Christian musicians - interesting link

[Magical Pig]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by techristian: [QB]QUOTE FROM MAGICAL SWINE What, is that supposed to hurt my feelings? [QUOTE]Originally posted by techristian: It is no worse than when LIBERALS burn the U.S. flag. Of course liberals can call that "freedom of speech". Of course now that New York is in a mess after 9/11 everyone is now talking "patriotic" and so burning the flag would be "politically incorrect" right now, but it will happen again. You can be sure. And Pastor Brock has every right to be as ignorant and stupid as he wants, just like the flag burners..Thats why its a great place to be. But that guy should really be removed from the gene pool for the good of society IMHO. [QUOTE]Originally posted by techristian: Jesus said "I am THE WAY", but don't believe my word for it. Yeah, and Jim Morrison told us all that he was the lizard king. Do you REALLY think he could do anything? As a matter of fact, at least we know that Morrison actually said he was the lizard king. With Jesus your taking someone elses word that he said it. You could quote 5 or more other religions saying their guy is the real top banana too... IT DOESNT MAKE IT SO JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE LATCHED ON TO ONE PARTICULAR STORY. Believe anything you want, just dont expect me to go along with what i see as a misguided point of view. [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: Magical Pig ]

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster: [b]I have no doubt that Kelsey and Tiffany may well be playing softball somewhere right now, Phil...[/b][/quote] And having a great time at that! :) It helps a great deal to know that God has a special place set aside for children like ours. In many ways, Kelsey is a far better person than I shall ever be... as I'm sure Tiffany is as well. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://www.ssrstudio.com pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by techristian: [b]Of course liberals can call that "freedom of speech". [/b][/quote] By this statement you're essentially saying you prefer a restriction of the freedom to burn the flag, is this correct? [b]is now talking "patriotic" and so burning the flag would be "politically incorrect" right now, but it will happen again. You can be sure.[/b] If people don't want to burn the flag today, that is a reflection of the spirit that people are in. IF that changes - which it may or may not - *there's a reason for that change*. Restricting the action of burning the flag - WHICH IS NOT A CONSECRATED ICON OF GOD, BY THE WAY, defeats the sole purpose of putting *any weight in the flag as a symbol*. It *is* a *symbol*; part of the intent of the symbol ironically enough includes destroying that symbol. The activity of destroying the symbol is also the same action of expressing what the symbol is about. To prevent that from occuring demeans what the flag stands for.

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster: [b] The most evil songs of all time are, in no particular order: Freebird Cocaine Gimme Three Steps Turn the Page Old Time Rock and Roll House of the Rising Sun Proud Mary Wipeout Sweet Home Alabama Wonderful Tonight Oh yeah, and speaking of Zeppelin...how 'bout... STAIRWAY!!! [/b][/quote] You forgot 'Mony Mony'. I still wake up in a cold sweat some nights dreaming I'm playing that abomination... The rest of your list pretty much hit the mark. You get an X-tra point for including 'Wipe out'. As a drummer, I cut my teeth on that song, but if I have to play it again I might slash my wrists!!! :eek:

[Tedster]

HAHAHA...Mony Mony, yep. But, I think one reason so many people continue to request "House of the Rising Sun" or "Wipeout" is because they have an Uncle Bubba who either "plays" guitar or drums, and Uncle Bubba can play that song, and they want to see if you're as good as Uncle Bubba. And Phil, I have to disagree with "Billy, Don't Be A Hero" and the rest of those. Yep, terrible songs...but they died a natural death. These other songs haven't. People don't come up at the club and request "Billy, Don't be a Hero" five hundred times a night. :D

[lovesinger]

"Come on over baby, whole lotta shakin' goin on." --[i]Jerry Lee Lewis, Jimmy Swaggart's first cousin [really][/i] Well we're starting the new year off with a rockin' good hot exchange on a musicplayer favorite for some time -- "religion". (Face it, guys, religion [and anti-religion, which is itself a fervently energetic and vociferous religion is a key part of life and music. I'll mostly share where others haven't to avoid redundancy. I've seen that FACTS don't sit well with those whose views are cemented in their "enlightened" intellectual imaginations, but maybe brother Magical and others so-leaning will give facts a shot or two in 2002 (hey, that rhymes!). And forgive me if I speak with directness minus nice prefaces for space and time's sake. Since as an intelligent human you surely wouldn't force enduring ignorance [no offense, that's about knowledge acquired, not mental ability] on yourself any more than you'd let others force it on you, consider the following... [b]Quote by Magical Pig: Yeah, we REALLY need another way to sub-divide musicians...[/b] [destructive division is Satan's way in this world ... peaceful unity is God's. Too simplistic, huh? Occasionally a common-interest forum "division" (where no one is excluded BTW) is a key way to exercise that unity.] [b]Quote by Magical Pig: Wouldnt want any of those jews, muslims, hindus,...to chime in on the good ol' CHRISTIAN forum page...[/b] From the beginning, Christianity has never been exclusivist, but even in its strictly Judaic beginnings has commanded its followers to embrace, love and provide for those outside its believers' groups (called "strangers"), with representative commands (you can confirm these) like Numbers 15:15, Numbers 15:27-29, and _ [quote]Leviticus 19:33-34 (And if a stranger travels with you in your land, you shall not vex him. But the stranger that lives among you shall be [thought of and appreciated] as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.[/quote] Another distinct difference in Christianity is the way it treats its fallen and wounded. Instead of a to-hell-with-em-kick-em-out-or-shoot-the-reprobate-infidels attitude attending skewed religions, we're commanded that "if a believer be overtaken in a fault..redeem him gently, considering [ourselves]" and how we'd like to be treated in that situation.{Galatians 6:1}. By the way, a Christian who doesn't like Jews has got a BIIIG problem...we owe everything to the Jewish heritage -- JESUS was/is Jewish!! [b]Quote by Magical Pig: the spell check wanted to capitalize all the religions named above EXCEPT muslims,scientologists, agnostics and atheists..Hmmmmmm][/b] Well Now you're being silly. :) ...you may as well complain about UBB capitalizing your town of Saratoga Springs (or did you do that?) [b]Quote by Magical Pig: No offense to you guys, but I hate religion and all the people that die and feel they have the right to kill over it.[/b] Ahhh! Here's evidence that you ARE thinking on a higher plane, and if that were the case with wars your point might have merit. But YOU WILL BE SHOCKED AT THE [b]FACTS[/b] ABOUT WAR AND RELIGION!!! Digest the following capsule, then do your own research for more FACTUAL info sorely lacking in anti-religion rhetoric [I scanned a pile of refutations in 2 minutes from a 10-second Google search]. ------------------------------------------- As a History Professor at a Junior college I challenge my classes to comment on the following statement: Organized religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause. Almost all the students raise their hands in agreement. I then demand that they provide dead bodies as evidence. They usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might of heard of but in none of their examples can they come up with a million deaths. (Some scholars used to teach that the Thirty Years' War in Germany resulted in 8 million deaths, but modern scholars have demonstrated it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.) I then point out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular ideologies. I then ask them who is the “baddest” of them all. Most guess Hitler. I then tell them that he is rated #3. Some then guess Stalin and I inform them that most scholars place him at #2 with 20 million killed. Almost no one gets #1 who, of course, is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. I then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical proponent of Social Darwinism. All of these ideologies are based on atheistic systems. ------------------------------------------- [b]Quote by Magical Pig: Thanks, I feel better now.[/b] You do? Hmmmm. Doesn't take much head-in-the-sand-with-my-own-uninformed-view flaming to please you, does it? Hope you grow from out of it, friend. [b]Quote by Super 8: ..there ARE people out there who practice real Christianity. They just don't make the headlines.[/b] Many, many, many ... [b]Quote by Tedster: Quite well put, Phil. I find it rather amusing that if someone put up "Buddhist music forum available"...people would respond "Cool..." but somehow when someone puts up "Christian music forum" some respond in a negative manner.[/b] Super on target. Play it again, Ted. Somebody didn't hear ya. [b]Tom Capasso: For me, I've found that it helps to talk to people that feel like you do, and have the challenges that you do. ... I think of it as encouragement, which we all need at times. I've also found that I can be challenged by people that think differently. All the groups I mentioned above have said or done things that made me think, whether it was about the things we had in common or the ways we are different. That's what work, family, church, forums, etc. have given me just as much as encouragement.[/b] Tom, you're a Nobel laureate, right? Thanks for the GREAT comments! ViLo, we've got to meet and greet ... we're in the same town! [b]Cereal: Musically speaking it's a different world in the church than a nightclub or concert hall. Different protocal altogether.[/b] You can say THAT again! Even the world at large knows music has a power to create change in human realms, intra-mentally and extra-mentally. In thirty years I've experienced and seen music in church foster lasting reunitings of feuding family members, physical healing, reversing emotional psychoses and too much more to mention.] Quote by gbtank@home.com:[b] Whatever your personal religious views may be, it's very hard to argue against Christian music being treated any differently than other musical genres, as far as having it's own specialized forums. Unless you have a personal bone to pick, which is a whole other issue, isn't it? Regards, Brian T[/b] The p-bone seems true, BT, by evidence of Christian attacks I've read forum-wide. That and almost total misinformation [or none] about what's being attacked. Quote by Magical Pig:[b] ... the burning of Harry Potter books ...[/b] Didn't know about the burning. Still... May I share a dose of reality to your crusade, Mr. Pig? (I realize that Harry Potter being a revered pop icon as Mr. Zappa, this may go in one ear and out the other). Like music, books and movies they spawn have power of influence. As a residential drug rehab counselor six years I worked with many involved in satanic-activity. They always started in a "fun" way in a group doing something "harmless" a la the innocent Potter cherubs. In a midnight session one 20-year-old was jolted awake and [i]scared white[/i] (no exaggeration) about memories of things he'd done and was too scared to talk about all, but he managed to share that in the College town of Denton, TX, a Satanic groups hotbed, they'd lured a virgin (somebody's innocent daughter they thought would finish college and marry), killed her and drunk her blood. I hate to be this graphic but today has the same potential for good or evil as any of the 364 to follow, and extreme recreational thinking like yours that scrutinizes nothing but treats evil things equal to good [you wouldn't want your female relatives to suffer that tragedy would you?] legitimize such evil in the brains of bored desensitized youth who don't know the demonic origins of Potterism, and inadvertently (or not) schedule participating in such at a future date. Think that's far off? Here's one from Hitler about his beloved Hitler Youth: [quote]Look at these young men and boys. What material! With them I can make a new world. . . .A violently active, dominating, intrepid, brutal youth--that is what I am after. Youth must be all those things. It must be indifferent to pain. There must be no weakness or tenderness in it. I want to see once more in its eyes the gleam of pride and independence of the beast of prey. . . I intend to have an athletic youth--that is the first and the chief thing. . . I will have no intellectual training. Knowledge is ruin to my young men."[/quote] Quote by pokeefe777@msn.com [b]I'll be the first to tell you that I'm far from perfect, and I fall short of my own ideals far more often than I care to think about, but I MUST think about. I don't, however, feel God loves me based upon being "good enough" to be "worthy" of that love. I don't HAVE to be "perfect" to be loved, I just have to "be", and accept it. I try to be a better person than I was yesterday, and show love to others - not out of any desire to "earn" my salvation, but rather, out of a desire to show love to the One who showed it to me first. I, therefore, have no right to judge others, for I am, at heart, no better than anyone else. ... And as far as "crucifying you" - I don't think that's necessary - once (for all mankind) was enough.[/b] Go Phil! :) Go Phil! :) Go Phil! :) Go Phil! :) Everpresent excesses, greed, treachery, control-freak-power-hunger and downright stupidity of humans, not God, have soiled and spoiled the faith that Jesus gives. In the end in my understanding, Christianity's all about Love and Liberty, Brother Pig, and most other "religions" you're aware of teach and allow little or none of both.

[techristian]

I wouldn't normally get up on a soapbox in a music/tech forum, but MAGICAL PIG opened the pandoras box first by saying "but I hate religion and all the people that die and feel they have the right to kill over it." [b] I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL. NEITHER HAVE ANY OF MY FRIENDS OR CHURCH MEMBERS[/b] Getting that out of the way, now I will get back to the original post. http://musicinit.com is also a CHRISTIAN MUSIC WEBSITE. I'm sorry MAGICAL PIG, but I said it. And besides the music AND VIDEOS of NANOSECOND we have links to other christian INDIE bands, as well as a FREE TRADING POST to list your gear. ASK THE MUSICIAN WILL be redesigned (and renamed) soon and we are working on a new CD, with the Roland Studio Pack of course! .................and [b]EVERYONE IS INVITED ![/b]

[topper74]

Lovesinger, Have you read any of the Harry Potter books? I don't understand why it is that this series has been picked out as evil when nobody has said anything about Lord of the Rings, which has sorcercy and magic throughout. I have read one of the HP books, and seen the movie, and I honestly don't see the harm. Is LOTR not mentioned because Tolkien wrote the story, and he was a christian? If parents put HP in the proper perspective for their kids, it should be as harmless as Luke Skywalker and the Force were for me as a kid. My parents taught me the difference between reality and entertainment, and that made all the difference. They aren't trying to worship Satan in these stories, they are making feathers float, and riding on broomsticks. I know this is off topic, but I have been frustrated by the whole Harry Potter thing for a while. I should say that I'm a Christian as well, and agree with everything else that you had to say. I just don't get the HP thing. [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: topper74 ]

[Charlie-brm]

Lovesinger, Have you read any of the Harry Potter books? I don't understand why it is that this series has been picked out as evil when nobody has said anything about Lord of the Rings, which has sorcercy and magic throughout. Give them another week or two Topper (edited from incorrectly saying Lovesinger). Lord of the Rings has only been on the screen for 2 weeks. The yahoos don't get the news media's attention until stories become a movie - something they can follow for a few hours that doesn't involve reading. The bible as a movie would scare the shit out of me if I hadn't been exposed to it since a child, in context. [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Charlie-brm ]

[SFOracle]

Thanks for the link Phil, I'll bookmark it. Magical Pig - your efforts to convince people that your own beliefs (or lack thereof) are more correct than ours sound almost evangelical. Who are you trying to convert? Why else would you open a thread titled "Christian musicians - interesting link" and then respond the way you did? If you are not interested in a thread, you don't have to read it. Don. Oracle (n): godlike mystic; dispenser of wisdom.

[lovesinger]

[quote]Originally posted by topper74:[b]Lovesinger, Have you read any of the Harry Potter books? I don't understand why it is that this series has been picked out as evil when nobody has said anything about Lord of the Rings, which has sorcercy and magic throughout[/b][/quote] Friend topper74, Honest direct answr: no. I also don't have to crash heavy chairs over my grown sons' heads and body slam them on concrete in backyard smack-downs to see if its reported serious injury, paralysis and death are real. I'll post why that's not essential shortly (I'm at work), but since you've expressed a genuine interest in knowing what the Potter problem is, I share the links below and personal bit below in answer to that interest. Definitely check in especially the first 2 links how the NON-Christian focused ABC NEWS, FoxNews.com, and major newspapers and publications quote raving praise of Potter books by high-profile, established "witches" for whom witchcraft is an absorbing daily life-practice, and report on youth who "want to be a witch" from such influence. http://logosresourcepages.org/potter2.htm http://www.letusreason.org/Current28.htm http://www.foxnews.com/etcetera/080600/witchcraft.sml http://www.ericbarger.com/potterreid.htm My birthday is Halloween Day. Birthdays growing up had the "fun" of scary-movie parties, demon-themed [didn't know it then] greeting cards and all. After age 9, even that seemed uncomfortably wrong somehow. I also grew up in a time when "religion" [most critics mean Christianity when they say that] was not the politically-incorrect public pariah no-no its been the last 35 years, so knowing and respecting Godly reality was always there to balance corrupted halloweenism. I'm still a fan of non-ungodly science fiction, and although Star Wars flirted with God-absent "use the force" New Ageism, Harry's in the big leagues occult-wise and [as one writer put it] goes beyond Star Wars. I also love cinematography and special efx and from clips I've seen the movie's sterling in that department, but the spiritual Potter price is too big to pay for me to support it. Christian truth doesn't require a diploma nor even kindegarten graduation -- just mostly mature comparison to reality. If a 4-year-old stood in a second-story window with a bath-towel cape, shouted "I can fly" and motioned to show it, knowing what's true about where he'd end up you'd be less than responsible to not move to stop him. Harry Potter's serious fans [b]don't know[/b] they can't cast spells, control their world with incantations, and fly [on broomsticks or otherwise]. [b]Quote by topper74: If parents put HP in the proper perspective for their kids, it should be as harmless as Luke Skywalker and the Force were for me as a kid.[/b] Many parents will ... many won't. What's an acceptable number of kids to sacrifice to Wiccans and covens among the many who won't before we say "wait a minute" and take a stand? Newsweek quotes Potter's author: [quote]J.K. Rowling in her interview with Newsweek's Malcolm Jones, said, “I get letters from children addressed to Professor Dumbledore [headmaster at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, the books' setting], and it's not a joke, begging to be let into Hogwarts, and some of them are really sad. Because they want it to be true so badly they've convinced themselves it's true.” [/quote] And if Hogwart's existed, many parents with more money than spiritual sense would gladly send their children there. In the Superman saga humans are immune to kryptonite, but its deadly to Superman. Maybe you're immune to occult Potter influence .. but a lot adult and child of "supermen" aren't. And if you think Satan's not patient to wait however long it takes for this seed to destroy those not immune to it you underestimete him. Also, remember Christ's "you can't serve two masters" thing, punctuated by his "if you're not with me, you're against me"? Guess whose side that puts me on if I a Christian support popular cute occult Harryism? Lord of The Rings has issues and detractors, too. But it's not about "compared to Lord of the Rings" -- it's about spiritual truth and spiritual lies with a soul-price, light and darkness, life and death. Hope this perspective helps in your Christian growth, and mine. Forgive the verbosity __ Potters "cute" occultism is serious business, and souls are at stake. Maybe we can lighten up some now. [img]http://logosresourcepages.org/images/potter1.gif[/img] [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: lovesinger ] [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: lovesinger ]

[topper74]

Lovesinger, While I appreciate your views on this matter, I just can't agree that Harry Potter is repsonsible for souls being at stake. You are correct in assuming that some parents won't explain that HP is fantasy. The issue is just that, a lack of parental involvement. If souls are at stake, it's because parents aren't doing their job. That is the fundamental issue involved in this, and in many other discussions. I am very sensitive to the "find the evil in everything" mentality that some Christians have. I remember when I was a kid, that a mother wouldn't take her children to E.T. because she thought there were demonic messages in it. You can find the worst in anything if you look for it. Until hearing her discuss it, it never would have occured to me that E.T. was anything but a story, nor should it have. I really think that you should see the movie or read the book. If you don't want your money to go towards the franchise, then get one from the library. The evil that you assume is there, is nothing but a Fantasy land. I don't think you have a very good understanding of what you oppose. My Father, who is an elder in our church, and my mother, who is the church secretary, were very much against HP. I convinced them that they should check it out for themselves before condemning it. They had a great time, and were really entertained! Anyway, sorry to rant. I just think people should know what they are talking about before they make decisions about what is evil, and what is not. My feeling is that the intent of the story is to entertain. It does a great job! [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: topper74 ]

[topper74]

Lovesinger, While I appreciate your views on this matter, I just can't agree that Harry Potter is repsonsible for sould being at stake. You are correct in assuming that some parents won't explain that HP is fantasy. The issue is just that, a lack of parental involvement. If souls are at stake, it's because parents aren't doing their job. That is the fundamental issue involved in this, and in many other discussions. I am very sensitive to the "find the evil in everything" mentality that some Christians have. I remember when I was a kid, that a mother wouldn't take her children to E.T. because she thought there were demonic messages in it. You can find the worst in anything if you look for it. Until hearing her discuss it, it never would have occured to me that E.T. was anything but a story, nor should it have. I really think that you should see the movie or read the book. If you don't want your money to go towards the franchise, then get one from the library. The evil that you assume is there, is nothing but a Fantasy land. I don't think you have a very good understanding of what you oppose. My Father, who is an elder in our church, and my mother, who is the church secretary, were very much against HP. I convinced them that they should check it out for themselves before condemning it. They had a great time, and were really entertained! Anyway, sorry to rant. I just think people should know what they are talking about before they make decisions about what is evil, and what is not. And if Harry Potter is a tool of Satan, we should know what we are up against. Satan knows us pretty well.

[RobT]

[ [quote]Yeah, and Jim Morrison told us all that he was the lizard king. Do you REALLY think he could do anything? As a matter of fact, at least we know that Morrison actually said he was the lizard king. With Jesus your taking someone elses word that he said it. You could quote 5 or more other religions saying their guy is the real top banana too... IT DOESNT MAKE IT SO JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE LATCHED ON TO ONE PARTICULAR STORY. Believe anything you want, just dont expect me to go along with what i see as a misguided point of view. [ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: Magical Pig ][/QB][/quote] So what we know about the various Caesars, The Roman, Greek and other great empires of the past were 'someone else's word on what happened too. Does that make them any less valid? Perhaps you should take a look at: http://www.bib-arch.org/ 'Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the wind isn't there' RobT

[lovesinger]

topper, I respect your views, and thanks for the opportunity to discuss such as this in a noncombative manner ... it's refreshing. I can't reasonably expect just from conversation that you could absorb my experiences from years of watching uncounted persons lives destroyed 2, 5, or 15 years after they got sucked up into seemingly-innocent occult play. Sometimes the best that's hoped for is a spirit of willingness to research these things for yourself and understand the facts that police departments nationwide have acknowledged from decades of occult crime followups. One's agreeing or disagreeing opinions can fly interminably back and forth through the air, but facts [especially death and the trail that leads to it] are a whole different matter. Your "don't judge a book by its cover" concern is civil and reasonable, but what you may not understand is this is just the same dark dabblings from uncountable centuries and ages repackaged for consumers of the new millenium -- an old song by a new singer with a new look. I addressed Christian principles because you said you are Christian in your query. As one, you surely know that like Cain & Able, the Inquisition, Jonestown and other spiritual tragedies, this is not about writers, books, movies, film, cameras and money, not even lovable mistreated underdog turned Jr. spellmaster Harry Potter -- it's about the ages-old God-and-human-enemy spirit behind them and his agenda (name:Satan, meaning:adversarial enemy) who's just using these "props" as his latest suck-up tools. They're new and fresh and appealing, but the motive beneath them isn't. It's clear you won't be convinced today, you just have to keep living and find out. You should also be aware of Satan's ability and propensity to impersonate good things ("transform himself into an angel of light", your Bible). [quote]Originally posted by topper74: [b]I just can't agree that Harry Potter is repsonsible for souls being at stake.[/b][/quote] You misunderstood that completely. Souls are at stake anyway as a part of life, always. HP is just the freshest running back (football) brought in to grind out yardage against them and defeat them. [quote]Originally posted by topper74:[b]I am very sensitive to the "find the evil in everything" mentality that some Christians have.[/b][/quote]It's an errant and non-biblical mentality. If God wanted that, we wouldn't have Phillipians 4:8 and Jesus' many "don't worry" teachings. [quote]Originally posted by topper74:[b]My Father, who is an elder in our church, and my mother, who is the church secretary, were very much against HP. I convinced them that they should check it out for themselves before condemning it. They had a great time, and were really entertained![/b][/quote] With much respect for the valuable work your parents do in the church, your Bible clearly states there are different gifts (abilities to perceive and perform) among the different administrations in the church. Most football running greats can't quarterback, and most quarterbacks can't play tailback, but each does the job he's gifted for exceptionally. Many in church are initially influenced to avoid or embrace a thing on recommendations. If they don't confirm in their spirit that is what God TRULY wants THEM to do, swaying is easy. A watchful military sentinel on guard duty can detect creeping enemy movements lounging officers and even alert radio operators cannot. So it is with church officers gifted with discernment of soul-threatening things and responsible for the warnings thereof (the pastor especially, which is why many members "fall out" with his suggestions), and extremely discerning "lay" people the bible terms "watchmen". When game time comes, pro players have to put down the entertaining GameBoys and put out serious effort on the field of play. Outside my spiritual awareness I'd also be WILDLY entertained by Harry Potter. But some things are non-negotiable ... and it's game time for this player. [quote]Originally posted by topper74:[b]And if Harry Potter is a tool of Satan, we should know what we are up against. Satan knows us pretty well.[/b][/quote]Satan knows only general human nature pretty well, and what we let him know about ourselves... he's only one being with a demonic mafia network, not omniscient like God. And it seems you're beginning to get the point :) . God Bless.

[topper74]

I don't believe my folks fell for anything. I think that they were able to go make a judgement based on what they saw, instead of what others told them they should see. I have the impression that that is what you have done. You are right, I won't be convinced. I too have seen people ruined by the occult, but never by a child's fairtyale. The occult has nothing to do with flying on broomsticks and turning you friend into a toad. If you feel that you are opening yourself up to Satan by seeing this movie, do what you must. My faith in god will not be effected by a film. As far as debating in a civil manner, why would I not. I ain't mad at cha! Just bummed that you are missing out on a great movie! :D

[rold]

Man, if I were Christ, I'd be rolling over in my proverbial grave right now... Souls at stake? Worries about losing children to other religions that "aren't the right one"? If I were sill associated with "Christianity"* , I'd be more worried about [b]pushing people away[/b] rather than "losing" them to some other faith, given the way the religion as a whole has been conducting itself. Do you see Harry Potter burning bibles? Do you see Harry Potter or his author preaching intolerance towards everything "unPotter-like"? Do you see them denouncing homosexuality, liberals, - practically anything and everything that does not conform to their set of beliefs? And people call these kinds of action "Christian"? My God - I wonder how Christ feels about all this being done in his name! * - When I was 17, I had to become "Christian" to join the best band in town. So I did, and I went to church every sunday, tried to make my life an example, preached with the best of them, didn't drink, refrained from sexual activity or "evil thoughts", toured with the band, and kept it up for years. I eventually got fed up with the intolerance of the "Christian" religion and "fell away". I did not "fall away" to another religion, sex, drugs and rock and roll, I willingly left the religion and the band because I was absolutely fed up with hearing about how EVERYTHING outside the church and the religion was "evil". From what I read about Christ, I have seen VERY little actual "Christ-like" behaviour in "Christianity". In that same sense, now that Wiccanism has been brought up, I have met more Wiccans who conducted themselves in a Christ-like way than I have "Christians"! What a sick joke! [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: 'rold ]

[KHAN]

'rold RULEZ!!!! :D

[topper74]

[quote] posted 01-02-2002 05:41 PM                     ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Man, if I were Christ, I'd be rolling over in my proverbial grave right now.. [/quote] He's not in the grave anymore! Remember? :D

[topper74]

crap..oops..double post! :rolleyes: [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: topper74 ]

[KornRulez]

[quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b]'rold RULEZ!!!! :D [/b][/quote] Uh, I beg to differ :D

[rold]

[quote]Originally posted by topper74: [b] He's not in the grave anymore! Remember? :D [/b][/quote] LOL - Damn I forgot! Must be that EVIL pot smoke! Hey - wait a second - some things are starting to come back to me now! Like the one where the Earth is only 6000 years old :D :rolleyes: (If I were to sum up the amount of info the bible gives me that I actually BELIEVE, it'd probably be about one page thick.. :D )

[Magical Pig]

[quote]Originally posted by 'rold: [b]Man, if I were Christ, I'd be rolling over in my proverbial grave right now... Souls at stake? Worries about losing children to other religions that "aren't the right one"? If I were sill associated with "Christianity"* , I'd be more worried about [b]pushing people away[/b] rather than "losing" them to some other faith, given the way the religion as a whole has been conducting itself. Do you see Harry Potter burning bibles? Do you see Harry Potter or his author preaching intolerance towards everything "unPotter-like"? Do you see them denouncing homosexuality, liberals, - practically anything and everything that does not conform to their set of beliefs? And people call these kinds of action "Christian"? My God - I wonder how Christ feels about all this being done in his name! * - When I was 17, I had to become "Christian" to join the best band in town. So I did, and I went to church every sunday, tried to make my life an example, preached with the best of them, didn't drink, refrained from sexual activity or "evil thoughts", toured with the band, and kept it up for years. I eventually got fed up with the intolerance of the "Christian" religion and "fell away". I did not "fall away" to another religion, sex, drugs and rock and roll, I willingly left the religion and the band because I was absolutely fed up with hearing about how EVERYTHING outside the church and the religion was "evil". From what I read about Christ, I have seen VERY little actual "Christ-like" behaviour in "Christianity". In that same sense, now that Wiccanism has been brought up, I have met more Wiccans who conducted themselves in a Christ-like way than I have "Christians"! What a sick joke! [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: 'rold ][/b][/quote] Well said! I agree totally. I went to Christian Brothers Acadamy for high school and also witnessed intolerance to a ridiculous degree (my personal favorite was having theology and military science back to back). I just dont buy the schtick anymore and dont consider myself religious, but feel I treat people in a much more "Christ like" fashion then many of the supposed Christians I encounter. These are only MY VIEWS, and in no way am I trying to denegrate anyone elses views by expressing them. You can post the churches propoganda till your fingers fall off and it wont change MY mind. But if YOU dig the church thing, and it helps you get through the day, good for you.

[lovesinger]

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- posted 01-02-2002 05:41 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Man, if I were Christ, I'd be rolling over in my proverbial grave right now.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quote]Originally posted by topper74: [b] He's not in the grave anymore! Remember? :D [/b][/quote] ...'at's kinda what happens when ya fall away ... little by little ... ya lose ... the good things ...

[lovesinger]

"Phil has left the building"...me too... :) God Bless all.

[ViLo]

[quote]Originally posted by lovesinger: [b]"Phil has left the building"...me too... :) God Bless all.[/b][/quote] Me 3!! ViLo From Dallas, Tx.,

[rold]

[quote]Originally posted by Magical Pig: [b] Well said! I agree totally. I went to Christian Brothers Acadamy for high school and also witnessed intolerance to a ridiculous degree (my personal favorite was having theology and military science back to back). I just dont buy the schtick anymore and dont consider myself religious, but feel I treat people in a much more "Christ like" fashion then many of the supposed Christians I encounter. These are only MY VIEWS, and in no way am I trying to denegrate anyone elses views by expressing them. You can post the churches propoganda till your fingers fall off and it wont change MY mind. But if YOU dig the church thing, and it helps you get through the day, good for you.[/b][/quote] I'm all for live and let live - no problem there. I DO, however, draw the line when I see people burn children's books for the author or content being inspired by religions other than their own. I have no problems with people's personal beliefs until they start trampling all over my own, or other people's. Burning children's books over the fact that the religion differs from their own? How much sillier can this get? Next thing you know, lunatics are going to go on national TV and blame the deaths of thousands of innocent people on feminists and homosexuals :rolleyes:

[RobT]

I suppose some of you think Miss Cleo is harmless also ...

[Uh Clem]

[quote]Originally posted by RobT: [b][ So what we know about the various Caesars, The Roman, Greek and other great empires of the past were 'someone else's word on what happened too. Does that make them any less valid? RobT[/b][/quote] RobT - you rock dude - that is a great point I keep trying to make - that the Greeks and Romans had Gods too and they seemed just as real to them as the Gods we have today do to...well, to some. And, no, it does not seem any less valid - rather, equally invalid. Just another primitive way to explain a complex world. But, you gotta hope those Greeks were wrong or one day Zeus is gonna kick all our butts - unless it is really the same dude - yeah, the invisible guy in the sky - and he just changed his name and / or ad campaign. And Miss Cleo - now there's a piece of work. Taking money from unspecting people telling them all this mystical nonsense - wonder how in the world she thought up a scam like that? Surely not from watching the Pats, Orals, Jims and other "yeah we know they aren't really, but play one on TV" type "fellows"? But it is not really Cleo that worries me nearly as much as the person on the other end of her phone-line :eek: . [ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: stevepow ]

[strat0124]

Lovesinger....is the picture you posted you?