OT: 2018 Formula One Season

[Joe Muscara]

How the mighty have fallen; McLaren and Williams starting last...

That was unbelievable. Though Williams has been up and down seemingly forever. Just when you think they're coming back, they step back. It's been kind of sad, really.

 

 

...and how did Grosjean manage to bin that?!?

It wasn't a good day for most of the French drivers, ironically.

[gd1]

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Viewership has fallen nearly 50% since 2008, a freind works for a sports network that broadcasts F1. One of the biggest concerns in viewership relates to the very low interest in the under 35 age group.

[MojoGuyPan]

Well F1 is tremendously boring. I use to love it in the 80's and early 90's but really have had to force myself to watch the past 15 years or so.

 

I don't see how they can attract young kids with the races as lame as they are. Even back in the 80's when I got into it as a teenager it was kind of boring but much much better than what's been going on.

 

They really need to do something to make it fun to watch. The only people I can see who watch it are the ones who got sucked in when it was a little better to watch.

 

The hover board was really cool though.

[Joe Muscara]

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Viewership has fallen nearly 50% since 2008, a freind works for a sports network that broadcasts F1. One of the biggest concerns in viewership relates to the very low interest in the under 35 age group.

[Joe Muscara]

Before the race, everyone was complaining about the "chicken"* on the long straight, but that's where just about all the passes happened! They're probably better off leaving it in.

 

Also, I had a thought about DRS and what we were saying about it previously in this thread. While it is contrived, I've noticed that the majority of the time, when someone passes someone else using DRS, the passee usually doesn't get him back. It is allowing faster cars to pass, so it might be alleviating the problem of the downforce and dirty air screwing up passing. It's a band-aid, but it's something for now.

 

* They were in France, and that's how they pronounce it!

[marino]

Austrian GP just ended. In a hurry:

 

Congrats to Max for a masterfully conducted race.

 

Now, from a "ferrarista" point of view: Why Kimi didn't let Seb pass in the end is beyond me. Four more points could show to be invaluable at the end of the season. Kimi is so beyond in the Driver's classification that he should have done the right thing for the team.

 

 

[Tomkeen]

I'm glad he didn't though. Vettel hasn't been performing as good as he could/should lately. Kimi deserved second place. I never like it when a driver let's his teammate pass.

[zephonic]

 

Now, from a "ferrarista" point of view: Why Kimi didn't let Seb pass in the end is beyond me. Four more points could show to be invaluable at the end of the season. Kimi is so beyond in the Driver's classification that he should have done the right thing for the team.

 

 

From a racing point of view: Im glad he did not. He has been sacrificed for Vettels benefit time and time again, and today Seb simply wasnt fast enough to get close. I believe Raikkonen would be higher up in the championship if Ferrari offered a level playing field.

 

Other than that, I though this was an entertaining race, although a double DNF for Mercedes is unusual. They really lost the race with first VSC, when everybody else pitted.

 

Also, I think Spielberg is my favorite track. I love the way it flows, and the alpine scenery is beyond gorgeous.

 

[marino]

Now, from a "ferrarista" point of view: Why Kimi didn't let Seb pass in the end is beyond me. Four more points could show to be invaluable at the end of the season. Kimi is so beyond in the Driver's classification that he should have done the right thing for the team.

From a racing point of view: Im glad he did not. He has been sacrificed for Vettels benefit time and time again, and today Seb simply wasnt fast enough to get close. I believe Raikkonen would be higher up in the championship if Ferrari offered a level playing field.

I'm not sure about that. As much as I love his driving, Kimi's performance has been *very* erratic in the last couple of years. And, despite his sporting merits and claims to the contrary, he's been hired to be Vettel's sidekick from the beginning, just like Bottas at MB. So it's silly not to behave like one when it's most needed - as he already did a few times.

Should Seb lose the championship by two or three points, this race will be remembered.

[marino]

Oh, and just to reiterate that I'm *not* unbiased when it comes to F1...

 

About the penalty inflicted to Seb in Q2, here's what the legendary Mario Andretti has to say:

"Dear stewards, a penalty that could affect a championship should not be imposed unless it's flagrant. In this case it clearly was NOT! #shame."

 

 

[Tomkeen]

I think it's too early to affect the championship. Maybe if there are three or four races left and have similar points, but so many things can happen still.

[Joe Muscara]

Also, I think Spielberg is my favorite track. I love the way it flows, and the alpine scenery is beyond gorgeous.

Yes, though I think my favorite part is that it reminds me of the way tracks and races looked in the early 90s when I really started watching F1.

 

For a pro-American viewpoint (I'm not, but I think it's great for the team), Kevin Magnussen is seventh in the championship behind the big three of Merc, Ferrari, and RB. Haas has their best-ever result in their 50th race (and even if all of the big three had finished, they likely would have been 6th and 7th), and they're fifth in the championship. Grosjean finally got his first points this season. Good for all of them!

[zephonic]

So it's silly not to behave like one when it's most needed - as he already did a few times.

Should Seb lose the championship by two or three points, this race will be remembered.

 

About the penalty inflicted to Seb in Q2, here's what the legendary Mario Andretti has to say:

"Dear stewards, a penalty that could affect a championship should not be imposed unless it's flagrant. In this case it clearly was NOT! #shame."

 

I have to agree with Tom here:

 

I think it's too early to affect the championship. Maybe if there are three or four races left and have similar points, but so many things can happen still.

 

We're not even halfway into the season, too early to start denying drivers their dues.

 

Also, do we know if Raikkonen was instructed by the team to move over? I didn't hear anything on the broadcast. If he was not so instructed, he was racing for position and had every right to defend it. Not that I saw Vettel even coming close, so he would have had to actually slow down and let him through to make it happen, which would make Ferrari look really bad.

 

 

 

For a pro-American viewpoint (I'm not, but I think it's great for the team), Kevin Magnussen is seventh in the championship behind the big three of Merc, Ferrari, and RB. Haas has their best-ever result in their 50th race (and even if all of the big three had finished, they likely would have been 6th and 7th), and they're fifth in the championship. Grosjean finally got his first points this season. Good for all of them!

 

Yes, team Haas has been consistently impressive, even if Grosjean hasn't. They are definitely the best of the rest; let's hope it will generate more American interest in F1.

 

[marino]

Guys, you are *all* right about Kimi doing his race and not letting Seb pass; it was the right decision in the spirit of fair racing.

 

But, as I said, this is Ferrari, and in these cases, I'm only seeing Red. :D

 

More seriously, I see *everybody* doing shameless team strategies. Besides the obvious lie that "both our drivers have equal opportunities" repeated by Mercedes and Ferrari at every GP, you might remember that at Monaco, Mercedes asked the driver of a *different* team - that was Ocon - to let the two MB cars pass him easily. And he was not lapped if memory serves; he was fighting for position. Toto Wolff admitted it himself with no problem. And no penality for that; not even a fine or a reprimand.

 

So why should Ferrari follow strict sporting rules, when their main opponents are ignoring them so blatantly?

 

 

[marino]

[Joe Muscara]

That race was a good 'un.

[zephonic]

Congrats with today's victory, Carlo. Ferrari were the team to beat at Silverstone, Mercedes need to step up their game. The car is good, but they're not on top of things when it comes to strategy.

 

The last couple of years it didn't matter as their car was usually miles ahead of the rest anyway. But with Ferrari this competitive, they need to bring their A-game every time.

 

It's been an interesting season so far.

[marino]

To be sure, I still think that MB will be the car to beat during the last part of the championship. They have a lot of money to spend on development, and a lot of determination; and they have Lewis Hamilton.

 

I like Lewis like a kick on my front teeth, but it can't be denied that he's a first-rate champion. He performed a stunning comeback today, worthy of the incredible driver that he is.

Seb overtaking Bottas, and the Kimi/Max duel also were stunning highlights of this race, one of the best of the last years.

 

I really regret about Kimi hitting Hamilton on Lap 1. It was Kimi's mistake, as he said himself, and the 10 sec penalty wasn't out of place. Unfortunately, that also deprived us of a possible dogfight confrontation between the two championship leaders, which I would have loved to see. Btw, Lewis had a dreadful start.

 

Speaking of which... I heard Wolff saying something about Kimi hitting Lewis intentionally. Now, if you have vaguely been into Formula 1 for the past 20 years, you do *not* accuse Kimi Raikkonen of such a move. Despite being a hard fighter, he's the most correct driver I have ever watched in my life. Everybody knows that. So stop the insinuations and learn to lose with dignity.

 

The Max report: After an incredible move on Kimi, Verstappen gave his worst by spinning off by himself. Looks like this is Max, take it or leave it.

 

I really can't wait to see Charles Leclerc on a Ferrari, possibly next year. For now, I'm enjoying this great championship.

 

 

[zephonic]

To be sure, I still think that MB will be the car to beat during the last part of the championship. They have a lot of money to spend on development, and a lot of determination; and they have Lewis Hamilton.

 

I'm pretty sure Ferrari's budget is right up there with Mercedes', and they get a disproportionally large slice of the F1 pie just for showing up.

In my observation, Ferrari and Mercedes are neck to neck. Certain tracks suit Ferrari better, others suit the Mercedes better. Ferrari does seem to be better on the tires, though.

 

I really regret about Kimi hitting Hamilton on Lap 1. It was Kimi's mistake, as he said himself, and the 10 sec penalty wasn't out of place. Unfortunately, that also deprived us of a possible dogfight confrontation between the two championship leaders, which I would have loved to see. Btw, Lewis had a dreadful start.

 

Yeah, but I thought it was just a racing incident, and the penalty a bit harsh. Vettel got only a 5s penalty last week for something similar.

Speaking of which... I heard Wolff saying something about Kimi hitting Lewis intentionally. Now, if you have vaguely been into Formula 1 for the past 20 years, you do *not* accuse Kimi Raikkonen of such a move. Despite being a hard fighter, he's the most correct driver I have ever watched in my life.

 

I didn't hear Wolff say that, but I don't believe Raikkonen would do anything like that, ever.

 

 

The Max report: After an incredible move on Kimi, Verstappen gave his worst by spinning off by himself. Looks like this is Max, take it or leave it.

 

"Fast and Flawed In Equal Measure", is the saying, I believe.

 

I really can't wait to see Charles Leclerc on a Ferrari, possibly next year. For now, I'm enjoying this great championship.

 

Yeah, it's great to finally have Vettel and Hamilton slug it out. I haven't been much of a Vettel fan since Turkey 2010, but having both of them gun for their fifth title is the stuff legends are made off.

And Charles Leclerc is very impressive. I bet he'd give Seb a run for his money!

 

[Joe Muscara]

The Max report: After an incredible move on Kimi, Verstappen gave his worst by spinning off by himself. Looks like this is Max, take it or leave it.

 

"Fast and Flawed In Equal Measure", is the saying, I believe.

The team is saying that he had a brake-by-wire issue that first appeared on the first lap, went away, and then came back.

 

Then after the second safety car I braked for Turn 16 and the pedal literally went to the floor, the rear brakes locked up and I spun off the track.

 

If so, not his fault. He's been really steady lately and until that point in the race was fighting hard and fair. I'd say he's looking good if he keeps it up.

[marino]

I'm pretty sure Ferrari's budget is right up there with Mercedes', and they get a disproportionally large slice of the F1 pie just for showing up.

I'm not sure about the first statement; Mercedes' budget is really huge. Ferrari money come from FIAT, which is not in its best shape.

The second statement is absolutely true, though; not quite fair, obviously. I think it will end soon.

 

Charles Leclerc is very impressive. I bet he'd give Seb a run for his money!

I would die for a Ferrari team with Leclerc and Ricciardo!!

 

He's been really steady lately and until that point in the race was fighting hard and fair. I'd say he's looking good if he keeps it up.

Max is an incredible talent already. His counter-move on Kimi was fabulous. Unfortunately, it looks like his dad has taught him a kind of "hit first at all cost" attitude... probably, he will need to get rid of that as an essential step toward maturity.

[Theo Verelst]

Like with soccer, my interest is only moderate when excitement is about injuries and rigged games, orchestrated moves, etc. Sports as communication is logical, but new rules are needed when competition is replaced by lack of putting the competition really behind. Sport isn't dancing, I say. Not that it should be war, but acting like a good sports person with team spirit and achieving the kind of victory people can relate to and learn from isn't just about technology and some fun rituals. In that sense logical developments in F1 must include allowing the parameters of the race to talk about character and even the risk of using new technology. The risk to lose I mean, not to get hurt.

 

T

 

[zephonic]

I'm pretty sure Ferrari's budget is right up there with Mercedes', and they get a disproportionally large slice of the F1 pie just for showing up.

I'm not sure about the first statement; Mercedes' budget is really huge. Ferrari money come from FIAT, which is not in its best shape.

The second statement is absolutely true, though; not quite fair, obviously. I think it will end soon.

 

A quick google search unearths the following:

 

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/236949/budgets-for-the-formula-1-teams-for-2018

 

Mercedes ~450 million

Ferrari ~430 million

Red Bull ~350 million

McLaren ~250 million

Renault ~200 million

Sauber ~135 million

Williams ~135 million

Toro Rosso ~125 million

Haas ~110 million

Force India ~110 million

 

AFAIK, most of the teams are run as for-profit businesses and largely self-sufficient. For example, parent company Daimler AG only funds about 10% of Mercedes F1's total budget. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132202/mercedes-f1-finances-explained

 

In terms of marketing and advertising, ~45 million per year is an absolute bargain for the kind of exposure and brand awareness that F1 offers.

 

 

I would die for a Ferrari team with Leclerc and Ricciardo!!

 

Fire!

 

 

The team is saying that he had a brake-by-wire issue that first appeared on the first lap, went away, and then came back.

 

Then after the second safety car I braked for Turn 16 and the pedal literally went to the floor, the rear brakes locked up and I spun off the track.

 

If so, not his fault. He's been really steady lately and until that point in the race was fighting hard and fair. I'd say he's looking good if he keeps it up.

 

You're right, of course. But I saw Verstappen spin and just assumed he was being rash again!

[Tedi]

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Viewership has fallen nearly 50% since 2008, a freind works for a sports network that broadcasts F1. One of the biggest concerns in viewership relates to the very low interest in the under 35 age group.

 

very interesting and also have a lot of sense

[Joe Muscara]

You're right, of course. But I saw Verstappen spin and just assumed he was being rash again!

[zephonic]

Sorry, Carlo, but I have to bite my tongue not to make jokes about the way Vettel binned it today. Reminiscent of Singapore last year, but worse.

 

Seems like a bit of karmic payback for the way they told Raikkonen to let him pass.

 

 

 

[marino]

Sorry, Carlo, but I have to bite my tongue not to make jokes about the way Vettel binned it today.

Go ahead, please....

 

[zephonic]

Sorry, my friend. Not all is lost!

 

Frankly, I feel like Raikkonen could have won it today if Ferrari had given him a better strategy. If he had pitted one lap after Hamilton, he'd have been in business.

[marino]

Ok, I think I had enough of motor racing for today.

 

First, we learn that Marchionne is suddendly at the point of death... then Seb makes a stupid mistake and hits the wall all by himself (nobody else did it in such a spectacular way, even during the rain showers)... Kimi, seemingly half-asleep (not for the first time) doesn't even attempt to get to the Mercedeses after the SC... AND my favorite young driver, Charles Leclerc, who has hit the points zone most of times this year, ended up last, more or less...

 

Better to get back to music, and dreaming of a Ricciardo-Leclerc duo at Ferrari.

 

Congrats to Hamilton and the MB team; they lead a perfect race today.

[marino]

Seems like a bit of karmic payback for the way they told Raikkonen to let him pass.

Again: *Everybody* does it; especially Mercedes. That's Bottas main role at MB. Did you notice when Valtteri was told to "keep position, sorry", after his attempts to attack Hamilton toward the end?