Anderton Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 According to the LA Times, Universal is increasing the wholesale price of CDs another 40 cents to $9.49 per disc. Let's get this straight. A format is on the wane (what with DVD-Audio and SACD sitting in the wings), sales are down, they're competing with downloaders, so what do you do? Why, raise the price of course, with no corresponding increase in value! That scream you heard was the industry shooting itself in the foot...again. Somehow this is all very sad. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Sheeesh. I really think there is some sort of mass denial going on lately, on many fronts. It's like people who otherwise seem perfectly intelligent have been abducted by aliens and gotten lobotomies or something. You're right. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 I think they just don't get that a lot of people don't really want physical media, they want a license to put something into a format they dig, whether it's iPod, RAM player, cuts CD for their car, whatever. Not all people, by any means...when I hear great stuff on internet radio, I more often than not order a CD. But the lack of imagination in the industry is pretty amazing. "We're not making enough money? Then we'll raise the prices and make more money!" I don't think so. And if the problem is indeed that the artist's cut is too much of the total to allow for any wiggle room on pricing, sorry, but it's time for artists to think about this issue. Sometimes it's better to get 5% of a lot then 10% of a little. I keep flashing back to when Circuit City has those "all CDs for $9.95 sales" and the place is packed. Another case in point: My daughter really likes the No Doubt song "It's my Life" (and so do I). I never bought the CD but I saw it for $11.99 and I got it. I wouldn't have bought it for $18.98, I would have downloaded that one song from iTunes. I don't think I'm alone in this. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted April 17, 2004 Author Share Posted April 17, 2004 And I couldn't resist throwing in this line I just saw in the Lefsetz Letter... "P2P shows demand. Any REASONABLE businessman would try to SATISFY that demand." Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by Lee Flier: I really think there is some sort of mass denial going on lately, on many frontsCouldn't have said it better myself.The Emporer(Rec. industry)has no clothes and they refuse to believe it. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 And if the problem is indeed that the artist's cut is too much of the total to allow for any wiggle room on pricing, sorry, but it's time for artists to think about this issue. Sometimes it's better to get 5% of a lot then 10% of a little. While I believe that a small percentage of something beats a large percentage of nothing, I'm not really sure I'd blame the musicians in all of this. For years, the major labels have frequently abused and taken advantage of them... which they share the blame for, but then again... IMO, musicians shouldn't be shooting for major label contracts these days. Not if they have any sense. The realities are changing - heck, HAVE changed. Anyone see the "Getting Played" article in the LA Times two Sundays back? Interesting read regarding alternative methods of exposure for artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Getting played April 4, 2004 By Gina Piccalo, Times Staff Writer Calendar section Unfortunately, it's not available online without a fee. You can get a free 14 day trial, so if it's that important to you, just do a search for "getting played" and click on the link, and then sign up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barandine Vondenger Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 yeah everbody is ALWAYS tryin' to COPY ME. damn copiers.. I raised my ceedee price from four dollars to fifteen dollars so I could make MORE MONEY. and them damn record companies have copied me again.. see I was'nt selling ANY ceedees at four dollars a pop so I decided to make all my money back at once by selling them for fifteen smacks. see if I have so many units at four dollars a pop thats one price but if I have so many units at fifteen duckies a unit, I've DOUBLED MY EARNING POTENTIAL an', an', an' then I can take a WHOLE lot offen my taxes for UNSOLD UNITS. lost income and all. i still ain't making any money offen sales but i'm worth a lot more now.. ahahaha! you get my point? am i making sense? is this thang awn? check?check? test! wahhhhhampa whomp! yahhhh ahahaha. nurse! nurse! watson come quick! I need you! Frank Ranklin and the Ranktones WARP SPEED ONLY STREAM FRANKIE RANKLIN (Stanky Franks) <<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Kinesis Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Greetings. I'm new here, (yeah...ANOTHER guitar player), but I hope it's OK if I just jump on in. Anyone read the talk about the price increases on music downloads? From basically a buck, to, as I read, $1.25 to $2.99...per song. I don't even wanna pay a dollar! Lemme see if I can get this math straight. I can get 12 songs downloaded for $12. I can get a CD for about the same price. (Or less by just waiting to get it at a used CD store. Do artists get compensated for resale?) Granted, you may have the ability to pick and choose all your favorite overplayed, executive- committee-chosen, focus-group-researched, sample-cut-paste-loop-autotuned, corporate schlock that passes for music these days, that pacifies the unthinking masses who believe that it must be good "because it's on the radio". But it's still not a bargain. Considering the inferior sound quality, you're still actually paying more for less. (Well, actually, some of the mixes on some of this stuff would be inferior on the BEST playback system, but that's another thread I saw on here...so..) Some of the best music I've heard has been unknowns. There must be a better solution to this mess. Something that is fair to the artists and the consumers. Thievery is not the way to do it. (That goes for illegal downloads, AND the corporate Greed Machine). Hopefully, someone comes up with a model that allows distribution and promotion of high quality product, while still being fair to the people that actually CREATE the product. If the people who develop this concept can strike a balance between a REASONABLE operating profit, while still being fair to consumers AND artists, then we may have something. But, then again, I don't know if we can underestimate the declining ethical values of the American consumer, or their lemming mentality to just jump into whatever is the "same-old new thing this week". Maybe this will never get fully resolved to everyone's satisfaction. "Share it fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie" (Waters) Good day, Tele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by Lee Flier: It's like people who otherwise seem perfectly intelligent have been abducted by aliens and gotten lobotomies or something. I resemble that remark. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendmik Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 "Do artists get compensated for resale?" Nope. Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform. Mark Twain (1835-1910) -------------------- Reporter: "Ah, do you think you could destroy the world?" The Tick: "Ehgad I hope not. That's where I keep all my stuff!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerelli Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by Anderton: According to the LA Times, Universal is increasing the wholesale price of CDs another 40 cents to $9.49 per disc. Craig, this is typical of the industry. They can blame downloading but they did the same thing with vinyl when CDs started to catch on. The reason is probably atleast twofold. First, to make you buy the more expensive DVD and second to "offset" falling CD sales created by more people buying the DVD format and those downloading. http://www.myspace.com/jokerelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 I thought about this the other day, when considering replacing an old Neil Young CD that I seem to have lost. I realized that the only place I'd play it was here at my computer, which is attached to the best sound system in the house. Why would I want a piece of physical media at this point? Answer: I wouldn't. Solution: iTunes, baby. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwayne Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by Hendmik: "Do artists get compensated for resale?" Nope.Neither does General Motors when you re-sell a car. Nor do the plumbers, carpenters, electricians, when you re-sell a house. Living' in the shadow, of someone else's dream.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techristian Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 see if I have so many units at four dollars a pop thats one price but if I have so many units at fifteen duckies a unit, I've DOUBLED MY EARNING POTENTIAL an', an', an' then I can take a WHOLE lot offen my taxes for UNSOLD UNITS. lost income and all. i still ain't making any money offen sales but i'm worth a lot more now.. ahahaha! you get my point? So let me take it one step further! I will cut 10,000 copies and put them on the market for $100 each. Then I will get an advertisement in a national business paper saying that I'M GOING PUBLIC AND MY EQUITY IS 1 MILLION $ Then I'll list on the NYSE . HEY ! I JUST REALISED THAT I DON'T NEED A RECORD COMPANY ANYMORE. I AM A RECORD COMPANY! Dan http://musicinit.com/pvideos.html TEACHMEDRUMS.COM My Music Videos RED PILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 This is NOT the Way to Sell More CDs! No This is just their wrong vision about how to get more money from a CD sale. Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus at Fender Musical Instruments Company Instagram: guslozada Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología www.guslozada.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 things won't get right til they get fair. the industry is still pointing fingers at the consumer, like the pot calling the kettle black. when are more artist going to just start suing the industry, they've been doin what downloaders have been doing but for decades, I agree with phil though people shouldn't even focus on the industry, collectively we should all just look elsewhere...let them eat cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Originally posted by Anderton: I think they just don't get that a lot of people don't really want physical media, they want a license to put something into a format they dig, whether it's iPod, RAM player, cuts CD for their car, whatever. I like physical media. I like having something I can hold in my hand. In fact, the thing that pisses me off about CD's is that it's less physical media than LP's were. In specific, the cover art. I enjoyed having something substantial, with a BIG picture or artwork and some decent liner notes. Sometimes they included a poster. KISS 'Love Gun' had that little paper gun that came with it. They don't do stuff like that anymore. Now we're just going to download a file. "Pay me money. Here's your file...now buy something else, or go home." Music has become so heartless. Maybe the digitizing of sound wasn't such a good idea. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I miss the artwork and extra goodies from the vinyl days too Super 8, but OTOH, we do have certain advantages today. You can go to the artist's website and see a ton more stuff than they ever offered you with the LP's - lots of pictures, recording notes, tour updates, interactive chats with the band or reports from the studio or road, email notifications of new releases, upcoming shows, etc. etc. None of that was possible pre-Internet in the way that it is today. So technology giveth, and technology traketh away - but in this case, I think the advantages outweigh the losses. But I still like physical media too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawledge Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 I want to get joe satrianis 'is there love in space' but I don't want to pay $18.98 for it. oh well... joe loses and so do i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 <> Check out the http://www.weedshare.com site. I'm a big fan of their approach. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Kinesis Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Originally posted by Anderton: Check out the http://www.weedshare.com site. I'm a big fan of their approach.Interesting. Looks like most of the stuff is in there, except for a few artists who have no links to their website, in case someone WANTED to purchase a CD. But that could be a personal preference/affordability thing. Maybe they are happy with this method of distribution, or simply haven't or can't afford to make a run of CDs. I suppose that if one got enough widespread exposure, and people clamoring to actually buy a CD, it would then make sense to check into that option. One thing that I think would make it more attractive would be to offer all the songs in a streaming format that's "good enough to get the idea". Personally, I can't count on descriptions and comparisons to tell if I'm going to be interested in taking the time to download it. I'd like a preview first. Even a relatively mid-fi Real Audio preview would give me an idea. (Some of us have to be dragged kickin' and screamin' into the 21st century. I'm gonna hold out on hi-speed until I have no choice, or they lower the price to a reasonable amount...like THAT'LL ever happen.) Even if I did have hi-speed, I'd like to preview it first. It would be nice if something like this got REAL popular, and the Greed Merchants died a slow, horrible death. That is, until the powers that are behind something like this decided THEY now hold all the cards. (The practice squad is now the starting line-up.) Of course, if Goliath goes down, who's gonna fill all those stadiums, arenas and ampitheaters? Will Clear Channel and it's ilk wither up, (hopefully), to have those frequencies taken back by people who actually cater to the public, instead of the suits? Would it be the death of stadium-sized tours, (who needs them?), and the birth of more, and better, smaller live venues where the performers are actually life-size, and the sound doesn't float around with the wind, or bounce around like a hockey puck?. (OHHH...the horror of not seeing KISS' final, this-time-we-mean-it, bring-me-the-money, biggest-production-EVER, re-reunion reunion tour! Or guys strutting around a huge stage having seizures while shouting profanities with nary an instrument in sight. OR...some half-naked bimbo doing bad lip-syncing while making suggestive moves and 'singing' about satisfying herself to thousands of adoring preteens. Now THAT's entertainment.) Will we someday be able to again enjoy music for music's sake, instead of just being a throwaway soundtrack for increasingly more outrageous visual antics and verbal assaults designed only to tweak others, while lining the pockets of characters of dubious ethical and moral qualities? Hoping SOMEthing works, but have my doubts. (Guess I'm just an old fogey. ) Tele Kinesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 What's the standard artist payment on music nowadays? (Note I didn't say 'royalty' as many artists are no longer owners of their music - the songs are now "works for hire" and are owned by the record company.) I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceF Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 One aspect of this 40 cents increase that we haven't considered, not to say it's a smart thing to do, but just a thought. With the large media retailers like Best Buy etc being the ones actually paying the wholesale charge, perhaps the industry thinks that those retailers will eat some or all of that increase? It may be in the best interest of a large retailer to keep retail prices near where they are now even though the wholesale price is up just to keep the foot traffic at the current levels. Then smaller retailers would have to eat some also to compete. That's how you sell more TV's, refrigerators, vacuums and all the other various items that they sell. Advertise those "great low prices" on the CD's or DVD's to get the foot traffic. I can't tell you how many times I went to BB to buy something like a memory stick and ended up buying something more expensive. "Hmmm...", you think..."my fridge is kinda old and they've got some nice ones..." $800 later you have a new fridge, a CD (which they didn't make a lot of money on but really don't care) and everyone's happy. Seriously, every time I go there I spend about 15-20 minutes trying to justify financing a $6900 HDTV. Kinda like wanting a new car after leaving the auto show. Case in point: I know a gas station owner who loses 1 to 2 cents on every gallon of gas. He couldn't care less. People stop becase his prices are lower than the station across the street. He makes his real money on cigarettes, milk, candy, chips, watches, baseball caps, ATM fees and all the other things these stores sell. Low gas prices are just the best way to get you to stop. So before we rush to judgment let's wait and see if that 40 cents is passed on to the buyer in part or in whole. Let it all play out. If it's not chalk it up as a "smart business move" for whoever recognized it. If a large retail outlet holds current CD prices for say, 60 days after the wholesale increase goes into effect, and their overall profit holds or increases, there would be no reason to pass it on to the buyer. There a a lot of people who WILL drive past Joe's record store to save that 40 cents. And maybe buy a washing machine? If it is passed on to us then all of the above comments are true and the record companies are idiots! Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Originally posted by GusTraX: This is NOT the Way to Sell More CDs! No This is just their wrong vision about how to get more money from a CD sale.That has to be it. Raising prices in an attempt to sell more is like Bush cutting taxes to settle the national debt! OOPS! Wrong forum... Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblue1 Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 They're just building their campaign warchests for the big ad blitz wherein they convince us to go out and replace our CD collection with SACDs. It looked expensive at the time (hell, it still does), but I'm not so sure my audiophile pal's plan to replace all his CDs with high end vinyl wasn't the right idea after all... bookmark these: news.google.com | m-w dictionary | wikipedia encyclopedia | Columbia Encyclopedia TK Major / one blue nine | myspace.com/onebluenine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Interesting post, Lawrence, and I bet you're right. When I enter my local Best Buy I keep my head turned to the left wall, march straight to the CD section, grab my choice and squirt out the door ASAP. I think the clerks are catching on, the greeter now stands to the right of the door so I have to turn his way... and see that gorgeous 48" plasma thingie over his left shoulder. Bastids! Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard truth Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 And the wackiest thing is that this weekend I just bought 2 new music DVDs for approx. $12. For less than the price of a CD I got better audio quality, surround sound and video. One of them even came with 3-D glasses. And neither of them are so mainstream that they will sell in huge Britanny-like quantities. www.oranjproductions.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Originally posted by Anderton: According to the LA Times, Universal is increasing the wholesale price of CDs another 40 cents to $9.49 per disc. Let's get this straight. A format is on the wane (what with DVD-Audio and SACD sitting in the wings), sales are down, they're competing with downloaders, so what do you do? Why, raise the price of course, with no corresponding increase in value! That scream you heard was the industry shooting itself in the foot...again. Somehow this is all very sad.LOL, Craig... This is exactly what happened at Opryland Theme Park in the summer of 1995. The Rock & Roll show was a failure, so they cancelled it and fired all the performers, musicians, and a few techs. At the same time, with total admissions down (for the ??? year in a row..) they raised the ticket price from $30.95 to $31.95! This occured shortly before the end of the full time season, which also meant they'd be closing down at least one restaurant in favor of a family style barbecue. (Read: limited menu served buffet style = less overhead and less choice for customers.) Gaylord closed the park in 1998 because they couldn't manage it into the black. They struck a deal with Mills Malls to build Opry Mills. While I am an enthusiastic consumer of Mills unique malls, the loss of the park dealt a huge blow to local tourism, convention business, and family entertainment. I wonder when the major labels will finally implode and suffer the same fate as Opryland Theme Park. It seems to me the music business, as we know it, is dying a slow death, only to be replaced by smaller, independent labels who will discover how to promote their product for far less money than the current million dollar+ per album spending sprees that seem to accompany every major label album. Well, at least every major label album that gets any kind of real support. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Originally posted by Tele Kinesis: Greetings. I'm new here, (yeah...ANOTHER guitar player), but I hope it's OK if I just jump on in. Hey, welcome to our little forum. Feel free to jumo in any time - even if the water looks a bit muddy sometimes. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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