Roland Discontinues Jupiter-80 and Jupiter-50

[zephonic]

I have been pining for a new Roland flagship synth for years now.

 

At this point, I'd simply ask them to stick the Integra-7 in a 76-key chassis with a performance friendly layout (like how they slotted the JV1080/2080 into the XP80 and accidentally made one of the greatest keyboards of all time), that would suffice for me.

 

Alternatively, a 76-key semi-weighted aftertouch version of the RD-2000 would probably do the trick as well.

 

[EscapeRocks]

At this point, I'd simply ask them to stick the Integra-7 in a 76-key chassis with a performance friendly layout

 

 

I'd be all over this

[ElmerJFudd]

^^^

Ding!

 

They won't do it.

[mojkarma]

The problem with Roland was never the sound. The biggest problem IMO with Roland is what happens with the keyboard after the sound is created. And the Jupiter 80/50 as well as the Integra are excellent examples how a good idea can end disastrous. On the Jupiter the whole system is a mess and creates more frustration the deeper you learn and use the instrument. On the Integra you have about 6000 sounds/patches, yet some braindead "genious" decided that 64 studiosets would be enough for all the setups one may need. Not to mention that there are only 4 Slots for all the SRX expansions and the new SN acoustic ones.

 

I owned a Jupiter 80, I could write a book about how not to design a - what they call - performance keyboard. Not because I'm a keyboard designer but because I use(d) keyboards profesionally day in day out and it is very easy to understand where a keyboard supports you or where it makes your live unnecessarily difficult and complicated. And all those illogical design decisions led finally to where Roland is now: an almost irrelevant keyboard manufacturer.

 

[Al Coda]

 

... I'd simply ask them to stick the Integra-7 in a 76-key chassis with a performance friendly layout (like how they slotted the JV1080/2080 into the XP80 and accidentally made one of the greatest keyboards of all time), that would suffice for me.

 

Yep, 76-keys synth action, masterkeyboard features derived from old A-series masterkeyboards, more slots for the virtual SRX expansions and much more than 64 studio sets.

 

I´d also be happy w/ a upgraded Integra-7 including some stuff from RD-2000, p.ex SA- and V-Pianos ...

 

A.C.

 

[musicbysterling]

The dealer costs for the 80 and 50 have been heavily discounted for at least 6-8 months.

[joegerardi]

At this point, I'd simply ask them to stick the Integra-7 in a 76-key chassis...

 

Nice, but then they wouldn't put AT on the damn' thing.

 

..Joe

[Devnor]

Nice, but then they wouldn't put AT on the damn' thing.

 

Neither does anyone else.

 

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/grandstage/specifications.php

 

[Legatoboy]

Why I cant bring myself to sell my old A-50 (polyphonic AT).

[AnotherScott]

Nice, but then they wouldn't put AT on the damn' thing.

 

Neither does anyone else.

 

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/grandstage/specifications.php

While I'm about as big an advocate of aftertouch as anyone, I really wouldn't expect it on a weighted action board that is marketed primarily as a "stage piano."

[ElmerJFudd]

Me either. But it was a silly omission on the Jupiter-50 and really on any synth action/Roland semiweight "synth", especially over $1,499.99. We almost never see poly AT any longer anyway, so on a weighted action model that is both a stage piano and a synth - one would expect to see pedal controller inputs like on the CP4 instead.

[mojkarma]

Nice, but then they wouldn't put AT on the damn' thing.

 

Neither does anyone else.

 

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/grandstage/specifications.php

 

How did you come to compare a full VA synth with a stage piano?

 

Besides that, the omission of aftertouch on the jupiter 50 wasn't IMHO a big deal. On the Jupiter 80 it was hardwired and controlled the vibrato on those SN acoustic instruments which have vibrato. In the supernatural SN synth section it was hardwired to control the filter or the amp. One couldn't use aftertouch to control the LFO. So, no vibrato on that part. For controlling vibrato, one had to use either the modulation stick or an expression pedal.

In other word: you could open the filter or make the sound louder if you use the SN synth section. This section is also responsible for some acoustic sounds on the jupiter like e. guitars which are not supernatural like on the integra. Instead of introducing a vibrato with the aftertouch, you can only make it louder/quieter with the aftertouch or you could open or close the filter. For me personally, this kind of implementation was completely useless in real life usage.

[burningbusch]

 

How did you come to compare a full VA synth with a stage piano?

 

Besides that, the omission of aftertouch on the jupiter 50 wasn't IMHO a big deal. On the Jupiter 80 it was hardwired and controlled the vibrato on those SN acoustic instruments which have vibrato. In the supernatural SN synth section it was hardwired to control the filter or the amp. One couldn't use aftertouch to control the LFO. So, no vibrato on that part. For controlling vibrato, one had to use either the modulation stick or an expression pedal.

In other word: you could open the filter or make the sound louder if you use the SN synth section. This section is also responsible for some acoustic sounds on the jupiter like e. guitars which are not supernatural like on the integra. Instead of introducing a vibrato with the aftertouch, you can only make it louder/quieter with the aftertouch or you could open or close the filter. For me personally, this kind of implementation was completely useless in real life usage.

 

Roland's approach with this SN stuff has been a dumbing down, I assume with the idea of making things "just work." But it's frustrating. With the EPs I think the only parameter available is the level of a noise component. On the Yamaha CP1/5/4 and Korg EP-1 you have a host of parameters you can use to change the sound. All these are some form of "modeling." I never understood the fact with SN strings/winds, expression gets reset with a new note trigger. That's NOT how it works with real string/wind players. It should be extended across the phrase, not limited to the note.

 

Busch.

[mojkarma]

Back in time when the Fantom G series was actual, there were the ARX expansion cards. And by purchasing them, you were able to fine tune a lot of parameters and model the instrument in the way you like. Electric piano was one of the ARX card. It contained not only the key off noise but a lot of other parameters too. Then, with the release of the Jupiter 80, suddenly the number of editable parameters was reduced to ONE. I don't know why, but I already said it in one of my previous posts, there was something really going badly wrong at Roland a few years ago.

[Devnor]

While I'm about as big an advocate of aftertouch as anyone, I really wouldn't expect it on a weighted action board that is marketed primarily as a "stage piano."

 

What does marketing have to do with this? That "stage piano" also has 2 synth engines.

[AnotherScott]

While I'm about as big an advocate of aftertouch as anyone, I really wouldn't expect it on a weighted action board that is marketed primarily as a "stage piano."

 

What does marketing have to do with this? That "stage piano" also has 2 synth engines.

Marketing has a lot to do with everything. And while this stage piano has synth engines which are used in some of its presets, it has almost no synth controls. If you're looking for a true "synth," lack of aftertouch is not nearly its biggest limitation.

[zephonic]

Besides that, the omission of aftertouch on the jupiter 50 wasn't IMHO a big deal. On the Jupiter 80 it was hardwired and controlled the vibrato on those SN acoustic instruments which have vibrato. In the supernatural SN synth section it was hardwired to control the filter or the amp. One couldn't use aftertouch to control the LFO. So, no vibrato on that part. For controlling vibrato, one had to use either the modulation stick or an expression pedal.

In other word: you could open the filter or make the sound louder if you use the SN synth section. This section is also responsible for some acoustic sounds on the jupiter like e. guitars which are not supernatural like on the integra. Instead of introducing a vibrato with the aftertouch, you can only make it louder/quieter with the aftertouch or you could open or close the filter. For me personally, this kind of implementation was completely useless in real life usage.

 

This was one of the main reasons I didn't get a Jupiter 80; an inexplicable omission. Modulation and LFO are the primary tasks for aftertouch on my Fantom X7. Not being able to do that is almost as bad as not having aftertouch at all.

 

What's more, on the Fantom and older Rolands (D70, XP80 etc), aftertouch implementation was miles ahead of the competition. I honestly discovered it by accident, and it was intuitive and natural. Shame they failed to equip the JP80 with that.

 

 

[John64]

In the meantime we've gone past NAMM without anything remotely resembling a successor flagship from Roland.

I'm kind of hoping that MAYBE they have something waiting in the wings for next Musikmesse, but I don't know.

Boutiques are nice, the AIRA stuff sounds good, but if that is all that is left of the old Roland it makes me sad.

[allan_evett]

In the meantime we've gone past NAMM without anything remotely resembling a successor flagship from Roland.

I'm kind of hoping that MAYBE they have something waiting in the wings for next Musikmesse, but I don't know.

Boutiques are nice, the AIRA stuff sounds good, but if that is all that is left of the old Roland it makes me sad.

 

I suspect that the new Roland is more hesitant to throw everything into a new flagship (workstation ?). Much as a new stage-oriented pro keyboard could be fun for many of us here, we're a relatively small population in the gear business. Meanwhile, the RD-2000 will be getting some updates this month, including synth expansion tones. And the FA-07 ticks a lot of boxes for keyboardists. Between that and the VR-09/730 there's a lot of coverage for a wide group of players.

 

An advanced SuperNatural / ACB technology synth could present some intriguing competition for the new Korg Prologue, but if it's ever done I think it'd be more lean 'n mean - like the Prologue, vs. a bombastic do-it-all.

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

Matrix Synth - Roland Discontinues Jupiter-80 and Jupiter-50

 

What do you guys think is coming?

 

 

Nothing. I said quite a while ago the JP-80 would be Rolands last pro polysynth. They will withdraw from the professional synth market just like they withdrew from the professional workstation market when they discontinued the Fantom G.

 

The JP-80 was Kakehashi San's last synth.

 

Called it!

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Roland followed the path of Clavia - phase out the high-end synths in favor of "stage keys" (piano and organ emulators with just enough of a synth section for cover band work)

[Moonglow]

I suspect that the new Roland is more hesitant to throw everything into a new flagship (workstation ?). Much as a new stage-oriented pro keyboard could be fun for many of us here, we're a relatively small population in the gear business.....a bombastic do-it-all.

I always thought the sales numbers for the Kronos have been healthy. If that is accurate, I'm wondering if there would be an equally strong market for a Roland keyboard that followed a similar path? They seem to have the "raw materials."

 

Meanwhile, the RD-2000 will be getting some updates this month, including synth expansion tones.

That is good news. The Roland guy I spoke with at NAMM 2017 said these would be forthcoming. Definitely interested in hearing the synth updates, Allan.....so if you hear someone knocking on your door don't call the cops.

[TomKittel]

Nice, but then they wouldn't put AT on the damn' thing.

 

Neither does anyone else.

 

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/grandstage/specifications.php

While I'm about as big an advocate of aftertouch as anyone, I really wouldn't expect it on a weighted action board that is marketed primarily as a "stage piano."

 

AT is one of many reasons why I love the Forte 7 so much.

[GovernorSilver]

I always thought the sales numbers for the Kronos have been healthy. If that is accurate, I'm wondering if there would be an equally strong market for a Roland keyboard that followed a similar path? They seem to have the "raw materials."

 

Seems like Roland tried to challenge the Kronos with the Jupiter 80/50 and lost, marketwise. Otherwise they wouldn't have decided to discontinue the Jupiters.

 

Perhaps the Montage also stole market share from the Jupiters.

[Michael W]

I owned a Jupiter 80, I could write a book about how not to design a - what they call - performance keyboard. Not because I'm a keyboard designer but because I use(d) keyboards profesionally day in day out and it is very easy to understand where a keyboard supports you or where it makes your live unnecessarily difficult and complicated. And all those illogical design decisions led finally to where Roland is now: an almost irrelevant keyboard manufacturer.

 

I had a love-hate relationship with my Jupiter-50 until I got rid of it some months back. I loved many of the "Supernatural" sounds (wished there were more), and the on-board VA synth is massively awesome. Layered synth/keyboard sounds are spectacular on the Jupiters. But the operating system is totally yanked, and the lack of many real-time front panel controls (including the ability to quickly access sounds) makes the J-50 a real chore to use.

 

One nice plus with the Jupiters, though, is the quality of the synth-action keyboards.

 

[Moonglow]

I always thought the sales numbers for the Kronos have been healthy. If that is accurate, I'm wondering if there would be an equally strong market for a Roland keyboard that followed a similar path? They seem to have the "raw materials."

 

Seems like Roland tried to challenge the Kronos with the Jupiter 80/50 and lost, marketwise. Otherwise they wouldn't have decided to discontinue the Jupiters.

 

Perhaps the Montage also stole market share from the Jupiters.

Yeah, youre probably right based on the technology Roland had available at the time. I just like how the Kronos contains faithful reproductions of the Polysix and MS-20 engines, for example. While Roland came out with the Synth Legends for the Jupiter, they were not as good (sonically) as the synths represented in the Boutique series, which involve technology that was introduced after the Jupiters. So an updated Roland flagship keyboard, perhaps starting with a RD-2000 design (e.g., interface, V-Piano) but also included the guts of a Jupiter-80 (or even better, the Integra-7) and some of the Boutique engines, would be incredible. Again, based on the popularity of the Kronos, which sort of started the concept with its nine engines, I bet it would sell really well. Similarly, I also wish Yamahas Montage had the Reface engines under the hood.

[Doerfler]

Similarly, I also wish Yamahas Montage had the Reface engines under the hood.

 

[John64]

I suspect that the new Roland is more hesitant to throw everything into a new flagship (workstation ?). Much as a new stage-oriented pro keyboard could be fun for many of us here, we're a relatively small population in the gear business. Meanwhile, the RD-2000 will be getting some updates this month, including synth expansion tones. And the FA-07 ticks a lot of boxes for keyboardists. Between that and the VR-09/730 there's a lot of coverage for a wide group of players.

 

An advanced SuperNatural / ACB technology synth could present some intriguing competition for the new Korg Prologue, but if it's ever done I think it'd be more lean 'n mean - like the Prologue, vs. a bombastic do-it-all.

Actually, the launch of the high end RD-2000 made me hopeful that at some point a new Fantom or successor of the Jupiter-80 would see the light of day.

 

The KORG KRONOS shows that musicians WILL buy an expensive workstation provided that it offers the proverbial 'bang for the buck'.

The KRONOS also redefined what musicians can expect in a workstation in this price range in terms of features and quality of sound, and it became a benchmark for anything the competition might come up with, a tough act to follow.

 

I think Roland has the technology to come up with a unique workstation/synth capable of claiming a place of its own.

I just hope that, -as has been noted in this thread-, Roland will not continue to downsize the SN engine and remove modeling features.

Maybe the lack of sufficient processing power made the Roland designers decide to remove modeling features?

 

I hope that they successfully managed to exorcise the evil genie haunting the Roland mansion which made the designers come up with strange illogical quirks requiring work-arounds.

But I have confidence that they learned a few lessons from the past.

 

So an updated Roland flagship keyboard, perhaps starting with a RD-2000 design (e.g., interface, V-Piano) but also included the guts of a Jupiter-80 (or even better, the Integra-7) and some of the Boutique engines, would be incredible.

Totally agree with you, and I would be among the first to get one.

There are a lot of gold nuggets in Roland's back garden, all they have to do is dig them up, and polish and refine them.

Among the musicians I know there are quite a few who would love to see the return of some of the instruments Roland left behind.

[RABid]

I think that keeping the JP-80 quality keyboard, going back to the Fantom format, and adding the VK organ and some of the Boutique modules would make a "must have" keyboard that can compete with Kronos.

[iluvchiclets]

I would love to see a keyboard with lots of knobs and their Supernatural Synth engine on board.

I really enjoyed and miss many of the synth presets on the FA06 (and the JP50/80 would have been the same?)

 

Something like an updated GAIA, but with thousands of patches and no "true-analog" stuff in order to keep the costs down. I don't need real analog when it sounds that good...

[allan_evett]

I suspect that the new Roland is more hesitant to throw everything into a new flagship (workstation ?). Much as a new stage-oriented pro keyboard could be fun for many of us here, we're a relatively small population in the gear business.....a bombastic do-it-all.

I always thought the sales numbers for the Kronos have been healthy. If that is accurate, I'm wondering if there would be an equally strong market for a Roland keyboard that followed a similar path? They seem to have the "raw materials."

 

Meanwhile, the RD-2000 will be getting some updates this month, including synth expansion tones.

That is good news. The Roland guy I spoke with at NAMM 2017 said these would be forthcoming. Definitely interested in hearing the synth updates, Allan.....so if you hear someone knocking on your door don't call the cops.

 

 

Roland certainly has the raw materials, so it's also possible they might have a new performance instrument up their sleeves. Combine a poly version of the SE-02 module, SN technology, and an improved front panel control section; that'd be a useful and powerful instrument.

What's also interesting is the recent discontinuation of the RD-64. Makes me wonder is there's something compact, versatile, and $$-friendly ready to spring. 'Messe is coming soon..