where02190 Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 As of the release of PT6.4, Digidesign has announced they will no longer release updates for the 001, forcing thousands of 001 owners into shelling out $700 to "exchange" their 001 for the 002R, and if they have not already, purchase OSX Panther ($129) as well as upgrade their plugins (potentially thousands of $$$) as well as upgrade their computers to run OSX Panther. The 002r, while an improvement in converters and preamps, leaves alot ot be desired. There are numourous complaints of the pre's being too hot to handle many mics, with no pad switch. The +48 switch, along with the +4/-10db selector switch is ON THE BACK of the rackounted unit. This Protools user will certainly be looking elseware for new hardware and software when we fel we must upgrade our current 001 set-up. I suspect many others will follow suite. IMHO this is a very bad marketing move for Digi. Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Looks like they're trying to squeeze 001 users like they do with the full blown PT rig users. I'm not sure this demographic will stand for that though. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 There is one legit reason though - G5's will never work with the 001 - apparently the voltage or something on the 001 is totally incompatible with G5's... The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Check out the TGOR forum, Nursey-boy. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmiii Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I would like to upgrade but right now the 001 still runs fine and fits my needs. So I feel no pressure just to have the next "new shiny box" syndrome that seems to plague everyone. When I am ready to upgrade I will be seriously considering other systems. I am a bit peeved that most of my plugs are not going to run on a 002. "I never would have seen it, if I didn't already believe it" Unknown http://www.SongCritic.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Not a big surpise. That's Digi's Modus Operandi. To keep their customers buying hardware. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I'm not going to play that constant upgrade game. My Digi001 works great right now. I bypass those horrid converters, and it sounds fine. If this is their idea of support, I'll consider other options when I do finally have to upgrade. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techristian Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 This is just history repeating itself. Ever hear of "SoftSynth"? Dan http://musicinit.com/pvideos.html TEACHMEDRUMS.COM My Music Videos RED PILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I'd love to say I'm surprised, but it's just not surprising. It's disappointing because you always hope that a company can somehow learn and put a little more into their support and service. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I am not suprised at all by this, because Digi is making the transition from USB to Firewire; the next M-Box, I am told will be Firewire, not USB so it makes sense from a topology standpoint to have one standardised interface protocol across your product line. Digi is making the right move here IMHO. On a related note, when all those USB audio interfaces started hitting about 3 years ago, I knew then that they were at best a transitional technology and that external audio interfaces would eventually go Firewire; IEEE-1394 is a much better suited protocol for multi channel 24/96 audio streaming, so I skipped the "usb audio revolution" and am very glad I waited because the new Firewire interfaces are so much better at what we do! This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by mikegrijak: when all those USB audio interfaces started hitting about 3 years ago, I knew then that they were at best a transitional technology.Firewire; IEEE-1394 is a much better suited protocol for multi channel 24/96 audio streamingActually,the USB 2.0 spec is actually slighty faster and has slighty more bandwidth then IEE-1394 making both a transitional technology until something more suitable comes along.PCI is still much faster and has more bandwidth than both USB and IEE-1394 and PCI-X here I see both of those solutions as hobbyist portable solutions at best.To me FW is perfect for things like portable HD's and things like the Powercore,but not really serious enough for multiple Pro streaming(input streaming cut in half,bandwidth bottlenecks ect.). "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 It is not the bandwidth that is at issue between USB and firewire, it is the way in which the protocals handle the packets of data. Firewire is the superior technology because of the manner in which the data flows through the pipe. There is a tech paper out there somewhere that details this; I will have to look it up and post it. This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by mikegrijak: Firewire is the superior technology Maybe on paper but in reality both protocols are not far apart.We need a new i/o technology for serious audio streaming.Iv'e already experienced the IEE-1394 ceiling in real use so I know first hand the limitations.It already taxes the CPU more than PCI as it is.And bandwidth is an issue. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Alndlnbot: Originally posted by mikegrijak: Firewire is the superior technology Maybe on paper but in reality both protocols are not far apart.We need a new i/o technology for serious audio streaming.Iv'e already experienced the IEE-1394 ceiling in real use so I know first hand the limitations.It already taxes the CPU more than PCI as it is.And bandwidth is an issue.If I may ask, how many simultaneous channels are we talking about in your case, and at what resolution and bit depth? You are the first person I have talked to up to now that has said they have issues with Firewire as relates to audio. How fast is your CPU, by the way? Thanks for the replies! This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by nursers: There is one legit reason though - G5's will never work with the 001 - apparently the voltage or something on the 001 is totally incompatible with G5's... Originally posted by Rog: Check out the TGOR forum, Nursey-boy.Rog, I'm not sure I understand your response to nursers. Is there reason to dispute what he wrote? My impression was the same as his. I'd go to the TGOR forum if I knew what it was. Thanks. === Also, it should be noted that Pro Tools|24 MIX Systems have been "end-of-lifed" as well: System Development for Pro Tools|24 MIX Systems Coming to an End Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the main reason the 001 was discontinued, is because it runs on a PCI card which does not have a matching slot in the G5's. That, and the 002R is essentially the "update" (and it's not that much more $$). My 001 system runs beautifully, but I wouldn't waste a G5 on it; nor would I waste a 002R on my 350 G3. The 002R/G5 rig will make a great new "truck" for the garage, but I'm keeping the old "truck" too. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I saw this one coming, so I'm not really surprised. Same thing will happen to HD / Accel eventually. And while it does suck, Digidesign's certainly not alone in this sort of thing. One example: Apple buys Emagic. Emagic discontinues PC support for Logic. Sure, you could get a crossgrade of the program from PC to Mac, but they didn't offer you a discount on the new Mac, were not about to help you in crossgrading your various other plug ins and programs and that total price tag was going to cost at least as much as what Nick was describing - PLUS the cost of a new computer - just to stay with the same program. I went through a similar situation with Emagic many years ago when they discontinued Logic on the Atari. A friend of mine brought over an old computer case and power supply that he wanted to use to put a new mobo and CPU in. Wrong form factor. The "standard" had changed. Time for a new case and PSU. Like Windows 98se? MS has discontinued all support for it. The same thing will happen to XP and OS X eventually. The Digi 001 has been out for what? Four years or so? That seems about average for the "supported" lifecycle of most of this digital stuff - 3 - 5 years or so, with computers going "out" faster than that. It does indeed still "work", unless, as Nursers pointed out, you want to try running it on a new G5, in which case, you're out of luck. That one was Apple's decision, and while it affects Digidesign, it's not really their "fault". At least they DO offer you some sort of exchange program. While that's good for Digidesign insofar as it helps them to continue to sell / move hardware (and I really DO think Digidesign views themselves as more of a hardware as opposed to software company - just as Apple does), it's also "better than nothing" for the customers. And "nothing" is what a LOT of companies leave you with when they discontinue support for a product. After all, if you decide to sell your 001, you're not going to get very much for it at this point, and you're still going to have to purchase something else to replace it - and chances are that THAT device will have the same obsolescence issues a few years from now. Someone was questioning some of my gear decisions not too long ago on one of the forums. They thought I should be running an SSL, or at least be using PT HD. And I could go that route, but my market doesn't support that move - IMO, it would be a bad business decision. Spend what you have to on your interfaces, but IMO, the best place to spend the majority of your moolah is on preamps, compressors, speakers and microphones - the stuff that doesn't go out of style as quickly. Does it suck when something like this happens? Absolutely. Is it a hassle? You bet. But as I said, Digidesign isn't alone in this sort of thing. It happens with pretty much everything / every company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: It does indeed still "work", unless, as Nursers pointed out, you want to try running it on a new G5, in which case, you're out of luck. That one was Apple's decision, and while it affects Digidesign, it's not really their "fault".Nice excuse from Digi.What about windows users. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Well, Windows users can still use the 001 on the latest PC's... they just won't have any future software updates / upgrades. How long should a company have to continue to support a product with new software versions? I don't have the answer for that, but I do feel that at some point, they have no choice but to use their (finite) development resources for the newer products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 FWIW, the Digi 001 was released for Mac OS in late 1999 and for Windows in early 2000. For more info, click on the link below: December 1999 Digi 001 Review Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by Henchman: Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: It does indeed still "work", unless, as Nursers pointed out, you want to try running it on a new G5, in which case, you're out of luck. That one was Apple's decision, and while it affects Digidesign, it's not really their "fault".Nice excuse from Digi.What about windows users.And what about blackface ADAT owners? Or Paris users? Had Fairlight actually not come out of bankruptcy, what would have happened to people such as yourself? As I said, it does suck - but Digidesign isn't alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail Jon Rogut Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 As an 002 and HD Accel owner.. I sure wouldn't want my software to be crippled or delayed because of older technology owners. Rail Rail Jon Rogut Recording Engineer www.platinumsamples.com Engineered Drums for BFD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiRoller Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Sorry for the stupid question, but how is it that future software updates of the XP version won't work on the 001? I'm keeping my 001 until the next generation comes out... 003 anyone? my band: Mission 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren. Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by where02190: As of the release of PT6.4, Digidesign has announced they will no longer release updates for the 001, forcing thousands of 001 owners into shelling out $700 to "exchange" their 001 for the 002R, and if they have not already, purchase OSX Panther ($129) as well as upgrade their plugins (potentially thousands of $$$) as well as upgrade their computers to run OSX Panther.As far as I know, same thing will happen with the MIX Systems... Originally posted by where02190: The 002r, while an improvement in converters and preamps, leaves alot ot be desired. As a 002R user (and former 001 user) I have not (a lot of) complaints. Who Put The ' M ' In MySpace? don\'t_click | day_job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by Geoff Grace: Originally posted by nursers: There is one legit reason though - G5's will never work with the 001 - apparently the voltage or something on the 001 is totally incompatible with G5's... Originally posted by Rog: Check out the TGOR forum, Nursey-boy.Rog, I'm not sure I understand your response to nursers. Is there reason to dispute what he wrote? My impression was the same as his. I'd go to the TGOR forum if I knew what it was. Thanks. === Also, it should be noted that Pro Tools|24 MIX Systems have been "end-of-lifed" as well: System Development for Pro Tools|24 MIX Systems Coming to an End Best, GeoffHeya Geoff Rog was actually alluding to The Gods of Rock forum, where Rog and I have started collaborating on a song - he was just pointing me there for some files to download. The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by nursers: Heya Geoff Rog was actually alluding to The Gods of Rock forum, where Rog and I have started collaborating on a song - he was just pointing me there for some files to download. Thanks nursers! Good luck on your song. Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 posted by Rail Jon Rogut: As an 002 and HD Accel owner.. I sure wouldn't want my software to be crippled or delayed because of older technology owners.Excellent point. We have to sometimes put ourselves in the company's (and their clients) shoes, and realize that every $ spent on old systems is a $ taken away from developing the new ones. At a certain point one must move forward. Conversely, as a 001/G3 owner, I am very happy to look forward to an affordable upgrade path - 002/G5 - which is not such a huge jump as the one to HD would be. Before the 001 we didn't have ANY of these options except the full-blown TDM system, which was affordable to only the few. I think Digi is moving smart with the times and the technology on the market. Between the MBox, 002, and HD, they are pretty fairly spread out IRT various price points. And remember: Any PT session is cross-platform compatible with ALL of them. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by Curve Dominant: Before the 001 we didn't have ANY of these options except the full-blown TDM system, which was affordable to only the few.Eric, I think you may have forgotten about Digidesign's NuBus Session 8 (which evolved into Pro Tools Project). Posted at Toronto AES, May 1994 : Session 8: Digidesign's Multi-channel Digital Audio Production System used mainly in music production. Described as being the first affordable "studio in a box", this system offers on-board parametric EQ and stereo panning. Tracks can be grouped like a traditional consol, and editing or cutting and pasting can be performed referenced to a specific track or free form. MIDI integration is available by plugging into an external box.While not native systems, Session 8 and Pro Tools Project were low-end relatively inexpensive offerings from Digidesign. I purchased one in April 1994 and used it until May 2000, when I replaced it with a Digi 001. Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Explain to me why a system that is run native, should have a problem talkig to any particular box? basically all an 001 is is one big key protection unit. It's an I/O box, not a dedicated processing unit. Basically all digi is really doing, is removing the code that enables the software to recognize the big "key". Thus forcing it's 001 userbase to upgarde unnecessarilly. So when the next cool features become available, you'lll have to buy a new interface, and throw the old one out, as it will be worthless. Oh, and Mac users get to buy a whole new computer on top of it. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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