Sam Mullins Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Ive been wanting the smallest possible 49 key unit with either built-in sound/speakers or to drive an iPad. This is not for playing out or even my studio...its so I do something useful while vegging out watching TV. Wanted 4 octaves with full size keys to practice voicing and scale/chord stuff. On the surface it seems ideal because it is the smallest possible width and has a little stand that will mount the iPad directly on the back. All the bundled software also makes it a pretty good deal. Anyone have experience with this thing? (Or even the 25 version). My main concern is that the key action is acceptable (not expecting great) and that it works with IPad without tech hassle (enough of that in my day job). Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I have the irig keys Pro. I can attest that it's plug n play and plays well with Korg Module and M1 for iPad. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Thanks Dr88s. I've done some reading and one thing that is sub-optimal on this unit: because it is both an audio and MIDI interface (good thing overall), IOS evidently will not use the iPad internal speakers...which I would like to use in my couch potato sessions. If true, then I guess one could argue that it is an Apple limitation. But it would be nice if you could defeat the audio capability on the keyboard so that the iPad just thinks it is a MIDI controller only. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donsta Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I found this with a google search. Not a recent video but gives you an idea of things you can do with the iRig product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Thanks. I watched a bunch of the youtube videos. Decided to take a chance on it. Getting Soundtank 3 (along with a bunch of other software) in the bundle kind of makes it a no-brainer. Frankly, my main requirements are met: 4 octaves and as light and small as possible. As long as the thing works it will serve my purpose. I'll let everyone know what I think after I've played it a few days. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humannoyed Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I too am intrigued by it's diminutive size. Looking forward to your review! "It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule." "You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 One word of caution - the cable connecting it to your iPad is a mini-DIN to lightning. At a recent show where I was using it, one of the venue's techs tried to help me out by plugging the cable into the back of the keyboard not realizing it was a DIN and bent the pins rendering it unusable. Be gentle with the cable and don't let anyone else unfamiliar with the controller plug it in. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Thanks for the heads up. I once ruined a similar connector on an external hard drive by trying to force it. No plans to use it for shows...but who knows? If it works well, it would be very handy for impromptu gatherings or songwriting sessions ( as opposed to hauling Stage and/or Kronos).. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 No plans to use it for shows...but who knows? If it works well, it would be very handy for impromptu gatherings or songwriting sessions ( as opposed to hauling Stage and/or Kronos).. I hadn't either, but we recently did Toto's Africa at a show and I didn't have enough hands to play the little pan flute line in the second verse. The iM1 app had a patch that nailed it, and it was simple enough to teach my wife to play the descending scale. Between the iRig keys, cabling, iPad, direct box, and a simple stand, it all fit in one very compact case that weighed less than 10 pounds, a heck of a lot easier to carry than a whole other keyboard and accessories. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 I promised a mini-review after I received my unit. Here ya go: Basics ------ It's a 4 active keyboard controller with built-in audio interface. It interfaces directly with iOS Lightning or MAC/PC USB via provided cables (mini-DIN connector on keyboard side). I won't go into all the details here since you can read that on the IK Multimedia site. Host integration ----------------- I didn't have any problem getting it to work with iOS. It doesn't use the iPad speakers; apparently iOS recognizes the audio device and you don't get any choice once it's up. It would be nice if you could defeat the audio functionality on the keyboard so that iOS just thinks it is a USB controller. But I will likely be using it with headphones most of the time anyway. Responsiveness/latency was very acceptable on my iPad Air 2 with lowest latency settings on various software packages. When I connected to my Win10 laptop, again it came up with no problems. Since there is no custom driver (e.g. ASIO), the standard window audio drivers have a bit more latency. It's OK but not as good as the iPad. However, I probably won't use this configuration much. If I'm going to the trouble of booting my laptop then I will be using my normal keyboards (Kronos/Stage) as controllers and RME Babyface as an audio interface. This unit can be powered off the USB connector. However, when using for iOS, you either have to use batteries or the optional power supply. One worry I have is that the power supply connector seems fragile. Note that both of the mini-DIN cables are only a couple feet long. One warning: They include an iPad stand that fits on the back of the back of the keyboard unit. There are pictures on the web site that make it look like this will clamp on tightly without sitting on a solid surface. This is not the case. It may not be a big deal for many people, but part of my whole purpose was to play this on my lap. I got it somewhat permanently attached using velcro on the bottom surface and gaffers tape on the back surface. Keyboard and controllers ------------------------- This is an un-weighted action that has an interesting combination of being fairly light as you first press the key and increasing resistance as you press further. I think this actually helps a bit when playing piano on it. (Somewhat like the action of a Nord Electro 3 I had years ago.) Of course, it isn't as good as the action on high-end keyboards like the Kronos. However, I feel it is better than many low-end controllers. At least on a par with the MOXF 6 I had for a couple years. I did notice that adjusting the keyboard response curve on Korg Module made a huge difference in the perceived playability of Ivory. The slider mechanism for the pitch and mod functions is workable for me. I haven't done much with the knob controllers/pads. The programming of these is done on the keyboard itself as opposed to separate software. I'm sure this makes the programming more arduous, but on the plus side you don't have to worry about software updates and host compatibility issues. (Sampletank seems to come up with default assignments to these controllers for typical tweakable parameters). One pleasant surprise: there is a pedal jack that can be used for either sustain or controller pedals (with no reconfiguration) Software -------- The included software is a great value. I won't list everything but basically you get iOS versons of Sampletank, Miroslav Philharmonik, and Syntronik Pro-V (prophet emulator). For Mac/PC you get full versions of those same instruments plus T-RackS Deluxe. One pleasant surprise was the piano included in the Miroslav Philharmonik, which I preferred to the standard Sampletank offerings. It doesn't compete with iOS Ivory, but is a good alternative. Summary ------- I'm happy with this purchase. It does a nice job of fulfilling my primary requirements of having 4 octaves in a small/light package with minimal technical fuss. If you have similar purposes then I can recommend it. If your goal is a more comprehensive soft synth controller (i.e. lots of knobs and configurability), then it's probably not the right solution. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donsta Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Thanks for the review Sam. I may wait awhile but I see one of these joining my iPad sometime in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Here is my battery-powered couch potato rig: http://www.stickmanor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/irig_keys_small.jpg I managed to get the iPad holder securely attached with some velcro so it works in my lap also. Normally I use headphones, but in this case I had the Bose mini soundlink attached. I'm loving playing Ivory during commercials! Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I don't want to be too negative - but isn't this board a bit too expensve for what it is? I mean what does it do that any other 50$ or so midi keyboard cannot do? I see that it can be operated on AA batteries. That is a plus compared to many small midi keyboards, as those seem to be buspowered usually. But apart from this? Am I missing something? 2019 W.Hoffmann T122 upright, Roland FP-50, Roland RD64, Korg Microkorg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 I don't want to be too negative - but isn't this board a bit too expensve for what it is? I mean what does it do that any other 50$ or so midi keyboard cannot do? I see that it can be operated on AA batteries. That is a plus compared to many small midi keyboards, as those seem to be buspowered usually. But apart from this? Am I missing something? The only $50 controller I see on Sweetwater is a Korg nanoKey, Compare to this, the iRig has: - 4 octaves of full size keys instead of 2 octaves of chiclet keys - more controller knobs and pads - a built-in audio interface -$600 worth of bundled software You could do similar comparisons for other price points but I believe the main thing for most people buying this would be the built in audio interface. For me the main thing was that I required 4 octaves and no extra width occupied by controllers. That leaves three candidates, the other two being Akai controllers that weigh 2-3 times as much and cost $400-$500. So it was cheaper than the other controllers that met my needs. For other people with other needs, they may find something much cheaper. FWIW, I already had a cheap bus-powered 25 note controller (Samson Graphite 25) that is fine for some things....but try actually practicing two hand jazz voicing on that. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I bought a CME M-Key some time back. It is basically just this: 49 keys and nothing else. I just searched it via Google and saw that it is no longer available, so not sure about the price point, but it was likely under 100. I just don't see how someone can spent nearly 400$, just use it for 49 keys and actually think that this is a good deal. But okay. 2019 W.Hoffmann T122 upright, Roland FP-50, Roland RD64, Korg Microkorg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-string-man Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 The only thing that puts me off is the touch strips instead of pitch and mod wheels. I have the 37 key iRig keys PRO with 37 full size keys, and it is excellent, even though it is a different beast to the I/O 49. Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 I just don't see how someone can spent nearly 400$, just use it for 49 keys and actually think that this is a good deal. I didnt see who said that, but I would agree that is not a good deal considering you can get it almost everywhere for $300. (Thats what I paid for mine.). I would like to have spent less. For example, if they sold the same exact thing without the audio interface for $200, I would have bought that. But Ive got better things to do with my time than fret over things that dont exist. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Of course you do. Nobody ever questioned this. But to return to your original post and especially the title of this thread: I think it was not worth the money, especially if you use it for your purpose. Better alternatives include my mentioned M-Key or e.g. a Samson Graphite 49 or basically any other 49 key masterkeyboard out there. And actually I believe something with speakers and internal piano sounds would be even better for your purpose, because I wouldn't want to bother with those different devices and the wiring for just practicing piano voicings. The standard advice here would probably be the Yamaha NP12. Just to clarify: I was pretty much in your situation, and I bought pretty much the same setup (different masterkeyboard but whatever). It turned out that in the end I rarely used it. Too much hassle to move the stuff, connect the devices, and so on. Using Korg Module with the Bose Soundlink still didn't sound good because the Bose coloured the sound pretty heavily. For an okayish sound, the NP12 was about as good, and grabbing the NP12, switching it on, and start playing is simply so much faster than setting up the equipment from above. Also, the NP12 is just 200. Of course it is more bulky than your board, but at least there are no wires and no IPad standing on your board, which must be really awkward if you play it with your masterkeyboard on your lap. 2019 W.Hoffmann T122 upright, Roland FP-50, Roland RD64, Korg Microkorg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 Better alternatives include my mentioned M-Key or e.g. a Samson Graphite 49 or basically any other 49 key masterkeyboard out there. The M-Key would have been worth a whirl. The others have controllers on the side and I dont want the extra width, And actually I believe something with speakers and internal piano sounds would be even better for your purpose, because I wouldn't want to bother with those different devices and the wiring for just practicing piano voicings. The standard advice here would probably be the Yamaha NP12. Agree that something with internal sounds and speakers would be better. But the np-12 is a non-starter; its 13 inches wider than the iRig (wider than the Casio keyboard with speakers that I was trying to replace for couch duties) What I REALLY want is a Yamaha Reface CP with four full octaves and speakers above the keys. Oh well. You are right that its a bit of a wiring hassle. The proof will be in the pudding: do I use this more than the 61 note Casio with speakers that I had previously. Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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