A little help from my Musicplayer friends....what would you do ?

[shikawkee]

Hey gang, I need a little help and I'm hoping some of you can relate:

 

A while back, over six months ago, I sent some of my work, some of it one-of-a-kind originals, to another Musicplayer folderite who regularly posts here. With my package I included a self-addressed, pre-paid Fed Ex envelope and receipt so that my work could be returned to me without hassle or cost to the recipient. However, all this time later I cannot for some reason get my work back from this person.

 

I have written e-mails at least once a week for six months, I have placed phone calls, I have spoken to people who know this person all to no avail. To their credit this person has sworn at least twice to 'put it in the mail tomorrow as I'll be going by a Fed Ex office' but still, nothing.

 

I have lost volumes of opportunities, work and pay due to this situation. I'm sick and tired of telling clients, 'Oh, I'll have those copies any day now'. It's become a very unfunny joke.

 

Maybe they lost my work, maybe they're using it to get clients of their own, maybe they sent it to a client and they lost it....I dunno' and I don't care at this point. The person in question has told me nothing but 'It's in the mail' every time I do talk to them or hear from them and berates me for badgering them about it.

 

(Personally I'm shocked anyone does any business at all with this person)

 

Does anyone here have any ideas ? I'm about at my wits end and I'd rather not do anything that I consider stupid to retrieve what is rightly mine.

I'm very open to any reasonable suggestions.

 

Thanks very much.

 

Ed

[Sylver]

You could always "out" them.

[Phait]

Sounds like you got yourself in a tough spot... there seems to be alot of nice, straight up people here but you just never know. But hey we've all been in that time where we'll say we'll do this/that and something keeps us from doing just that, although we really intend to get "that" finished... it could be this person is quite busy, or maybe needs some shipping money yet.. or maybe they are being stingy.. in either case just politely yet firmly ask to get your stuff back ASAP.

 

Next time be more cautious?

[Lee Flier]

Hmm. Let me get this straight - you sent your ONLY copies of your work to someone else that you don't know? And it was something important enough that you lost "volumes of opportunities, work and pay" due to it being in someone else's hands? Wasn't it something you could've made a copy of and sent the copy to this person?

 

That aside... I assume you don't live in the same city as this person. If you know other people who know him/her, and they are in the same city, maybe someone could pay them a personal visit and try to get the stuff back from them and mail it themselves... or else find out the truth about why they haven't sent it.

[shikawkee]

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

I thought about 'outing' them, and may still, but I generally feel that is uncooth and uncool though I may soon have no other option.

 

And yes Lee, I sent SOME of my work that I had no copies of along with other work which was copied. No, this is not a person we all don't know. It is someone who claims to do a lot of work in the audio industry. In fact, they post very often on this board and I THOUGHT they were friendly, courteous and professional. BOY WAS I WRONG !!!

 

As for the shipping, like I said I gave them a pre-paid shipping label AND packaging to send the items back a loooong time ago.

 

I've really tried, ask my wife and other friends of mine here on this board who I've told in private, I've REALLY tried to talk reason and substance with this person. All I get are lies.

 

And finally, no, we don't live in the same city but y'all know who this person is. Believe me, y'all know....

[jackpine]

Well, maybe this thread will shake it loose before you have to PUBLICLY ask for the return of your music.

[shikawkee]

Originally posted by jackpine:

Well, maybe this thread will shake it loose before you have to PUBLICLY ask for the return of your music.

One can only pray !

[ani]

I was thinking the same thing as what Lee said prior to reading her post. I hope that you will learn a serious lesson about backing up your work as a result of this. One should never assume that another person is as responsible as what they think they should be.

 

I hope that you will get your materials back, but as far as outing the person, you should take some of the responsibility yourself for not securing your interest prior to sending your work off to Internet acquaintances; after all, this is the music biz. Yes, many and most of us here on the boards are responsible, but although there may be no ill intent involved with the other party involved; he/she may have misplaced the materials or even lost them. If you fear them using your materials for their own gain, properly securing your rights to the materials by registering the works in the library of congress prior to sending them off would have been a wise thing to do.

 

I may seem calloused, but after years of dabbling in the business, there are just certain things you come to know and learn not to do. Never turn loose of your only copies, especially if you feel that you will merited business opportunities by using them as examples.

 

Seriously, I do hope you get your stuff back, but I'm not going to frown on the other guy any more than I do your carelessness.

[Jeebus]

Be generous and offer a 2 week return period before you out the person. If it isn't in your hands within 2 weeks, out him.

 

As previously mentioned, you would be wise to have back ups of all your shit to prevent this from happening in the future.

 

Jeebus

[shikawkee]

Originally posted by Jeebus:

As previously mentioned, you would be wise to have back ups of all your shit to prevent this from happening in the future.

Jeebus

Yes, this thought has occurred to me in the last six months and I concur I was incredibly stupid to trust this person. It won't happen again but like I said, it is someone we all know very well here in this forum and is also fairly well known in the industry....supposedly.

 

I have learned a great lesson. Thanks for the replies thus far.

[Lee Flier]

I don't even think it's a matter of whether you trust somebody... I would never put someone else in a position of being responsible for my ONLY copy of something that important, if I have a choice - because I wouldn't want to put them in the position of something unforeseen happening (like it gets lost in shipment, or their house catches on fire, or whatever) and how bad they would feel about it.

 

In fact it's quite possible this person DID lose your work and feels so bad they don't want to tell you, or think that given enough time they might find it again. Not a very forthright way to handle the situation, of course, but not uncommon either.

 

I will also add that I've been very disappointed of late by the behavior of a lot of "professionals" in the industry. I think there's a general malaise because of so many people losing work, studios closing, etc. and a lot of audio folks seem to have a desperate air about them lately, and do a lot of pretty umm... undignified things as a result.

 

I'm not saying this to rub salt in the wounds, I just feel bad that this happened (especially having met you and thinking you're a great guy with a great attitude!) and trying to help you look at it realistically and protect yourself. I hope it works out somehow.

[Barandine Vondenger]

I know EXACTLY what you should do good humon'. Go to your nearest DEPARTMENT STORE and go to the cosmetics aisle.

ask the saleslady for the deepest red lipstick they got. SMEAR thet lippy stik alt over your'n lips and lower face. smear it in really goode and get it way out all aroun' your lips too like a big ol' dum' cloun'..

now KISS ALL THAT STUPID SHIRT GOOT BYE..

KISS IT! say bye bye..

now shut the he

I mean; I hope everting werks oot for ye' arrr! I mean:aye!

ahhh!

ehhh!

ahem..

[shikawkee]

Thanks everyone for your comments, even the demoralizing and/or funny ones, I appreciate the sentiments.

 

I guess the main reason I'm pissed more than the lost work is this person has out-and-out lied to me at least twice. Just bold-faced lied and said it was 'in the mail'. I reminded them again and again that if there was a problem we could talk about it like rational adults yet they continued to mislead me. This in turn casued me to make promises that I ultimately couldn't keep based on those lies which made me look even worse to my collegues.

 

Yes, I was stupid. But I didn't deserve to be lied to. More than once. No-one does.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, that sucks. When people lie to you it pretty much leaves your hands tied.

 

Seriously, I'd look into having somebody in the same city as this person pay them a visit, if possible.

[Duddits]

I often find that I agree completely with Lee, but would emphasize one part in a stronger, less diplomatic way.

 

It is so standard to send copies rather than originals (which makes sense for SO MANY REASONS), that I think that your predicament is entirely your fault. It strikes me as bizarre that you would send originals, but predictable that you might never get them back. And while you may be the good, wonderful, trusting, nice person in all of this, and they may be the bastard, that doesn't change the fact that this is nothing but your mistake.

 

Of course, I truly hope you get your stuff back. Hopefully the threat of "outing" them will either get it back, or get an explanation.

 

If it's any consolation, I did a really stupid thing with some very good audio equipment that may have damaged it, so we're both in the same boat of paying a stiff price for a lesson we should not have needed to learn.

[Barandine Vondenger]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Yeah, that sucks. When people lie to you it pretty much leaves your hands tied.

 

Seriously, I'd look into having somebody in the same city as this person pay them a visit, if possible.

WHOA DAMN!

hey lee ahahaha! uh dang girl? what? a little "pulp fiction action"? how 'bout we send you? ahahaa!

You wanna be on BRAIN DETAIL? ahahaha!

you gonna give the EZEKIAL SPEECH?

how bout dude just recreates what he can and lets go the whole think and cholks it all op to his own dom thinkings.

the udder guy is a rat sure and he'll "get his" and you know what comes aroun' goes aroun' and all that rot if not this life then the next.

hey.lee girl how about taking some of that rage you got goin' and workin me over?

\I like rough girls.. an' you seem really rough and mean. mmm.!

i'm like that watch.

you know, that certain wrist watch?

i ain't much to look at but I make up for it by sleeping really heavy.

I just had a little cosmetic work done myself. a little LYPO and a tuck and a few hair transplants and i'm lookin better than ever and i owe it all to GOD..

 

HERE is me on the beach with a few budds. I'm wearing the big cross. it ain't COMPENSATING for anything .

http://www.wxnr.com/images/unclesol.jpg

[Jeebus]

Sounds like you've got yourself a proposal there, Lee.

 

Yay or nay?

[Barandine Vondenger]

A Girl Has What I Need A Women Knows My Cure

I like cookies I like jam

I like women who don't give a damn

I likes 'em hot

and I likes 'em sweet

I like that stuff

a girl can't be beat

I likes 'em in the mornin'

and I like 'em late at night

I like a tough girl

a rough girl feels right

I don't want a sissy girl

she got to be a femme

a girl that's all female

I want a her not a him

true beauty comes from inside

from a heart so good and pure

a girl has what I need a women knows my cure

Please GOD send me a woman

with the sweet soul of a girl

with a heart so good and pure

like the finest ocean pearl

Send me a sexy sweet heart

who likes to dance for fun

someone to hold close tonite night

who names me her only one

GOD send me my true love

then I'll marry her

a girl has what i need a woman knows my cure

[kylen]

If it's any consolation, I did a really stupid thing with some very good audio equipment that may have damaged it, so we're both in the same boat of paying a stiff price for a lesson we should not have needed to learn.

Same here Cat...

I learned the lesson with some stereo speakers I lend to a friend who laughingly told me he cranked them up so hard one of 'em started walking across the room prior to the coil getting fried - he mentioned that I'd need to replace the speaker. Hehe - great lesson for me it was. I've had to put a few 'friends' off too - after that no one gets anything that I would need to keep in pristine shape...the test is - could I afford to have this stolen or wrecked ? If yes then it can be borrowed...

[ani]

Originally posted by shikawkee:

Thanks everyone for your comments, even the demoralizing and/or funny ones, I appreciate the sentiments.

 

I guess the main reason I'm pissed more than the lost work is this person has out-and-out lied to me at least twice. Just bold-faced lied and said it was 'in the mail'. I reminded them again and again that if there was a problem we could talk about it like rational adults yet they continued to mislead me. This in turn casued me to make promises that I ultimately couldn't keep based on those lies which made me look even worse to my collegues.

 

Yes, I was stupid. But I didn't deserve to be lied to. More than once. No-one does.

I hope that you did not read my post as demoralizing, as it was not intended as such. More so, I was attempting to bring it to your attention that you must realize the nature of the business you are attempting to dabble in. Surely, if you have been in this business long enough to have suffered a great loss from turning your original loose, then you should know that you are swimming in shark infested waters when you dive in. If not, it's time you learn to use caution in trusting your originals to ANYONE but yourself.

 

For you to jump to conclusions in saying that the guy is bull face lying; this very well could be an unfair assumption. If you receive the disk in the mail in a few days, processed through automated postal equipment and snapped into several pieces, then you would feel really bad for doubting the guy; would you blame him for the damaged mail?

 

I've been at the Post Office for nearly 19 years now, and CD's are among our #1 damaged mails received; second only to cassette tapes. Sometimes packages containing disks are shredded beyond recognition while disks are snapped in half, or shattered like glass; it depends on the packaging and the type of equipment the mails get sent through. If CD's are not properly packaged, and if they do not contain "MARKINGS" such as "Hand Cancel", "Do Not Automate" and other precautionary markings; they are subject to destruction by being processed along with normal type mailings.

 

Not defending the other guy, but again just reiterating the fact that one should never send out the only copy they have.

[Salyphus]

Are we talking about music here, or visual art, or what?

 

I would assume music, but I can't even imagine how someone could only have one copy of their music, that doesn't make any sense at all. You didn't save the project files or the WAV files? A redbook CD is not an audio archive in the first place, you have to extract the audio data from the CD and it is not a transparent process. You don't necessarily get the same audio file out that you put in.

 

Given how easy it is to burn multiple copies, I can't even fathom this. That's why I am wondering if maybe you aren't actually talking about music but rather a painting or something that can't be easily duplicated.

 

As Ani pointed out, your package could easily be lost or destroyed in the mail anyway, so what you did was silly regardless of the recipient's actions. Which does not excuse those actions at all, but you also have to take responsibility here.

 

Sorry if my tone comes off as harsh, I just hope you (and others) can learn a lesson from this. Unless you have data backed up in multiple storage formats in multiple locations, you don't -really- have it. And don't keep a redbook CD as your only method of archiving, you need to store mixdowns in WAV or AIFF format, and I would also keep the original multitrack project as well (assuming there was one).

 

Sorry you had to learn the hard way. I hope it still works out.

 

I see no reason not to mention who the person is.

[shikawkee]

Originally posted by Salfish:

Are we talking about music here, or visual art, or what?

 

I would assume music, but I can't even imagine how someone could only have one copy of their music, that doesn't make any sense at all.

No, it was visual arts I was speaking of, not music. I'm not THAT stupid. And the only reason I sent originals of SOME, not all, of my work is that it's work that can't be copied like collateral pieces and direct mail and what not. They were one-of-a-kind pieces in some cases. That's why I was so pissed.

 

Again, my stupid fault for trusting but I didn't need the extra lying. It certainly complicated things a lot on my end.

[kylen]

I didn't think you were stupid - just untrained so to speak - I hate those kinds of lessons too !

[Nawledge]

6 months?, mails?, phone calls?, conversations with friends to no avail?, and on top of that a public request for advice that was nothing but respectful?

--------------

 

I say out them.

say their name.

tell us who they are.

use all Caps.

above all feel no remorse.

[Salyphus]

Originally posted by shikawkee:

No, it was visual arts I was speaking of, not music. I'm not THAT stupid. And the only reason I sent originals of SOME, not all, of my work is that it's work that can't be copied like collateral pieces and direct mail and what not. They were one-of-a-kind pieces in some cases. That's why I was so pissed.

 

Again, my stupid fault for trusting but I didn't need the extra lying. It certainly complicated things a lot on my end.

Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot more sense!

 

There was never any place where you said what type of materials, and I know pretty much everyone assumed it was music since this is a music forum and all

 

I hope you don't think I implied that I thought you were stupid, not at all! Everyone makes mistakes, it's how we deal with them and what we learn from them that is the true measure.

 

Next time I would recommend sending high resolution slides, if possible.

 

As I said, I see no harm in 'outing' the person here. Go for it! There is nothing at all unethical about doing so, and it may go a long way towards initiating the dialog that you need.

[shikawkee]

Originally posted by Salfish:

[QBThanks for the clarification, that makes a lot more sense!

 

As I said, I see no harm in 'outing' the person here. Go for it! There is nothing at all unethical about doing so, and it may go a long way towards initiating the dialog that you need.[/QB]

Thanks for the note. I have actually heard from the person in question today and for the time being I'm going to abstain from outing them. Once again they've promised to return my work. I'm willing to let things be if I truly get my stuff back and can close this sad chapter once and for all.

 

Thanks to everyone again for all their advice and opinions. It was all much appreciated. Truly.

[whitefang]

One more bit of advice if this last "promise" falls through...

 

If you can prove that the work in question has caused a loss of revenue, there may be a way to get restitution through small claims court. Although you both live in different cities(and states, I'm assuming), there might be a way for that to happen. It might seem a tight-assed thing to do, but if it involves your livelihood, you need to do what's right for YOU.

 

This person might have lost or damaged this material, and is putting you off out of the fear of what you might think otherwise. Been there and have done that. And if that person is reading these posts, I'd like to tell them that it just never works out. Best be upfront, and ask what you can do to make up for it.

 

Whitefang

[Jokerelli]

I'm sure you will get it back as soon as their "copyright" comes back.

[Barandine Vondenger]

HEY sikawakinkdunkggmnnh uh

I went to your pages and I read about your live setup. way cool. I bet it sounds great. You would just laaaaf and laff if I told you what mine was. oh yeah I'm just laffin thankin' about my set-up compared to yours.

I bet you sound like a million bucks.

goode lucke with your career dude.

beware of those who seek to take what you finde.

[shikawkee]

Originally posted by arellspencer:

HEY sikawakinkdunkggmnnh uh

I went to your pages and I read about your live setup. way cool. I bet it sounds great. You would just laaaaf and laff if I told you what mine was. oh yeah I'm just laffin thankin' about my set-up compared to yours.

I bet you sound like a million bucks.

goode lucke with your career dude.

beware of those who seek to take what you finde.

Thanks for the kind words Arell. I checked out your sound files. Pretty good yourself. Keep rockin' buddy !

 

Here's the site Arell's talking about if anyone cares:

 

www.edpettersen.com

 

Again, I really do appreciate the feedback given here.