactly high quality, but it sounds good for what I need it for.

 

I can't live without this thing nowadays. It's great when I'm going to rehersal and show people ideas, I record at home and transfer the mp3 into this thing (dead simple) and just plug the output to the desk at the studio.