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Kurzweil SP1


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I like the interface.

Nice...

Kurzweil K2661 + full options,iMac 27",Mac book white,Apogee Element 24 + Duet,Genelec 8030A,Strymon Lex + Flint,Hohner Pianet T,Radial Key-Largo,Kawai K5000W,Moog Minitaur,Yamaha Reface YC + CP, iPad 9th Gen, Arturia Beatstep + V Collection 9

 

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hmm - still waiting on my baackordered SP6 from Sweetwater to replace my (heavy) PC1x ... still think the SP6 is the way to go

PC1x, Hammond XK1c, Deep Mind 6, MS500 (gig rig)

Kurz PC4, Mini Moog Model D, Little Phatty, Hammond M3, Leslie 145, viscount op-3, Behringer model D, Roland GAIA.. (home studio)

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Looks interesting. Props to Kurzweil for retaining 5-pin MIDI (and an external control section, it seems), expression pedal, audio in ON FULL-SIZE JACKS, and so on. And the weight is right.

 

I like the idea of dedicated volume controls for each part, plus EQ on the panel (it's not super-ergonomic: one knob, and Bass/Mid/Treble buttons). And you can't split/layer in the same category (so you can't split clav/organ, or layer strings/pad).

 

I presume the same Medeli action as in the SP6?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

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One bit I don't get, it says:

 

Pianos from our German D Artis Grand.

EP's from our Forte® SE.

 

I thought the German D and the EPs of the Artis and Forte SE were identical...?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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One bit I don't get, it says:

 

Pianos from our German D Artis Grand.

EP's from our Forte® SE.

 

I thought the German D and the EPs of the Artis and Forte SE were identical...?

 

Nope. The German D in the Artis and SP6/1 is based on the same samples as in the Forte SE. But the Artis lacks the EP (Rhodes) samples of the Forte SE.

LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-)

 

 

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Whoops, I knew that. Esp. since I have an Artis7. Too early in the morning. Thanks for posting the correction, TK and MJ. Though Tom, doesn't the SP6 also have the larger (Forte SE) version of the grand?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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A nice entry into the budget board market, especially the weight. But splitting EPs or clavs on one side and organ on the other is a must for me, and I think lots of folks, in a gigging board. Kinda surprising if that's not possible.

 

I'm pretty much done with 88-note keyboards for gigging. But that's just me. I know some folks think it's better for splits.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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The SP1 seems to an interesting option if one doesn't require the KB3 organ and all of the bells and whistles that are on the SP6. The dedicated EQ knobs, which the SP6 lacks, are a big plus for me for live gigging. The 1/4" audio inputs, which I think the SP6 also lacks, are also a nice option to have for gigging with a second board. Hopefully, the price should be at least a couple of hundred bucks lower than the SP6's $1295.

 

I'd love to see both the SP1 and the SP6 offered in small-footprint 73 / 76 key formats, similar to the Artis 7 and SP4-7.

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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The Artis German Grand is a six layer, looped multisample. On the Forte SE, the pianos and e. pianos are based on 2Gb of additional waverom. I guess, more dense keyranges, more layers, longer loops on the Forte SE.

 

The SP6 features the Forte's Japanese 7ft Grand on top of the 9ft German Grand. The SP1 however lacks the 7ft. Moreover the 9ft German Grand in the SP1 is the same smaller 128MB sample like in the Artis.

 

It's surprising that the lower level SP1 features EQ knobs and Audio-In which the SP6 lacks. Oh my! I bet this is another "strategic" product decision which only product managers are able to grasp... ;-)

LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-)

 

 

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A nice entry into the budget board market, especially the weight. But splitting EPs or clavs on one side and organ on the other is a must for me, and I think lots of folks, in a gigging board. Kinda surprising if that's not possible.

I wouldn't find that surprising (or an issue, really) on a low-cost stage piano that only has 16 sounds in it. The reason to put an organ on one side is for different external processing (i.e. going into a Ventilator or a real Leslie)... the customer who will do that is is not really the customer for this board anyway. (It only appears to have one organ sound, and I would guess it has a non-defeatable rotary effect on it already.) But it is very surprising when that can't be done on organ-focussed (drawbar, organ-action) boards like the Roland VR09/VR730/VR700.

 

On a non-organ-centric board, my bigger need for splitting sounds to different sides is for left hand bass, I like to send the bass to a bass amp, or if we're playing with a sound person, I like giving them separate band mix level for the bass. But I'd be surprised if this board could do that, it's probably not a common need for this board's customer either. One thing I hope they did (and Kurz unfortunately has frequently messed this up) is set up the Split function so that, if you have bass in the left hand, you can freely switch your right hand sound as you play. That's a common need for anyone who plays LH bass, which is a lot of players.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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It's surprising that the lower level SP1 features EQ knobs and Audio-In which the SP6 lacks. Oh my! I bet this is another "strategic" product decision which only product managers are able to grasp... ;-)

The SP6 knobs can be used as EQ knobs, though that definition is program-specific. On the SP1, it seems unclear whether the EQ settings are real-time global adjustments (as on the Artis), or if they are used for program-specific adjustments (functionality which could be mimicked on the SP6).

 

As for the Audio In, yeah, that would be nice on the SP6. My guess would be that the subsequent design of the SP1 with its greater front panel emphasis on incorporating external sounds (and arguably greater need for them on a board that has only 16 sounds in it) led to the idea that an aux in would be a good enhancement there.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I have a few thoughts regarding the SP1 and the questions above. I don't have any inside info, haven't spoken to anyone at Kurz about the SP1. And I definitely don't speak for Kurzweil.

 

But based solely on the info posted on their website I can make a few educated guesses.

 

On the SP6 spec page we see for architecture:

 

VAST: Variable Architecture Synthesis Technology

 

KB3: ToneReal emulation

 

VA1: anti-aliasing, power-shaped oscillators and DSP processing from Kurzweil's VA1 concept synth

And for Effects:

 

Hundreds of complex effect chains, incorporated into programs featuring our award winning effects - reverbs, delays, chorus, flange, phaser, EQs, distortions, rotary speaker simulators, compressors, and more

⋅32 total FX units

 

The above items are specifically NOT listed for the SP1. Based on these omissions I'm guessing that the SP1 uses the Kurz samples but doesn't have Kurz DSP - no VAST, no 32 layer architecture, no Kurz fx, KB3, VA oscillators, etc.

 

It would be in line with low cost boards from other companies if they were using a generic sort of engine under the hood, something without a lot of bells and whistles that just did basic sample play back and basic DSP. (This would explain why it's got EQ knobs and SP6 doesn't.)

 

Again, all of the above are merely guesses based on the info they chose to post on the two respective product pages.

 

http://kurzweil.com/product/sp1/specs/

http://kurzweil.com/product/sp6/specs/

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At least it still has real MIDI jacks!

 

Sound list:

16 instrument sounds in 4 categories:

Piano: 4 Acoustic Piano sounds

Keyboards: 2 Electric Piano sounds, Clav, Organ

Strings/Pads: 2 String Section sounds, 2 Synthesizer Pad sounds

Other: Brass, Winds, Acoustic Bass, Electric Bass

 

Only 2 EPs. I hope at least it's a Rhodes and a Wurly.

 

Split/Layer allows you to select no more than one sound from a category. It helps keep the interface simple, but it does limit combinations. i.e. you couldn't split bass and brass, or layer an EP with clav, because they're in the same category. But most of the combinations you'd probably want are available. Split seems further limited by lack of any apparent octave controls. If you can't octave shift, you may not be able to get non-bass LH sounds sounding in the range you want.

 

As I feared, once you're set up for LH bass, it looks like you can't change your RH sound without un-doing the split and starting over. If you're a LH bass player, what probably makes sense is to set up some or all of your 5 favorites to be bass plus your favorite RH sounds. It's a bit of a shame to have to use up precious Favorite slots for that, though, to make up for the "backwards" implementation of sound selection in Split mode changing your left hand rather than your right hand sound.

 

The external MIDI function doesn't seem to be selectable as part of a split, so it would cover the whole keyboard range (unless you restrict it on the receiving end). If you want to integrate sounds from an external device, since there are no specific storable MIDI presets, this is somewhere else the 5 favorites presumably come into play. Though also, switching among the 16 channels looks pretty quick, so if you set up your external device to have your 16 most needed sounds assigned to the 16 channels, that might not be too bad a way to do reasonably quick selection from among 16 external sounds without running out of Favorites.

 

I'm guessing this will sell for somewhere between $599 and $799. At the higher end, its value will depend on just how good the pianos/EPs are.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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What's interesting, the cheapest, entry level Kurzweil stage piano has the highest polyphony of their entire product line!

 

See my post above... It looks like this board doesn't have Kurzweil's usual DSP and architecture. That would explain the difference in polyphony.

 

Also I noticed that while the SP6 touts "2GB" for on board memory, the SP1 overview page specifically does not mention sample memory size, so it's likely smaller.

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Also I noticed that while the SP6 touts "2GB" for on board memory, the SP1 overview page specifically does not mention sample memory size, so it's likely smaller.

Yeah, it seems like it should be much smaller. It has only 16 sounds. The main (only?) piano sample is from the Artis, which I think is 128 mb. No clue about the size of the two EPs (any idea what the sample size is for the Forte SE's two smallest Forte-specific EPs?), but the remaining 10 sounds are from the PC3 at best, so pretty tiny by today's standards. (I'm also assuming the two EPs are of two different types, i.e. using different sample sets.) It could be as little as 256 mb, if the EP sets aren't too big.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Has anyone looked at the Kurzweil line recently and thought it has just _too many_ products? Including the various keybed variants, I now count 21 keyboards in their pro line alone.

 

While I know we get excited here about almost any new gear, from a business efficiency perspective, the above worries me. The SP6 is only just beginning to hit the stores, yet already Kurzweil is potentially diverting a chunk of its prospective buyers with the announcement of the cheaper SP1.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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Has anyone looked at the Kurzweil line recently and thought it has just _too many_ products?

 

Definitely. But presumably some things like the SP4-8 are just there until they have stock of the SP1 and SP6?

 

Exactly. The line does look a bit big at the moment. But I'd rather see overlap than a gap between products.

 

Seems like the PC3 based stuff is being retired, which makes sense. The Forte based stuff is now being phased in. But for a while there's going to be overlap and that's great. I remember when I worked for Kurz there were a few times where we had a gap between products and it caused many grey hairs.

 

When looking at just the boards that use the new Forte hardware platform, the lineup seems a bit more straightforward: Forte at the top, Forte SE in the middle, SP6 at the (still very "pro") bottom. Not bad for a small engineering group.

 

 

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The "transition period" makes sense. I just hope they don't abandon the non-hammer action market, which doesn't have a Forte-based model yet.

 

I loved the form factor of the SP4-7. It had some unfortunate interface quirks, which I think could be easily addressed. Mostly these come to mind... (1) It had a knob that could be set to adjust five parameters, but the display never told you what it was you were adjusting, making the adjustability frustrating rather than inviting. (2) One of its best features was being able to bring in any of the PC3 programs, but the installation method was a bit arcane (compare this to how easily Nord lets you download and swap alternate sounds for their boards), and the feature was hardly promoted. (3) The Split button initiated a Split, cool. But if you hit it again, instead of turning off the Split, it initiated a third (and then a fourth) Split. There were already menu-diving options for creating 4-way Splits if needed. The whole point of the front panel button should have been to facilitate live performance use. Live, all you want to do is enable or disable one split on the fly, no one is going to create a 4-way split on the fly in the middle of a performance. (4) Any my old favorite related to Split, once you Split, selecting a new sound while playing would change the bottom sound, whereas you almost always would have wanted to change the top sound. (You can get around that by playing in "edit" mode, but that's not obvious, nor the most convenient.)

 

The Artis7 is also a great form factor, adding a better screen/interface, the 9 sliders, more patch selection buttons, global EQ (and it has an updated sound set, more polyphony, more fx). It has a couple of the same issues... its PC3 sound library compatibility is a well-kept secret, and once you split, it is easy to change the left hand sound but awkward to change the right. But it's still a really nice board. I hope Kurz does bring some Forte sounds to these kinds of small, light SW boards.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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There are only two EP patches in the SP1... and we can see from this video (at about 2:10) that one of them is a DX7 style. So there's got to be either no Wurli or no Rhodes. Next!!

 

[video:youtube]

 

It also has a $995 price tag on it. I assume that's list and not street (where it would go up against the much more capable MX88, DS88, PX5S). But with its pretty minimal sound set and functionality (incl. that notable EP absence), it looks like a tough sell even against much cheaper boards. The ergonomics and MIDI external control do add some appeal. Maybe if it has a really outstanding piano sound/feel...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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