cassdad Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Based on some of the positive reviews in this forum and elsewhere, I purchased a pair of brand new Yamaha DXR10 powered speakers for use with my MOXF8. To my amazement, upon testing them on arrival, BOTH of them, brand new out of the box, have a bad resonance / rattle on G#1 and G#2 with full-volume piano and bass tones. I obviously cannot live with that, and am returning them (going to try the QSC K10.2 next). But I can't believe that, with all the reviews I read, all of the people who have used them, and Yamaha being so particular with keyboard sound issues, that the DXR10's have such a bad resonance / design flaw, and that no one else noted this?! Has anyone else experienced this? [it's just those 2 notes only. Yes, I checked my gain staging, different sounds/patches.... it's definitely the speakers themselves... the back and insides attached to the back loudly vibrate at only those 2 frequencies. I otherwise love the sound out of them, and would keep them were it not for this fatal flaw.] Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piano39 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 It's entirely possible that the room that you are playing in has a resonant frequency around G#. Before you blame this on the speakers, I would try the speakers in another space. Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha AN200, Alesis Micron, Sonar X3, Arturia Microbrute, Behringer Model D, Yamaha UX-3 Acoustic Piano, assorted homemade synth modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 When I first got my K10 I was convinced that the grill was vibrating - sounded like it was coming from the grill. I eventually realized it was a cabinet door in the room. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Star_Guy Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Can you provide further details of just how you tested them? Did you feed white noise and then simply measure acoustically with a calibrated reference mic and spectrum analyzer? Did you use a sweepable signal generator? I own DXR-10's as well and have not encountered this at all. I would tend to think that you might have a problem with how or where the speakers are mounted, or otherwise experiencing some sort of sympathetic resonance from something else in close proximity? Until you resolve this, simply buying another set of speakers may not resolve the true issue. ---------------------------------------------------------- Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefDanG Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I own and use (a lot) a pair of DXR10s. Never had this problem. Professional musician = great source of poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Set them up in a different venue, and get back to us? Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Yup, did that.... it was assuredly the speaker itself. Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Agree and understand. I simply was playing notes chromatically up and down the scale...... vibration / rattle / resonance was only at those 2 notes, G#1 and G#2. I have 2 other sets of speakers in the room.... neither exhibit / invoke such noises. Also, I physically held each speaker in my arms while my wife played those notes, and I could easily hear and feel the rattle / vibration on the back panel of both brand new speakers. I would say I got a bad / defective one, but with exactly the same problem with both 2 new ones, and no other speakers exhibiting that noise, I don't know what else to think. I've ordered and will try the QSC K10.2 next.... they should arrive this week (from Sweetwater). Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I'm very interested in your K10.2 review, please post back. I didn't (don't) like K10s - too "shrill" in the mid-high freq band for my taste. The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 I'm very interested in your K10.2 review, please post back. I didn't (don't) like K10s - too "shrill" in the mid-high freq band for my taste. Yeah, I've heard the same thing. And I've rented K12's before, and did not like the sound of them at all. But I don't know what else to do.... hoping that the K10.2's, with a smaller speaker will be a "tighter" sound, and hoping that I can EQ out any "shrillness". Yes, will advise. Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Agree and understand. I simply was playing notes chromatically up and down the scale...... vibration / rattle / resonance was only at those 2 notes, G#1 and G#2. I have 2 other sets of speakers in the room.... neither exhibit / invoke such noises. Also, I physically held each speaker in my arms while my wife played those notes, and I could easily hear and feel the rattle / vibration on the back panel of both brand new speakers. I would say I got a bad / defective one, but with exactly the same problem with both 2 new ones, and no other speakers exhibiting that noise, I don't know what else to think. I've ordered and will try the QSC K10.2 next.... they should arrive this week (from Sweetwater). Just out of curiosity - were you able to determine what part of the back panel was rattling? External/internal, mounting, etc. A bunch of us early K10 adopters actually had problems with SOME 1/4 connecters not seating well in the jack and the vibration would cause some "farting" with the cable connector. Not suggesting that's what's going on here but I fixed my problem by using better connectors. I've had rattles in other speakers where you can find it just by touching different spots until it stops. My bass player recently had this issue on his bass cabinet and we stuffed some paper in there to stop it. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Star_Guy Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Agree and understand. I simply was playing notes chromatically up and down the scale...... vibration / rattle / resonance was only at those 2 notes, G#1 and G#2. I have 2 other sets of speakers in the room.... neither exhibit / invoke such noises. Also, I physically held each speaker in my arms while my wife played those notes, and I could easily hear and feel the rattle / vibration on the back panel of both brand new speakers. I would say I got a bad / defective one, but with exactly the same problem with both 2 new ones, and no other speakers exhibiting that noise, I don't know what else to think. I've ordered and will try the QSC K10.2 next.... they should arrive this week (from Sweetwater). Well I, too will be interested in hearing the results of your experience with the QSC K10.2 speakers once you receive them. Just one final question for you......did you experience this same resonant frequency response even after trying the DSP D-Contour switch located on the rear in all three positions? The built-in DSP is engaged in either FOH/MAIN or MONITOR positions and is off only in the center position. I would like to try to test this myself to see if I can duplicate this. ---------------------------------------------------------- Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 So.... I received the QSC K10.2's.... Bottom Line: I really can't find anything wrong with them, they do everything well, very powerful for their size, and very clean. So I'll probably keep them. But here's the rub: I'm wondering if several of you were right in questioning the source of the "buzz / rattle" (although I swear I held the speakers in my arms and felt and heard the buzz and it really seemed like it was coming from the Yamaha DXR10's......). So when I hooked up the QSC K10.2's... guess what?! There was the buzz, but this time I isolated it to buzzing glass panels in a nearby door! Stopped them from buzzing, and now crystal clear sound. So now I'm second=guessing myself, wishing I had kept the Yamaha DXR10's a bit longer rather than sending them back so quickly. Because although the QSC K10.2's are just fine in all ways... there is just some unexplainable "something" in the tone that I'm not in love with (for acoustic piano sound). The QSC's just don't seem as "soft" or "smooth" as the Yamaha's were, and the QSC's definitely become harsh when really pushing the volume to unrealistic levels, which is a mixed blessing, in that, if I really needed that much volume, I guess I would want it to really scream to cut through. But I don't recall the Yamaha's getting so harsh at high volume (but I could not live with that rattle). What I wish is that I could get the Yamaha's without the rattle, but I've already sent them back. Hmmm, what to do? The QSC's really have nothing wrong with them, and do everything well, and sound great, and plenty of power. Somehow, there's some intangible that makes me question the quality of tone for an acoustic grand piano sound. Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Dan: I did try pressing on different spots on the back, and could not get the buzz to stop. I also "pressed" on the XLR cable inputs, but that did not affect the buzz either. ugh. Agree and understand. I simply was playing notes chromatically up and down the scale...... vibration / rattle / resonance was only at those 2 notes, G#1 and G#2. I have 2 other sets of speakers in the room.... neither exhibit / invoke such noises. Also, I physically held each speaker in my arms while my wife played those notes, and I could easily hear and feel the rattle / vibration on the back panel of both brand new speakers. I would say I got a bad / defective one, but with exactly the same problem with both 2 new ones, and no other speakers exhibiting that noise, I don't know what else to think. I've ordered and will try the QSC K10.2 next.... they should arrive this week (from Sweetwater). Just out of curiosity - were you able to determine what part of the back panel was rattling? External/internal, mounting, etc. A bunch of us early K10 adopters actually had problems with SOME 1/4 connecters not seating well in the jack and the vibration would cause some "farting" with the cable connector. Not suggesting that's what's going on here but I fixed my problem by using better connectors. I've had rattles in other speakers where you can find it just by touching different spots until it stops. My bass player recently had this issue on his bass cabinet and we stuffed some paper in there to stop it. Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Every time I've had a problem with buzz or rattle at home, it's either been something nearby (poles, cabinet, etc) or a loose bit on the speaker itself. Cassad, keep in mind that your new purchase will likely sound decidedly different when you play live and your audience is at a distance. The QSCs (nor many similar) do near field well. Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 UPDATE: I've re-ordered the Yamaha DXR10s, and I'm holding onto the QSC K10.2s until the Yamahas arrive, so that I can then compare the Yamaha side-by-side with the QSCs (which is what I should have done in the 1st place). I'm paying for shipping, so this is going to cost me. But it's important to me to get the best sound I can (under 32 pounds) as I intend to keep these long-term. Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 FINAL DECISION UPDATE: I just spent the last 4 days, long hours, comparing the QSC K10.2 versus Yamaha DXR10 speakers. My main criteria is how they sound for amplification of the piano voice sounds for my Yamaha MOXF8 and Motif XS8. My preference is for the Yamaha DXR10's. I want the best acoustic piano sound I can get with a Yamaha digital piano, mostly for jazz-type mid-volume playing. Do not take this as a negative review of the QSC K10.2 speakers. They are really excellent. The Yamaha's simply sound slightly better for the piano sounds of my Yamaha keyboards. Perhaps Yamaha matched them better for that purpose. I also had other musicians listen to both. The choice was not unanimous. One immediately heard the QSC's as far better, hands-down no doubt! (He preferred their brightness.) Another found, as did I, the Yamaha EQ'ing particularly better suited for the Yamaha digital piano voices. I also have a personal preference for the Yamaha DXR10 styling format and less controls (which I do not need, and I also have no need for the additional QSC features). Accordingly, the Yamaha DXR10's won my grueling 4-day "shoot out"! Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 That is the only way to test speakers - head to head. You will have peace of mind because you went to the trouble. Just don't try a pair of RCF TT08a's... Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 That is the only way to test speakers - head to head. You will have peace of mind because you went to the trouble. Just don't try a pair of RCF TT08a's... Are they really that good?!? I considered it, but don't have a clue where to buy them, and how to hear them before buying them..... Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Yup. PM me if you want details. Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I have two DXR10s with my S90ES and MotifXF6 (sometimes the XF is slaved to the S90ES to produce a fatter piano sound) never have had any kind of issues. On one gig I play loud Springsteen piano and quiet piano- no rattles or resonance issues. Try turning the +6 output gain down to zero in the Utility menu of the MOXF- this could be causing distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 I have two DXR10s with my S90ES and MotifXF6 (sometimes the XF is slaved to the S90ES to produce a fatter piano sound) never have had any kind of issues. On one gig I play loud Springsteen piano and quiet piano- no rattles or resonance issues. Try turning the +6 output gain down to zero in the Utility menu of the MOXF- this could be causing distortion. Thanks - but I'm not having any rattle / buzz problems now that they sent me the replacement 2nd pair. Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” Portable Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano); Motion Sound KP-612SX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.