Trade Rhodes for Wurlitzer?

[MAJUSCULE]

Does anyone have suggestions on fun things to hit with a baseball bat?

 

The store owner?

 

Time to channel your inner Beyoncé.

 

[video:youtube]

[scottasin]

As much as I'd love a Wurli and it would be more useful for my current bands situation, and its a lot easier to move around than a Rhodes, I plugged my Rhodes back in and pretty quickly made peace with the situation. Yes, she needs some work, yes she's a beast, but it really is the best Rhode's I've ever laid hands on (only ever played like 5 others though). Also, I have a guitar amp now and can crank that shit up and play metal riffs when I'm angry... I tried doing it on guitar and I just suck to much for it really to work, but slammin out some driven Rhodes definitely gets me back on track.

[burningbusch]

a) The world isn't just about gigging. Having a instrument for playing at home is wonderful, e.g. AP, Hammond, and many others.

b) The Wurly isn't much heavier than today's weighted action keyboards. It's quite portable.

c) It's nice to own pieces that you can keep forever, that won't be made obsolete in a year or two.

d) For some bands/players, having a digital instrument on stage is antithetical to the image they're trying to create. It's the last thing they want, no matter how practical it might be.

e) There is no single Wurly or Rhodes sound so I don't take much heed in claims of nailing it, one way or the other. Both offer a wide range.

f) There are ways of expanding/replacing the EP sounds of the Kronos. I know of a few.

g) Playing an instrument where your fingers trigger physical periodic vibrations is, and will remain special.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

As much as I'd love a Wurli and it would be more useful for my current bands situation, and its a lot easier to move around than a Rhodes, I plugged my Rhodes back in and pretty quickly made peace with the situation. Yes, she needs some work, yes she's a beast, but it really is the best Rhode's I've ever laid hands on (only ever played like 5 others though). Also, I have a guitar amp now and can crank that shit up and play metal riffs when I'm angry... I tried doing it on guitar and I just suck to much for it really to work, but slammin out some driven Rhodes definitely gets me back on track.

 

Cool.

 

Busch.

[Doerfler]

a) The world isn't just about gigging. Having a instrument for playing at home is wonderful, e.g. AP, Hammond, and many others.

b) The Wurly isn't much heavier than today's weighted action keyboards. It's quite portable.

c) It's nice to own pieces that you can keep forever, that won't be made obsolete in a year or two.

d) For some bands/players, having a digital instrument on stage is antithetical to the image they're trying to create. It's the last thing they want, no matter how practical it might be.

e) There is no single Wurly or Rhodes sound so I don't take much heed in claims of nailing it, one way or the other. Both offer a wide range.

f) There are ways of expanding/replacing the EP sounds of the Kronos. I know of a few.

g) Playing an instrument where your fingers trigger physical periodic vibrations is, and will remain special.

 

Busch.

 

Indeed

excellent post, BB.

[MAJUSCULE]

These are the threads (and mic drops) that keep me coming back.

[vanderSchoot]

Just out of curiousity....are there qualified Rhodes and Wurlitzer tuners out there ?

As a pianotuner i often have to tune grands next to a Wurli or Rhodes in theaters.

They are always somewhat out of tune.....mildly put.

 

Besides the stores who sell refurbished Rhodes/Wurlies i do not know ''on the road'' tuners of those instruments.

[retrokeys]

Over the years I've had four Wurlis. Loved playing them. Hated trying to keep them in tune. Sold or traded every single one. Would have loved to get a Rhodes just for variety, rubbery, stiff action and all.

[Gary75]

Wjen I first got mine I was adamant I couldn't tune it. But then I saw the prices people were charging and quickly learnt how to do it. It's made a lot easier by having tne Peterson strobe tuner on iPhone. You don't even need to power the Wurli on to tune it as there is enough residual sound from the reeds to do it. It also means your not having to repeatedly turn the Wurli off when bending over the live wires on the volume pot

[The Real MC]

Rhodes absolutely will not be heard over overdriven rock guitars. It's very hard to find one that isn't a dog with spongy/stiff action or dull tone. There is no "best" era of Rhodes, they changed a lot of things over the years trying to make it lighter and/or cheaper to produce and/or more reliable. Sometimes the piano suffered, sometimes it didn't. I think the Rhodes is a better instrument for unaccompanied EP playing. The timbre of the Rhodes tends to conflict with guitars.

 

Wurlie is a great EP for that reed sound that can co-exist with guitars or any ensemble. Sound is consistent. Action is great. Not the same range as a 73 key Rhodes so a little shy for unaccompanied piano playing. Won't get the bell tone of a Rhodes. Tuning requires a deft hand with exacto blade to remove solder or a soldering iron to add it. Harder than a Rhodes IME.

 

One thing not yet mentioned - as both have many wood components, high humidity will warp the wood components. The last thing you want is warped hammers or keys interfering with neighboring ones. Don't store them in direct sunlight or in damp basements. Later Rhodes pianos replaced as much wood in the action as possible with plastic to prevent warping. Many feel this impacted the tone. During a brief era Rhodes replaced the wood keyshanks with fiberglass ones, with associated metal guidepins replaced with plastic. Those are the absolute worse as they broke with age.

[scottasin]

Well, the story continues!!! Pretty much right after posting I went to go hang out with a buddy, and as I'm pulling up I get a call from the shop. The owner felt bad and was looking online for stuff, and it turns out that another store in their network (it is a franchise store, but locally owned and operated type ordeal) with a Wurlitzer for $1000 dollars all the way across the country in North Carolina, and its been professionally serviced by a wurlitzer specific shop. I told him I'd made peace with it, but the whole idea originally hinged on what he'd give me for my Rhodes, I knew the conditions didn't match and it wouldn'tb e a straight trade. Enlisted my friend to help me load my Rhodes into my car as we were headed to that part of town anyways and took off to see what kind of deal we ended up with.

 

After showing him the Rhodes he offered at first $500 for it, but that he'd pay shipping on the Wurlitzer. I told him that the least I was willing to part with the Rhodes for was $600, I made my mind up on that yesterday. He agreed to let me pay $400+tax for the Wurlitzer and he'll pay to ship it out. Basically, I end up with the original deal I would have and he's paying air shipping on the Wurlitzer (he said its safer than truck, and if he's willing to shell out more, I'm down with it). No money has left my pocket yet, he said he wants to make sure the Wurli gets here safe.

 

I'm still kind of miffed by the way things originally went down, but he covered his ass quickly enough for me to not get out and talk shit on him or his shop to anyone other than my bandmates who had heard how excited I was about the wurlitzer. Not sure how he didn't manage to hold it in the first place, but all's well that ends well. Its not over till I have a quality Wurlitzer in the back of my car, but at least it seems like I AM getting one.

[J_tour]

Does anyone have suggestions on fun things to hit with a baseball bat?

 

The store owner?

 

First laugh of the day! It's funny because it's true!

 

But @OP, that's pretty amazing the whole thing ended up working out.

 

Yeah, since a lot of "true confessions" about Rhodes v Wurli have been made here, I kind of have to throw in my 0.02 that you can make the Rhodes sound Wurli-ish, with a little tremolo pedal, but it's not the same.

 

I'd rather have a mint-perfect (well, pretty close, anyway) Wurlitzer than a so-so Rhodes (even with a good action -- mine has a nice action as well, its still heavy). IMHO there's always a temptation to fiddle with something inside the Rhodes, whereas the Wurlitzer is more, "set and forget."

 

Plus, the light action can make you feel like a monster shredder when doing scalar runs and stuff. In addition to everything else.

[ProfD]

Yo Scott, I hope the Wurli shows up in great shape amd provides as much joy to play as your beloved Rhodes. Keep us posted.

[MotiDave]

I'd take Wurli over Rhodes, 100%. but i'm a delinquent rocker and as many noted, wurli sits in rock a bit better (jmo).

 

I'm like Dan - i'd love a Wurli in my house but I wouldn't drag it around for gigging, i'd emulate with a board is lighter, more reliable and does another 10, 100, or 1000 other things in the same single technological package.

 

I do have one band/set where I play a Wurli piano timbre in every song except 2. that band only does the set once a year, and I'd drag a real Wurli out for that one if I had one (UFO - Strangers in Night live album).

 

have fun!

 

[niacin]

Jessica Williams. She said she tried all the digital pianos out there and couldn't connect with any of them and decided a Wurli was the best option.

 

 

Can someone remind me of who it was in the '00s who was playing pretty straight-ahead jazz using a Wurlitzer EP? I think it was a 'she,' and I don't recall if she/he/it put out any records.

 

Anyway, I echo a bunch of people above, IF the Wurlitzer is tuned perfectly, and electrically perfect, then of course I'd trade an unkempt Rhodes for it.

 

However, I know people who claim it's "fun" and "fast" to tune the Wurlitzer, but I claim it's the opposite. FWIW I think the Rhodes is a b**** to tune as well.

 

They're fine being traveled with around town, anyway. Never had one break, whereas it seemed like there was also something shifting around inside the Rhodes, probably because it's so f****** heavy and awkward.

[scottasin]

 

 

[video:youtube]

so that thing the drum machine is mounted on, is that a product I can buy, or something similar to make the Wurlitzer appropriate for stacking? Going from a flat top Rhodes to this makes me wonder what I'll do with my pedals, as I like to twiddle with them.

[bjosko]

A Straddler : https://kenrichsounds.com/shop/wurlitzer-electric-pianos/straddler-ii-wurlitzer/

[mcgoo]

I understand the appeal of having the real thing, but I don't think I would want to lug a Rhodes OR a Wurly to gigs with so many high quality digital replicas out there.

 

Some years back when we had the Chicago KC hang at TonySounds house (when he still lived in Chicago), Redkey brought his Wurly. I had recently bought a Kronos at the time, and while the Wurly was better than I had previously, still not up to par with the real thing. It was a joy playing a real Wurly. Then to my surprise, the SV-1 nailed the sound much closer than the Kronos. If you like that sound and like the RH3 action, it's a winner in my book.

 

I remember that well. Twas my SV-1 that impressed you and your rendition of the intro to Bloody Well Right that impressed me.

 

A few weeks ago, I actually took my (recently updated) Wurlie out for a gig for the first time since I bought the SV-1, which was 3-4 years ago. The SV-1 does a decent job, but theres nothing like the real thing, both from a playing standpoint and sonically. Moving it wasnt bad either (I just bought Redkeys Ken Rich gig bag). I wont take it out on a bar gig, but I will continue to for the original band I play in (which mostly does festival gigs / listening rooms).

 

[Doerfler]

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

Fred DeLeone is a bad ass player and vintage keyboard tech.

[scottasin]

I understand the appeal of having the real thing, but I don't think I would want to lug a Rhodes OR a Wurly to gigs with so many high quality digital replicas out there.

 

Some years back when we had the Chicago KC hang at TonySounds house (when he still lived in Chicago), Redkey brought his Wurly. I had recently bought a Kronos at the time, and while the Wurly was better than I had previously, still not up to par with the real thing. It was a joy playing a real Wurly. Then to my surprise, the SV-1 nailed the sound much closer than the Kronos. If you like that sound and like the RH3 action, it's a winner in my book.

 

I remember that well. Twas my SV-1 that impressed you and your rendition of the intro to Bloody Well Right that impressed me.

 

A few weeks ago, I actually took my (recently updated) Wurlie out for a gig for the first time since I bought the SV-1, which was 3-4 years ago. The SV-1 does a decent job, but theres nothing like the real thing, both from a playing standpoint and sonically. Moving it wasnt bad either (I just bought Redkeys Ken Rich gig bag). I wont take it out on a bar gig, but I will continue to for the original band I play in (which mostly does festival gigs / listening rooms).

I noticed those gig bags on the link for the straddler posted before, are you able to take your Wurlitzer by yourself? That was always my biggest problem with the Rhodes, always absolutely NEEDING someone else to give me a hand with it. I would love to be able to get this thing in and out of my car by myself, that would be a miracle.

 

As far as use, I expect it'll stay mostly at home and come out for the 'big' gigs (as big as they get with my current group anyways ) only. I'm mostly AP these days and the Wurli on my Casio is plenty good for the 4 or so songs I use it on. When we're playing larger stages I'll probably bring out the real thing, but most of what we do I'd be best off staying at two keyboards for the sake of the whole band having a comfortable spot if nothing else. Honestly, it'll be real nice to have a practice keyboard at home with built in speakers. I can leave my DP at the band house and still work on vocals at home.

[mcgoo]

I noticed those gig bags on the link for the straddler posted before, are you able to take your Wurlitzer by yourself?

 

Yes. It has both a big shoulder strap and handle straps. Carrying it by the handle straps alone is pretty heavy, but if you use the shoulder strap & reinforce by grabbing a handle strap, it's very manageable. Not any heavier than my SV-1 in a hard case.

[Doerfler]

hey Scott? Any update on this? Did you get a Wurlie EP?

[John Lee]

Not sure if they are available worldwide but I used the Soundwear 29118 keyboard bag with wheels when I used to gig with my Wurli. It made moving it around on my own much easier.

 

My Wurli just sits at home now, though. I do miss playing it live but I don't miss not being sure that every note would be in tune when I switched it on. It didn't happen that often, but when it did, it was usually a pretty important note (such as E above middle C) that would mean having to completely revoice chords and solos.

[scottasin]

the day has finally come, I've got my Wurlitzer, and have parted ways with my Rhodes. I think I still ended up with a pretty solid deal all things considered, but the Wurlitzer is definitely not perfect (neither was the Rhodes). I'm wondering what advice you'd have for remedying the issue.

 

Everything works flawlessly aside from a pretty severe drop in volume between the E and the D above it in the middle of the keyboard, and the Eb and E above that are ironically the loudest notes on the whole keyboard. Its so severe that if I play the A below those as hard as I can, its not nearly as loud as the Eb played lightly. This seems like it'd be just about the heaviest use area of the keyboard, could it be worm hammers or reeds? From what I recall there's not nearly as much adjustability in the pickups as in a Rhodes. It sounds fantastic aside from that, but its still enough to make it largely nonfunctional unless you adjust your playing to extreme levels to counter it.

[J. Dan]

I haven't ever serviced one, but it sounds like something that should be able to be adjusted - as you suggest, the area affected would suggest wear. I'm sure others will chime in.

 

Once you get it all set up, maybe one of my trips to Boulder I'll have to make the hour drive to check it out!

[Doerfler]

I'm wondering what advice you'd have for remedying the issue.

 

have it professionally serviced. It's vintage gear. It will last forever but like a vehicle or a home it needs to be looked after.

[mate stubb]

Very quiet reeds are often cracked or near metal fatigue failure and need to be replaced.

[synthizen2]

Back in the 80s my college roommate and I used to have "EP Wars". We were both keyboardists, he played a Wurly 200A and I played a Rhodes Stage 73. Back then, it was like, "Which one is better for gigging? Better sounding? More versatile?" etc.

 

Of course, since then, I've grown to love both sounds and instruments. But back in the day, I had my electric piano (and he had his), and that was what we used (and "defended"). So it was all kind of silly looking back on it, but it did make me a "Rhodes guy" for a long time.

 

I mostly play Wurly patches on my ROMplers these days, for rock and country. Just seems to cut through the mix better than Rhodes sounds. Of course I agree: for fusion/jazz, it's Rhodes all the way.

[synthizen2]

I agree with every reason in burningbusch's list, except for:

 

d) For some bands/players, having a digital instrument on stage is antithetical to the image they're trying to create.

 

The "image they're trying to create" is all in their heads, or in the heads of a couple of musos in the audience that they're trying to brag to.

 

I know of no keyboard player (personally) who considers it "less than authentic" and an "insult" to be playing digital keyboards on stage. 99.99% of the audience doesn't care or doesn't know the difference. You're really "reaching" when you've gotten to this level of electromechanical snobbery.

 

In this age where almost any musician can buy a keyboard that can get you thousands of professionally-crafted sounds, it seems to me that the upper echelon of pianists and keyboardists are simply reverting to more expensive and less accessible legacy keyboards, in order to distance and distinguish themselves against the masses.

 

Back in the 80s, those pro's had all the new expensive electronic stuff (samplers, digital synths) that most of us couldn't afford... but now it's all reverted back to acoustics, true clonewheels, and electromechanicals... for the simple reason that your typical bar-band keyboardist won't be seen using them.

 

Older technology keyboards = the new "talent".

[area51recording]

As to the "electro mecahnical snobbery" The current crop of digital emulations is PLENTY good enough to make me not even think about hauling around a real Rhodes or Wurli, for sure....I've gotten to where the Rhodes sounds in my E3 are pretty much my voice on jazz gigs. Never had anyone come at me yet with "Dude, you REALLY need to get a real Rhodes". I guess if they ever do I'll have to think about putting a chiropractor on retainer.....