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Roland Discontinues Jupiter-80 and Jupiter-50


SpPiano

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As I said earlier, Rolands problem is not the sound. It seems to me that they have engineers there in Japan who are software programmers but nobody of them every played a few minutes live on stage.

An example: they abandoned the ability to load single patches/performances into their keyboards. It's all or nothing. That alone is so stupid that I would avoid their keyboards in the feature. They never created a sample file format. You can't use your old multisamples created on a Roland machine. Add to all that the shortcomings from the Jupiter 80 and you have the formula to fail. I mean, on the Jupiter you set globally what goes to the outputs 3/4! You cannot decide on a per patch/performance base what you want to send to an alternative output. Instead, you decide which of the four available parts goes (permanently) thru the output 3/4. Roland had some really untalented engineers lately. The only thing that is really good is their sound. I always liked how their samplebased and SN based keyboards sound.

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they abandoned the ability to load single patches/performances into their keyboards. It's all or nothing.

 

I can load single tones, live sets and registrations into my Jupiter. The Jupiter 80 has been my #1 synth for almost 6 years now and I still love it. It's very easy to use, intuitive and fits my quick workflow. It has some technical shortcomings that I work around. For example, the lack of knobs. There are 4 assignable controllers but much of where I live is in liveset modify screen. Liveset modify is just as capable as the hardware controllers on my Kronos or XF, IMO. In regards to the comments about the 1 parameter EP, man I just play the damn thing. It sounds great and sits nicely in the mix. If I really need an old, worn out Rhodes I'll just use a plug in :)

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they abandoned the ability to load single patches/performances into their keyboards. It's all or nothing.

 

I can load single tones, live sets and registrations into my Jupiter.

Maybe he's talking about loading external patches? (Like from the Axial site). I believe the early OS was limited in that respect, but later corrected.

I agree the interface is not as conventional as other keyboards, but once you know your way around, its fast and very, very deep. Great for sound design AND performance.

I do agree though - the output assign limitation to global upper/lower is very limiting. Even the FA series can assign individual parts to the sub out. I would think a software update would address this on the Jupiter, but that ain't happening.

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I think that keeping the JP-80 quality keyboard, going back to the Fantom format, and adding the VK organ and some of the Boutique modules would make a "must have" keyboard that can compete with Kronos.

 

I think you might be onto something, as far as why the JP-80 sales were presumably disappointing to Roland, vs. sales of the Kronos.

 

One of Kronos' strengths is a workstation platform that appears to have kept the workflow and functionality of earlier Korg workstations that customers would be familiar with - M3, Triton, etc. So those folks would have been unlikely to jump ship for the JP-80.

 

Additionally, it's got a selection of synth engines (MOD-7, various VAs, STR-1) that allow it to compete in the high-end synth market. If not for the workstation factor, I guess competition would be more even vs. the JP-80.

 

But the kind of peeps who would have the $$$ for a Kronos or JP-80 tend to also want decent piano and organ sounds. Kronos has its piano and clonewheel engines to address those desires. I think the JP-80 would have been able to win more sales away from the Kronos if it had Roland's VR clonewheel engine.

 

But once Yamaha unleashed the Montage, I suspect quite a few potential JP-80 sales were lost to that beast.

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If Jupiter sales were indeed disappointing, another factor might be that they were only available as 76-key semi-weighted models.

 

Kronos, Motif, Montage, and even Fantom are (or were) available in 61, 76, and 88.

 

To me it seems Roland tried too hard to reinvent the wheel with the Jupiter 80; it was a laudable attempt, but it may have been too costly a mistake in the end.

 

I still have a Jupiter 50 that I bought last year, but I never use it. I'm thinking I should sell it, but the only thing I could replace it with is a Montage 7, and that is a bit too costly at this time.

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it may have been too costly a mistake in the end

 

I don't know about that but Jupiter 80 eventually trickled down into i7 and FA series which by most accounts, are successful and supported products.

 

Second hand Jupiter 80s are very expensive now. Currently $2700-3300 on ebay.

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If Jupiter sales were indeed disappointing,

 

Another way of stating it would be, Roland set the sales target to XXXX units, but sales fell YYY units short of target, to justify continued production.

 

It's been a while though since we saw a costly mistake on the level of the ARP Avatar ;). Roland got what they could out these Jupiters and moved on - no company killing disaster there ;).

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Jupiter 80/50 were really nice performamce-oriented KBs. IMO, there is/was too much competition from ROMplers and DPs. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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If Jupiter sales were indeed disappointing, another factor might be that they were only available as 76-key semi-weighted models.

 

Kronos, Motif, Montage, and even Fantom are (or were) available in 61, 76, and 88.

 

To me it seems Roland tried too hard to reinvent the wheel with the Jupiter 80; it was a laudable attempt, but it may have been too costly a mistake in the end.

 

I still have a Jupiter 50 that I bought last year, but I never use it. I'm thinking I should sell it, but the only thing I could replace it with is a Montage 7, and that is a bit too costly at this time.

 

Another factor may have been their absence in brick and mortar stores. I was interested in the JP-80 from the time it came out, but was never able to actually touch one. I live in NC and over 5 or 6 years visited GC and Sam Ash stores here in Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Charlotte, Asheville, and even Knoxville, TN. I saw Kronoses (Kroni?), Montages, and so on but no JP-80s. Finally landed a used one last summer for $1500 and I love it.

Live: Yamaha S70XS (#1); Roland Jupiter-80; Mackie 1202VLZ4: IEMs or Traynor K4

Home: Hammond SK Pro 73; Moog Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue; Yamaha S70XS (#2); Wurlitzer 200A

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I can load single tones, live sets and registrations into my Jupiter.

 

Yes, they added this function in an update, in a desperate attempt to make the keyboard more popular and after they finally realized that people can't exchange sounds and that it is impossible to load/buy/create/sell new soundpacks for the jupiter. But even that new function was done in a incredibly stupid way. All items were loaded into a new available memory slot up until you maxed the memory out. After that, you got a "memory full" message. You couldn't overwrite locations starting from a certain memory place, usually the one where you started to save your own creations since the memory locations are not divided into banks like on a kronos but the whole memory area is one big bank. No, that new function was the worst of the worst. By loading items only to the next free available slot (init. registration, init. live set, init. tone), you can imagine how quickly that creates duplicate tones/livesets/registrations because that system didn't give you an option to overwrite existing stuff or certain areas or an existing patch with your new one if you load that from a file it always loads into a unused area. It's a total mess.

 

 

It's very easy to use, intuitive and fits my quick workflow.

 

It is important to say how you use it. Studio or stage are two completely different worlds. Also, using just this one keyboard on stage, as I did, is again something completely different than using two keyboards. As a performance keyboard it is IMHO simply badly designed. The fact that this keyboard has four parts, but just two split knobs for directly creating three zones instead of four speaks a lot about the engineers and their clueless. Those two buttons activate a split between the upper and lower liveset and between the solo part (the 4th one). There is no button to create/activate a split point between the percussion part (the 1st part) and the next one. Instead, a heavy workaround has to be used. And that is just one example.

 

 

It has some technical shortcomings that I work around. For example, the lack of knobs.

 

Those four knobs bellow the screen: They can be set as controllers just for the livesets, that means for the second and third part, but not for the first and fourth! If you have a solo patch in your fourth part (=Solo Part), you can't set a knob to control its cutoff or resonance or any other parameter! So, half of the available parts on the keyboard cannot be controlled by the circular knobs for no obvious reason. While we are talking about controllers, those knobs send midi data (CC) but not outside of the keyboard, just internal. So, those knobs can't be used as controllers for external gear neither. Also, aftertouch is hardwired to vibrato for the SN acoustic tones. For the SN synth tones it is limited to filter cutoff and volume. Want to control vibrato on a synth lead patch with aftertouch? Not, on this keyboard. While vibrato is the only thing it controls on the acoustic tones, that's exactly what you cannot control on the synth tone.

This synthesizer limits the use of aftertouch for its VA section to two destinations, cutoff and volume, while the four circular knobs can't be used at all. The problem is not the lack of knobs. The knobs are there. Just they do nothing on half of the available keyboard parts.

 

There are 4 assignable controllers but much of where I live is in liveset modify screen. Liveset modify is just as capable as the hardware controllers on my Kronos or XF, IMO.

 

As I said above, the controllers on the Jupiter are a (bad) joke and compared to the controllers on the Kronos/XF they don't even come close to them. I explained it with the function of aftertouch. Even the tone blend function is very limited to a couple of parameters. Aftertouch on the Kronos or XF can control (almost) anything anywhere. Besides that, I don't understand what you mean by "living" in the liveset modify screen. Controllers are set on the registration level and not on the live set modify screen. Usually, using a keyboard means editing and making the settings and then make use of those saved settings and edits and not staying inside an edit screen. At least not on stage.

 

 

In regards to the comments about the 1 parameter EP, man I just play the damn thing. It sounds great and sits nicely in the mix.

 

The Jupiter80 is a keyboard. One would expect that those basic keyboard sounds (piano, e.piano, organ...) would have a finer control over the sound. The SN piano engine has those typical parameters like key resonance, hammer noise, string resonance and so on. Even the organ which is actually the very same model as in their VK tone wheel models, has a very detailed set of parameters (unfortunately it still sounds crappy because the organ model is completely unsupported by the lacking effects).

But suddenly, when it comes to the e. piano, you are limited just to one single adjustable parameter, the key off noise. It's interesting that you don't see the illogical approach here. Even the Sarangi sound has three times more adjustable parameters than the e. piano. How many people know what a sarangi is? :)

Roland created the e.piano arx expansion card with the same e.piano SN model for the fantom g with a lot of adjustable parameters. It is really pitty that just one single parameter made it over to the Jupiter 80.

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I've always thought the OS was just unfinished. There are even categories with no sounds in them - that indicates to me they probably had intentions to update the machine. But, it probably didn't make sense financially to put much effort into it. I can't fault them for that - they are in business to make money. It seems like the Integra engine in the Jupiter form would have been a nice evolution for the Jupiter.

Either way - I use mine primarily for live gigging and I love it. I haven't had a scenario I couldn't cover, even with it's limitations. Above all, the sound works well for me (except the Leslie - so I use a Vent). Nothing is perfect though....my FA did a lot that this can't do. And, vice versa.

One thing I like - in this world of all things "mini", there is nothing mini about the JP80. It's like a 70's muscle car that sucks up gas and spits out harmful emissions at an alarming rate. And I love it for that!

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I never owned one but remember it was expandable.

 

However, in this case I was referring to the included Programs and Performances right out of the box. Many years ago I auditioned a Fantom X and recall the Performance banks were empty. Seemed somewhat odd, as both Korg and Yamaha include many presets in their Combination and/or Performance banks.

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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Sounds like a combination of design flaws (a performance keyboard that has some difficult to use - in performance - features), logistical flaws (not getting demo units out to brick-and-mortar stores outside of big cities), and other oversights (eg. empty performance banks) that while individually minor, can add up... these all added up did in the Jupiter-80.
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those knobs send midi data (CC) but not outside of the keyboard, just internal.

How strange! If they don't send MIDI externally, how can you even tell they're sending MIDI at all?

 

But I agree about how odd many interface/design decisions were, and much of that carried over to the Jupiter 50 as well. Though I think the Jupiter 50 is still one of the best lightweight boards, if you're okay working within its limitations. It's not like we've ever had a great selection of lightweight 7x-key boards with really nice actions.

 

Sounds like a combination of design flaws (a performance keyboard that has some difficult to use - in performance - features), logistical flaws (not getting demo units out to brick-and-mortar stores outside of big cities), and other oversights (eg. empty performance banks) that while individually minor, can add up... these all added up did in the Jupiter-80.

I think the other obstacles to sales--at least as a gigging instrument--were the sheer size/weight, and the dearth of instrument sounds in some categories. When it comes to acoustic instrument reproduction (as opposed to synth sounds), the SN sounds were often great, but if there was no SN sound like what you wanted, you pretty much didn't have it at all. That was addressed in the Integra, where, if there was no SN sound for the instrument you want (already less of an issue because the Integra had many more SN sounds than the Jupiters), they also included the old XV-5080 sound set as fallback, which could give you "good enough" sounds for many other instruments.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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those knobs send midi data (CC) but not outside of the keyboard, just internal.

How strange! If they don't send MIDI externally, how can you even tell they're sending MIDI at all?

 

Because you can assign CC to them for controlling the internal sound!

 

I didn't have the jp50 but the jp80 and it had one of the best semiweighted keybeds I ever played.

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Thanks mojkarma, that was an informative read. Discovered more limitations of the JP-80 in your post than my past five years of gigging with one. Of course, I also play out with a Kronos, which nicely compensates for some of the weaknesses you identified. While not necessarily ideal, Ive always gigged with two keyboards, so using a complimentary keyboard with the Jupiter has been a viable intervention.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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Thanks mojkarma, that was an informative read.

 

Actually, that post was full of errors.

 

t is important to say how you use it. Studio or stage are two completely different worlds. Also, using just this one keyboard on stage, as I did, is again something completely different than using two keyboards. As a performance keyboard it is IMHO simply badly designed. The fact that this keyboard has four parts, but just two split knobs for directly creating three zones instead of four speaks a lot about the engineers and their clueless. Those two buttons activate a split between the upper and lower liveset and between the solo part (the 4th one). There is no button to create/activate a split point between the percussion part (the 1st part) and the next one. Instead, a heavy workaround has to be used.

 

Okay, your talking about creating splits. There's a huge keyboard graphic on the top level registration. Touch that, all your split settings are there. The percussion part split works 2 ways. Manual takes all the other layers out completely, effectively setting their lower split points to the high split point of the perc layer. The drum/sfx button just turns on & off the layer, effectively duplicating the part switch.

 

Those four knobs bellow the screen: They can be set as controllers just for the livesets, that means for the second and third part, but not for the first and fourth! If you have a solo patch in your fourth part (=Solo Part), you can't set a knob to control its cutoff or resonance or any other parameter! So, half of the available parts on the keyboard cannot be controlled by the circular knobs for no obvious reason.

 

The solo and perc parts are called tones. It's basically a patch with 3 elements either pcm wave or SN synth or it can just a SN acoustic tone. Live sets consists of 4 tones with expanded effects and control. There are 2 live sets. If controlling filter cutoff is important to your solo just solo on a live set. There are ways to switch in and out seamlessly.

 

While we are talking about controllers, those knobs send midi data (CC) but not outside of the keyboard, just internal. So, those knobs can't be used as controllers for external gear neither.

 

This is absolutely false and makes me wonder if you actually used this board or just don't understand how to use and adapt to synthesizers because this is very basic stuff. You are ranting all over this thread about the "stupid" and "braindead" Roland engineers yet you seem to have little understanding about this board.

 

I can control multiple parameters in Omnisphere using E1-E4 knobs my Jupiter. The Jupiter can send a variety of CCs not all and some settings can only affect the internal tone generator.

 

I agree patch management is a beast. I would let something like mainstage or different midi controller manage the live setup. Lets be perfectly honest here. The vast majority of players performing complex performances live are not using just one synthesizer. Not with the Kronos, not with the Motif. There is always other stuff. IME it's the computer based system running mainstage. Most home players have more than 1 synth. To me it's not important that 1 synth does absolutely everything. It's more about workflow and the quickest way to get from edit mode to inspiration than anything else.

 

 

 

 

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[Okay, your talking abut creating splits. There's a huge keyboard graphic on the top level registration. Touch that, all your split settings are there

...

If controlling filter cutoff is important to your solo just solo on a live set. There are ways to switch in and out seamlessly.

This tripped me up on a Jupiter 50. If my main sound was a Live Set sound, but I just quickly wanted to call in a solo voice above it, I could easily switch one in (albeit with limitations... like it couldn't be an organ with rotary effect)... but then I couldn't figure out how to switch it back out!

 

Another thing I found convoluted is that there are three sections (scaled back from the four on the JP-80). For the main section in the middle, you can select sounds with the main set of patch select buttons. For the lower part, you use those same buttons (specifying lower part); but for the upper (solo) part, you use entirely different buttons. Why two different methods? IMO, whatever they did for the bottom part should have been done for the top part. i.e. either give them both heir own dedicated buttons OR allow them both to make use of the main bank of buttons, but it seems kind of whacky to have one operating one way and the other operating the other.

 

The vast majority of players performing complex performances live are not using just one synthesizer.

I'm not sure what the breakdown is... after discussing clonewheels, one of the most common things that seems to come up here involves gigging with one board vs. two. ;-) At any rate, it seems few regularly gig with more than two; and the most common scenario is a weighted board on bottom and semi/unweighted on top. In that case, the Jupiter is likely to be called on to do anything your "piano" board doesn't do. As for integrating Mainstage or whatever, sure, there's a lot of that too, though the sense I get is that it's still a minority.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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This tripped me up on a Jupiter 50. If my main sound was a Live Set sound, but I just quickly wanted to call in a solo voice above it, I could easily switch one in (albeit with limitations... like it couldn't be an organ with rotary effect)... but then I couldn't figure out how to switch it back out!

 

Another thing I found convoluted is that there are three sections (scaled back from the four on the JP-80). For the main section in the middle, you can select sounds with the main set of patch select buttons. For the lower part, you use those same buttons (specifying lower part); but for the upper (solo) part, you use entirely different buttons. Why two different methods?

 

If you are playing a live set and switch in your solo part with a favorites button, you have to turn off the solo part on the other side of the keyboard to get back out. As you already know, one more press of the button dumps you into category view. Instead, program a favorites button that makes no sound.

 

On the 50, 1/3 of the row is taken by registration controls. The middle/lower operate this way because the are not enough buttons for a useable row of favorites for both parts. It makes sense to give you buttons for the solo part. On the 80 the entire row is dedicated to groups of buttons of favorites for upper, lower and solo plus alternates for all. Very useful. What would have been awesome was if those favorites were assignable per registration. Instead they are global.

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If you are playing a live set and switch in your solo part with a favorites button, you have to turn off the solo part on the other side of the keyboard to get back out. As you already know, one more press of the button dumps you into category view. Instead, program a favorites button that makes no sound.

It's not just a matter of wanting to silence the solo sound when I'm done with it, but also extend the "middle of the keyboard" sound back up through the solo range, as it was before I invoked the solo sound. Does your strategy work for that?

 

On the 50, 1/3 of the row is taken by registration controls. The middle/lower operate this way because the are not enough buttons for a useable row of favorites for both parts. It makes sense to give you buttons for the solo part. On the 80 the entire row is dedicated to groups of buttons of favorites for upper, lower and solo plus alternates for all.

I understand cost/feature reduction and wanting to scale back the total number of buttons. What I didn't like was the mixed strategy. If they were going to get rid of dedicated buttons for the lower sound, they should have gotten rid of the dedicated buttons for solo as well. I don't agree that it made more sense to give you buttons for the solo part alone, because it meant you had to use two different tone selection strategies for two different regions of the keyboard. To me, it would have been better to use the same strategy for both, and do the same main-section button repurposing for the solo section as they did for the lower section. They could have eliminated the 4 solo section buttons and created 4 more main section buttons instead, which would have done triple duty for the three sections.

 

What would have been awesome was if those favorites were assignable per registration. Instead they are global.

Absolutely! That was my big initial disappointment with the board. I expected that to work, and it didn't. It was a big reason I ended up hardly using the board.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Okay, your talking about creating splits. There's a huge keyboard graphic on the top level registration. Touch that, all your split settings are there. The percussion part split works 2 ways. Manual takes all the other layers out completely, effectively setting their lower split points to the high split point of the perc layer. The drum/sfx button just turns on & off the layer, effectively duplicating the part switch.

 

Devnor,

stop this. I know you very well from the rolandclan and some other forums. You get very passionate - to say it politely - about the Jupiter80, intentionally neglecting and playing down its shortcomings. Not to mention some of your very immature and aggressive comments against me at rolandclan years ago when you accused me that I don't even own a jp80 (just google "roland jupiter 80 worst midi controller").

The first part (percussion part) can't be split with a dedicated button. Instead, you have to dig into a submenu. There you set the upper key range. Let's say, you set it to B3. Now, you have to manually set the lower key range for the second part - which is the lower live set - to C4. If you have a liveset containing 4 tones, you have to set manually C4 as the lower key zone on all four of them.

Here is the highlight:

When you save your registration, the keyrange of the percussion part is saved as part of that registration. But the keyrange of the liveset is not saved as part of that registration. You have to save the liveset additionally.

Now, here is the problem:

Let's say your lower liveset is a brass section. You saved it with a limitation on the lower key range, being on C4. If you want to use that liveset again on an another registration but with a different keyrange setting, you have to save that liveset under a new name. If you use that same liveset with ten different keyranges, you have to save ten different livesets of that very same liveset just because you set the keyrange differently because it is not saved as part of the registration.

Lets convert that to Kronos: it means you have to set your split points in the program instead in the combination.

Please, learn how the Jupiter80 functions. You have it long enough. Or at least, don't tell me that my post is full of errors. This is not about believing, everything I write can be tested on the keyboard. Put a pad sound into the percussion/drum part and make a split with a lower liveset at C4. Save everything as a registration. Then come back here and tell me/us which part of what I wrote is wrong.

 

The solo and perc parts are called tones. It's basically a patch with 3 elements either pcm wave or SN synth or it can just a SN acoustic tone. Live sets consists of 4 tones with expanded effects and control. There are 2 live sets. If controlling filter cutoff is important to your solo just solo on a live set. There are ways to switch in and out seamlessly.

 

Again, what has your comment to do with the fact, that on the solo part you are extremely limited to what you can control on the sound???? What if I already used up the first three parts and I don't have any liveset left? And again, let us move to the Kronos. When you are in the combi mode, are you limited on the 4th, 9th or 15th part in using and applying vibrato or controlling the filter cut off? I didn't ask you what the solo part consists of. Roland created four parts on the Jupiter 80, with different possibilities and limitations for no obvious reason.

 

This is absolutely false and makes me wonder if you actually used this board or just don't understand how to use and adapt to synthesizers because this is very basic stuff. You are ranting all over this thread about the "stupid" and "braindead" Roland engineers yet you seem to have little understanding about this board.

I can control multiple parameters in Omnisphere using E1-E4 knobs my Jupiter. The Jupiter can send a variety of CCs not all and some settings can only affect the internal tone generator.

 

Please, enlighten me and do a test for me: You also have a Kronos. Create a registration on the jp80 with just two parts. Make one part external. Connect your jp80 to your kronos. Put the Kronos into combination mode. Create a layer on the Kronos with two sounds. One sound being played on the Kronos, the other one being played from the jp80. Now, the important part: Use any of the knobs, E1-E4 and set it so, that you can control the volume of your external part, which means, set the E1 knob in the way that you can control the volume of the timbre on the Kronos which is being played by the jp80. That is a basic function and as you said, I have little understanding about the jp80, so be so kind, make this easy test and give a report back here how you did it.

 

Lets be perfectly honest here. The vast majority of players performing complex performances live are not using just one synthesizer. Not with the Kronos, not with the Motif. There is always other stuff.

 

How is this related to what I wrote about the jp80 besides you are again trying to playing down the shortcomings of the jp80? And you are completely wrong. Please, don't do that. There are dozens of keyboards, even from Roland, who are perfectly capable to be used as the only keyboard on stage.

 

 

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It's not just a matter of wanting to silence the solo sound when I'm done with it, but also extend the "middle of the keyboard" sound back up through the solo range, as it was before I invoked the solo sound. Does your strategy work for that?

 

No, that's because the machine still thinks the solo is still active. If you set the solo split, when you press the favorites button it will split the keyboard. To come out of the split you have to deactivate the part.

 

If they were going to get rid of dedicated buttons for the lower sound, they should have gotten rid of the dedicated buttons for solo as well. I don't agree that it made more sense to give you buttons for the solo part alone, because it meant you had to use two different tone selection strategies for two different regions of the keyboard.

 

I don't understand the consternation here, the "strategy" is pressing a button to choose which favorites to control. I use solo favorites to bring in additional layers.

 

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It's not just a matter of wanting to silence the solo sound when I'm done with it, but also extend the "middle of the keyboard" sound back up through the solo range, as it was before I invoked the solo sound. Does your strategy work for that?

 

No, that's because the machine still thinks the solo is still active. If you set the solo split, when you press the favorites button it will split the keyboard. To come out of the split you have to deactivate the part.

Right. So if I'm happily mostly playing my main sound, I can hit one button to bring in a solo sound up top when I need it, but I can't hit one button to get back to where I was. Hmmmph.

 

I don't understand the consternation here, the "strategy" is pressing a button to choose which favorites to control. I use solo favorites to bring in additional layers.

I was looking at the board as a 3-zone board (where, of course, the middle section could, itself, have multiple parts going). I was using the lower favorites to bring up sounds at the bottom, the solo favorites to bring up sounds at the top... and each required a different method from the other. Toward what end, I don't know. It also meant I had far fewer Solo tones available than Lower tones.

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I also picked up a book on orchestration which has been a good starting point.

 

Anything you'd recommend? I've been interested lately to do the same . . .

 

(Apologies in advance for the slight derailment.)

U1 | NP | NS3 | NE3 HP | K10
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The first part (percussion part) can't be split with a dedicated button. Instead, you have to dig into a submenu. There you set the upper key range. Let's say, you set it to B3. Now, you have to manually set the lower key range for the second part - which is the lower live set - to C4. If you have a liveset containing 4 tones, you have to set manually C4 as the lower key zone on all four of them.

 

Maybe you aren't communicating this effectively. All the key ranges for all 10 tones in the JP are programmed per registration. There is no need to save livesets if all you want to do is control key ranges. There is a button called "manual percussion" which splits the perc layer. The key range is not settable as it was designed for the player to add percussion sounds. The other mode, drums/sfx is adjustable.

 

I'm not sure why I need to further test with my Kronos or any other hardware. You said the controllers didn't send anything, they obviously do. I'm connected via MIDI DIN, not USB. Go put your hands on one to find out what it can do. Or, RTFM.

 

 

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The first part (percussion part) can't be split with a dedicated button. Instead, you have to dig into a submenu. There you set the upper key range. Let's say, you set it to B3. Now, you have to manually set the lower key range for the second part - which is the lower live set - to C4. If you have a liveset containing 4 tones, you have to set manually C4 as the lower key zone on all four of them.

 

Maybe you aren't communicating this effectively. All the key ranges for all 10 tones in the JP are programmed per registration. There is no need to save livesets if all you want to do is control key ranges. There is a button called "manual percussion" which splits the perc layer. The key range is not settable as it was designed for the player to add percussion sounds. The other mode, drums/sfx is adjustable.

 

Once again for you: there is no dedicated split button to create a split between the perc/drum part and the lower liveset. Because of that, you have to set the key range separately for the perc/drum part and the key range for the lower live set (or upper if you use it instead of the lower). The keyrange for the liveset must be saved as part of the liveset and then on top of that you have to save the whole registration. When you set a split between the 2nd, 3rd and 4th part using those dedicated split buttons, it will be saved as part of the registration which means you just have to name the registration and save it. But to create a split between the first (perc/drums) and second part, the procedure is as I described it above.

 

I'm not sure why I need to further test with my Kronos or any other hardware. You said the controllers didn't send anything, they obviously do. I'm connected via MIDI DIN, not USB. Go put your hands on one to find out what it can do. Or, RTFM.

 

Yes, I was wrong about the circular knobs. They do send midi data out. It is just that you cannot use the jp80 together with external gear, playing for example three parts on the jp80, while the 4th part would control an external module and the knob E1 would control its volume, cut off or any other parameter from the list. This is not possible at the same time. You know this very well, but as usual and as I already said, you always try everything to downplay facts which are not in favor of this keyboard.

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I think the point about them being designed by sound designers and not players is a good one.

 

I play a JP-50 semi regularly at a church gig as a stand alone board, and it's...well, it's got a tonne of nice sounds but they're bunched into an atrocious package. 3 sliders for 16 parts? You can do a lot with the JP-50, but unless you spend a long, long time with it you'd be forgiven for thinking it was only 3 part multi-timbral.

 

I love my FA - sonically, and as a workstation it kills. But some of the performance features are just bad. I've got 16 parts, but I can only edit the one I've highlighted. What's the point in all of the knobs if there's no easy way to fade another sound in? Some of the MIDI and sound switching limitations are just frustrating.

 

They seem to have clued up - the RD2000 is an excellent looking controller, but like all Roland 88s, it's a boat. If I'm a regualr gigging player (especially a weekend warrior) I don't want to carry a battleship filled with square inch upon square inch of useless, unused real estate. I love/hate Roland.

 

Kurzweil hit the nail on the head with the Forte 7. They rejigged the interface a bit to make a 76 key version of an 88 key board to fit into a 61 keyd keyboard case.

Hammond SKX

Mainstage 3

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