Theo Verelst Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 With the new software plugins/samplers/synthesis programs and possibly associated effects, and the midi support for all the various hardware instruments, including the ones with loadable sample sets (that will never fit over Midi), how do you make a library sounds/performances/"songs"/"combis"... Some instruments have an accompanying librarian PC program, some might have support of a VST with patch calling abilities, and of course software plugins can be called from the DAW/Sequencer/Host programs, and probably their settings can be influenced by CCs or something. But what happened to simply sending some sysex messages to put all modules, and to some extend softw plugins up for playing a sound from a library ? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalogGuy1 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I agree; there is no answer that is both universal and has good workflow. I use Cantabile. It can control both hardware and software, with a bit of work can send your sysex messages through whatever channels you decide, and can load whatever VSTs and effects you want. But that flexibility comes at the cost of being far less transparent than the methods you and I once used. It's great for developing complex setlists of songs, but there is nothing out there that provides Kore-like functionality of being a cross-VST sound browser coupled with being a hardware soundset browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 Yeah someetimes there are VSTs for managing sounds of specific machines, and a host program can have some librarian function. I (for other reasons) use "Carla" which can do some of that, and I could probably build my own librarian given time and some effort, but indeed I meant to ventilate my dislike for all the higher callings having been replaced by technocratic weeds. Playing the devil's advocate I could say there's even functionality available in modern instruments that goes unused by lack of (standard) Midi tools (like independent three way multitimbrality for the CP4). T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Simons Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The answer is MainStage, but you knew that already. Yamaha P515 & CK88, Pianoteq, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrkr Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The answer is MainStage, but you knew that already. That's not the answer on the Windows platform, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Simons Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 That's not the answer on the Windows platform, is it? You almost had it. The correct comment is, The Windows platform is not the answer, is it? Yamaha P515 & CK88, Pianoteq, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Actually, NKS is much more transparent and vastly easier to setup than host programs like Mainstage and Cantible. Requires an NI controller, but they're pretty nice. [video:youtube] Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfort Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Camelot is hoping to be what you are looking for. They claim to be a hardware and VST focused MainStage competitor, but for MacOS, Windows, and iOS: Camelot News from Musikmesse: https://sonicstate.com/news/2018/04/11/messe-2018-camelot-live-host-system/ Jordan Rudess talking Camelot at NAMM 2018 Fatar and Audio Modeling (of SWAM engine fame) are behind it, with Jordan Rudess being their spokesperson. They have a beta program you can register for, which will be starting soon. The Italian angle behind it is very interesting to me. I am quite curious to see what Fatar comes out with at Summer (or Winter...) NAMM. There are also developments going on with the next generation of MIDI which lead me to believe that the next generation of controllers will have significantly enhanced capability compared to what we have now. Personally I wonder if the instrument manufacturers have allowed their controllers to stagnate so much these last couple of years, knowing this impending convergence of software developments would allow the next Great Leap Forward. https://www.facebook.com/camelotsoftware/ http://www.camelotpro.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Simons Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Yeah, I saw that. Competition is good for everyone. What really caught my ear is that it will run on iOS, an environment that has no usable options in this regard as of yet. Yamaha P515 & CK88, Pianoteq, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Actually, NKS is much more transparent and vastly easier to setup than host programs like Mainstage and Cantible. Requires an NI controller, but they're pretty nice. NKS does not do what Mainstage does. It's a wonderful system for browsing and controlling individual patches, but is not a solution for setting up combinations/performances, which is what Theo is asking for. I think. Who the hell knows for sure? You'd be a bit closer with Akai's VIP software, as it at least allows for some splitting/layering of multiple sounds, but still miles away from what Mainstage and that class of software offers. As for Camelot, I won't hold my breath for any software that Fatar is involved with. Love their keybeds, hate their user interfaces. Hopefully this will be the one that changes the pattern, who knows. Frankly, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Gig Performer, but it's a great cross-platform option (PC & Mac) for those looking for Mainstage/Cantabile features without necessarily needing to bend their brains to get a rig built. And I say this as a long time Mainstage user, who is seriously considering jumping to GP v2. So there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardware Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I used to do this in the Ancient Scope DSP PCI Cards. One of these used for 300 bucks is a complete mixing/recording environment with FX, Synths and the B4000 from Ferrofish. I see guys using these 16 year old cards live still and sounding great with ASIO Sampled Instruments. If you liked Tangerine Dream synths or Hans Zimmer Grammy synths that would be these. Personally I prefer a controller with 8 zones and 127 instant performances with 1000s more on a stick. Gigaperformer is the most up to date software for this though. Lots of RME Giga V2 rigs with QSC K12s in Nevada showrooms. For 1/3 of the price with excellent synths and FX the Scope PCI Cards kill it. Any PC with a lowly i3 works. Number crunching is done on the DSP Card. Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig Performer Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 And we are ready to welcome you to the fold :-) ---------------- And I say this as a long time Mainstage user, who is seriously considering jumping to GP v2. So there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Enthusiastic thumbs up for GigPerformer here. It really de-mystifies the process. gear list.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 And we are ready to welcome you to the fold :-) ---------------- And I say this as a long time Mainstage user, who is seriously considering jumping to GP v2. So there. you should credit your sig line (if that's what it is) to the person you quoted, since, you know, there might be some bias here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markay Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 And we are ready to welcome you to the fold :-) ---------------- And I say this as a long time Mainstage user, who is seriously considering jumping to GP v2. So there. Would you like to provide a concrete example of how Gig Performer out performs MainStage in handling sysex or are you just going to drop in each time Gig Performer is mentioned here and endorse a comment? Suggestion for sig line "Developer of Gig Performer and unbiased and enthusiastic endorser of every unsubstantiated favourable comment about Gig Performer". A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Simons Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 I think that whichever software you are most likely to find in professional situations, theater productions, orchestra pits, etc. is a persuasive indicator. I'll just leave that there. Yamaha P515 & CK88, Pianoteq, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Actually, NKS is much more transparent and vastly easier to setup than host programs like Mainstage and Cantible. Requires an NI controller, but they're pretty nice. NKS does not do what Mainstage does. It's a wonderful system for browsing and controlling individual patches, but is not a solution for setting up combinations/performances, which is what Theo is asking for. I think. Who the hell knows for sure? Yeah, who knows, who really cares. He did mention the librarian functionality several times so I went with that. Mainstage ain't a librarian; NKS come far closer to that with its plug-and-play approach. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 BTW, does Mainstage still have that limitation whereby it traps incoming MIDI Program Changes requiring separate instances of a soft synth for each patch? If so, you'd have to consider it the anti-librarian software. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 And we are ready to welcome you to the fold :-) ---------------- And I say this as a long time Mainstage user, who is seriously considering jumping to GP v2. So there. you should credit your sig line (if that's what it is) to the person you quoted, since, you know, there might be some bias here. That's not his sig. It's just a poorly constructed quote of what Mr. Golly said above.Suggestion for sig line "Developer of Gig Performer and unbiased and enthusiastic endorser of every unsubstantiated favourable comment about Gig Performer". A quick skim of his posts show him mostly replying to a providing support and update info in a thread about Gig Performer. The post above is the only time I found (again, in a quick skim) him doing what you describe. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Man, this thread became exhausting way quicker than most around this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 A quick skim of his posts show him mostly replying to a providing support and update info in a thread about Gig Performer. well, this is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 I made a database program for DX patches in the 80s, in it's kind the first. Invisible guidance made that same functionality not exactly available, but many parts (that I invented myself at the time, mostly without knowing similar solutions), like searching for patch names, velocity curves, gathering up banks of sounds, are. I think I'd prefer an (F)OS librarian with overseeable Sysex use for simply finding sounds for given synths/plugins and sending them with a mouse-click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 In the FWIW department for the three of us here that use Bidule :they recently added sysex support, however it's somewhat limited. Messages can be up to 32 bytes in length and the output of the "sysex creator" module must be connected directly to a hardware midi output. So no patch dumps, but you can probably hack up a way to use your midi controller to do parameter changes on hardware synths. I'm looking into whether checksumming can be done. [Edit - looks doable. Also forgot to say that Bidule added "support for passthrough SysEx when connecting input and output directly." (their description)] There's also a Mac/Windows/Linux app called "Ctrl" that lets the midi geek custom-design control panels with on-screen buttons, knobs, faders, etc. to control hardware. There's already a few user-supplied panels for some synths on the site. I believe it's free or shareware http://ctrlr.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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