Duet act with female vocalist - pros/cons/pitfalls?

[Bob L]

An UPDATE - So my first gig with this duo is the end of December. Low key at a winery I've played at with my cover band. Perfect venue to launch. The project has been fun so far and I am getting back some of my jazz and solo chops. I will be nervous as heck the first gig, but you have to do the first gig eventually! I got a lot of great advice on this thread and as always this forum has been supportive and helpful. I will keep you all posted!

[Chris Link]

My first thought is to replicate the classic piano/vocal sound of the cabaret acts at the Oak Room at the Algonquin in NYC. Had the best seat in the house several years ago for Sylvia McNair and her accompanist. Arranger sounds from a keyboard would have ruined it.

 

But not every girl singer has a couple of Grammy awards and can move effortlessly from opera to Broadway to Great American Songbook material. If your singer can deliver the goods and you can fill out the sound with just piano (and thats not that easy), that would be what I would try to do.

[hipogrito]

Hi,

 

I've done a bunch of these, even live on FM radio, but with an 80's rock-ballad set-list. Like we would play Journey or Heart ballads, for example.

 

The most important things to me for the show to work in that context are:

 

- Change sounds. Do a plain piano song, then do a piano with strings song but then change to a totally different kind of sound, for example, I would play Separate Ways with the synth sound, a little slower. These are the moments that people that are not going to just see you will look at you during the show and the things they might remember.

 

- Change songs. For example play Barracuda, by Heart, with an acoustic piano sound. Yes it can be done. That will also draw the attention of the people. Do an AC/DC cover.

 

- In short, change the rhythm and tone of the show often so that it does not get boring. Using small sequences for some simple rhythms might also help here and there.

 

- In the end, the gig will work if the singer has charisma... no matter what you do, 98% of the people will be paying attention to her.

 

- Some venues suck at putting decent sound to this simple things. Beware.

 

- Very personal note, as all the music is you, you are very exposed, rehearsing is necessary. On one hand I love to play those things, on the other hand I get more nervous and have more stage fright than playing with a band where you can hide in certain moments if needed.

 

Regards,

Fran

[MathOfInsects]

OK, I have read through and I have a particular bit of input I haven't seen here. First, I should qualify this by saying that duo gigs (me and a singer) are not always my strength. Sometimes, but not always. But when I do them decently, it's because of this rule that I will pass along as somewhat contrary advice: If the gig is you and female singer, the gig is a female singer.

 

Period.

 

No one is there to hear the dorky piano player. They want to watch the hot singer, and the hot singer wants to be watched (whether she cops to it or not). So your job is to make her comfortable and amazing, in whatever form that takes.

 

On a basic level, that means giving a clear introduction with an obvious place for her to enter. Stay out of her way when she sings, commenting in places that won't throw her off. Signal when you're coming to an end.

 

I personally wouldn't bring your music-store riffs to the solos unless you get the sense that having a badass solo in her song is going to make the singer feel badass by extension. Just connect the tissue and give her a clear signal when it's time for her to sing again.

 

There is a ton of great (probably better) advice in this thread, but IMO, the rule-of-thumb that a piano-and-singer gig is really a singer gig, won't do you or anyone wrong in the long-term, even if you are able to incorporate all the rest of the advice along the way.

[area51recording]

Math has it nailed....

[yannis D]

Hi

IMO piano duos are... piano duos. No rhodes, no bass split, no sound layers and last but not least, not too many pop song that need drums and production. Play it safe: jazz and Broadway standards with a bossa here and there.

Stay out of her way, be sparse on you accompaniment, do your solo to give her some time to rest.

Acoustic piano and voice can get you through any gig. I would not use other sounds, but that's just me

And yes, MathOfInsects has nailed it.

Good luck

[timwat]

OK, I have read through and I have a particular bit of input I haven't seen here. First, I should qualify this by saying that duo gigs (me and a singer) are not always my strength. Sometimes, but not always. But when I do them decently, it's because of this rule that I will pass along as somewhat contrary advice: If the gig is you and female singer, the gig is a female singer.

 

Period.

 

No one is there to hear the dorky piano player. They want to watch the hot singer, and the hot singer wants to be watched (whether she cops to it or not). So your job is to make her comfortable and amazing, in whatever form that takes.

 

I started out in duo work with this perspective. Especially because I worked with some really hot singers, and the show really was about them.

 

What really opened my eyes was a Tierney Sutton gig with Mitchel Forman.

 

This was a true partnership, not an 'accompaniment' gig. Part of this is because Sutton was willing to share the spotlight in both musical and practical ways. Part of this is of course because Forman brings SO MUCH to the table in terms of vocabulary, maturity and musicality.

 

But what I got from attending that gig was a new way to approach my role in duo. And what I found was most (not all) of the hot gorgeous young singers I work with really WANTED a duo partner, not an accompanist. They wanted a musical foil to surprise them, delight them, take risks, do something new, be an equal musical partner in the partnership. Of course, you need to honor and respect each role being different (see my earlier post in this thread for my suggestions on that).

 

For me, duo work is way more fun and satisfying feeling an equal part. And I also still from time to time play duo gigs where the singer just wants an accompanist. But the better the singer I work with, the better the odds that they want more than that.

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

I started out in duo work with this perspective. Especially because I worked with some really hot singers, and the show really was about them.

 

What really opened my eyes was a Tierney Sutton gig with Mitchel Forman.

 

This was a true partnership, not an 'accompaniment' gig. Part of this is because Sutton was willing to share the spotlight in both musical and practical ways. Part of this is of course because Forman brings SO MUCH to the table in terms of vocabulary, maturity and musicality.

 

But what I got from attending that gig was a new way to approach my role in duo. And what I found was most (not all) of the hot gorgeous young singers I work with really WANTED a duo partner, not an accompanist. They wanted a musical foil to surprise them, delight them, take risks, do something new, be an equal musical partner in the partnership. Of course, you need to honor and respect each role being different (see my earlier post in this thread for my suggestions on that).

 

For me, duo work is way more fun and satisfying feeling an equal part. And I also still from time to time play duo gigs where the singer just wants an accompanist. But the better the singer I work with, the better the odds that they want more than that.

 

 

I think your perspective and experience in this area is really apt, and helpful in the general discussion of duo work. I have some sense that it might be a bridge too far for the context of the OP, which is a first shot out of the gate, so that's the aspect of it I was addressing. But all input is good input on this board, particularly yours (which I defer to on this topic), so it's good to have it all the soup and see what shakes out.

[Threadslayer]

,,,

[Bob L]

I feel obligated to post how things are going with this, since I got so much great advice. So on Tues, we performed a few songs in my home to add some holiday cheer to a dinner party my wife threw (so about a dozen women attending). That went very well and one of the attendee's boyfriend manages entertainment at a winery so we got two 2019 gigs from it.

 

Yesterday we had our first public performance at a local winery and they want us back. In addition, a local restaurant that has live music (small acts, not full bands) wants us to get in touch to play there in 2019. So two performances, and both generated interest.

 

Musically it is a challenge as I am not a great solo player/accompanist - but this project will certainly help get me there. The vocalist I work with is over the top with talent, and I knew that would do much of the heavy lifting. She really enjoyed it also as her other projects are hard rock (not too subtle vocally).

 

I want to thank each and every one of you that posted advice. I took as much of it as I could (keep it simple - just EPs,APs, keep the focus on supporting the vocalist, etc.). I appreciate the support this forum provides. Happy holidays to you all and hope you have a wonderful 2019!

[Outkaster]

Don't sleep with her.

 

I'm doomed.

 

Also, a big congratulations shout out to Joshua Paxton on his recent promotion.

 

LOL Dave. I think what happens is when you spend any amount of time together, sometimes, and just sometimes feelings can happen. Often they are not women you would necessarily pick out of the room but the shared attraction, love of music and tension can be a dangerous thing as time goes by. I was talking to a horn player about this who liked a singer a lot but wouldn't act on it. It was a good thing, he would have had too much to lose with his home life. Acting on things and thinking about it are two different things. It's like any other working relationship, try to keep it professional as much as possible.

[RandyFF]

Wow, great topic, lots of useful input. This would certainly jump start my practicing to have a duo gig to prepare for.

[Bob L]

OK, so yet another update. My duo act played at the same winery on Sunday ( three hours this time, not two). Not everything was perfect but a lot of great feedback. We've found another venue in town to play, and we are on our way. I may be posting questions about how to better solo over the changes in the standards we perform, but I've leveraged a lot of advice on this thread to make this whole venture more successful. Thanks for all the great advice and support!

[mauriziodececco]

I have a story: a couple of years ago i met an Italian female singer at a dinner; once it came out i was trying to be a pianist, she proposed to do something together as a duet.

Well, i wisely answered that you know, i would love to, but i never tried, and i now i need a rhythm section to keep the time steady.

 

But the conversation went on, chianti wine also, and finally we agreed to try.

 

It was very very interesting: she sang songs from the napolitan and sicilian tradition, and we tried jazzy arrangements, piano and voice. The problem was: i really cannot stick to a tempo without a drummer and a bass player.

 

We tried for a few months, and the end she stopped the project.

 

Initially it was very hard for my self-esteem, but at the end it was a very useful experience; i learned a lot on my limits, on what i can do and what i cannot do, and on what i really wanted from my life.

After that experience i quit any other activity (like developing iPad applications) and i decided i was a 'full-time' musicians (i mean, for the time left from my daytime job and the family .

 

We are still good friends, and yes, i am still happily married :->

 

Maurizio

[CEB]

I don't know. I've worked with lots of women and never found women to be any harder to work with than men. Maybe I just keep myself oblivious to things others call drama. Maybe it's because I've only been with one woman and I met my wife in 4th grade and don't treat the girls any different than the guys. I don't know. Just like anyone .... Don't work with drunks, addicts, thieves, liars etc.... It's usually good.

[timwat]

OK, so yet another update. My duo act played at the same winery on Sunday ( three hours this time, not two). Not everything was perfect but a lot of great feedback. We've found another venue in town to play, and we are on our way. I may be posting questions about how to better solo over the changes in the standards we perform, but I've leveraged a lot of advice on this thread to make this whole venture more successful. Thanks for all the great advice and support!

 

Bob - keep the updates coming, I'm rooting for you!

 

A short answer to your hinted question about soloing in standards. Especially when working with a singer, focus on keeping your solo "grounded" to the melodic line. Restate it, use it as the foundation to introduce motifs and counterpoint, lean on the rhythmic feel, etc.

 

Duo with singer is a different animal than blowing in a quintet or similar. In your context, the comfortable place to start is providing the listener with a 'new' perspective on the melody they've just heard the singer give them.

 

Louis Armstrong consistently stays very close to the melody with his solos. I've found over time that approach seems to gel better in duo work with singers. Hearing the melody often helps them stay referenced. It helps the listener feel like you're both playing the same tune (rather than the piano player being the hotshot just waiting for his 32 to show off).

 

Don't be afraid to use a LOT of space. With some songs with either "dense" clusters of lyrics, or thoughts that the listener is still digesting (maybe, a very emotional lyric), starting with very sparsely placed repeated motifs with lots of space in between eases the listener into the solo section.

 

Play the lyrics. What I mean is "play the mood, and the notes will come". Sonny Rollins famously said, "I can't solo on a tune unless I know the words". Give them the your musical equivalent of what the lyrics are saying and you'll be right more often than you'll be wrong.

 

Just a couple quick thoughts. Sounds like you're doing great!

 

Tim

[timwat]

I don't know. I've worked with lots of women and never found women to be any harder to work with than men. Maybe I just keep myself oblivious to things others call drama. Maybe it's because I've only been with one woman and I met my wife in 4th grade and don't treat the girls any different than the guys.

 

Maybe it's because all your avatars are the women you've had to work with?

[Joe Muscara]

A short answer to your hinted question about soloing in standards. Especially when working with a singer, focus on keeping your solo "grounded" to the melodic line. Restate it, use it as the foundation to introduce motifs and counterpoint, lean on the rhythmic feel, etc.

 

 

 

[just kidding, Tim! ]

 

The other thing you do when you keep your solo simple and grounded to the melody is that it makes it dead simple for the singer to know when it's time to come back in. The form will be very obvious. Lots of singers probably won't need it, but some could use the help.

[Bobadohshe]

I don't know. I've worked with lots of women and never found women to be any harder to work with than men. Maybe I just keep myself oblivious to things others call drama. Maybe it's because I've only been with one woman and I met my wife in 4th grade and don't treat the girls any different than the guys. I don't know. Just like anyone .... Don't work with drunks, addicts, thieves, liars etc.... It's usually good.

 

I too have never had issues with female singers. I probably put out tons of platonic energy and I am married which makes it easy.

[Outkaster]

Well being married to someone doesn't mean your not attracted to other women. I have two girls in the band and it's good we are all in other relationships so we don't have a Fleetwood Mac on our hands. It's been going on 7 years and things are good but sometimes I have to adjust how I talk to them. Both of them have said "we don't like a lot of women and want to be treated like one of the guys" When I do that they bitch. Nothings easy

[Song80s]

[video:youtube]

 

Sophia is ALWAYS happy. She is always on time and sings songs in the proper key.

 

Don't ever worry about the transpose button, either.

[Bob L]

Very good advice from timwat on soloing. Since I'm not a great soloist, staying close to the melody is best, and I think provides a lot of other benefits.

 

Another huge benefit of a project with two people is that the decision making gets easier. I do some tunes myself with this project (Piano man - Billy Joel, Your Song - Elton John) and if I want to add something, I just learn it (no committee with each band mate having "veto power"). And she has a list of songs she wants to do and I just choose from that list based on what I think I can cover.

 

The gigs are mentally taxing but I know that will improve. Now that the first three hour gig is in the rear view, it is about refining what we have, and adding songs at a reasonable pace.