No love for the DMC-122/Gemini anymore?

[jeffincltnc]

I am thinking about putting in an order for a DMC-122/Gemini combination and I really haven't heard much on the forum about this. I did see a thread a while back as it first came out, but I can't tell if the user base for this has ever really gotten traction.

 

It still seems like a great all in one solution, double manual, and lots of great sounds.

 

For bread and butter sounds - Hammond organ, rhodes, wurly and clav, the videos sound a lot better than my Nord Electro. The synth looks like fun with aftertouch and is a weak spot on my Electro 5.

 

Acoustic pianos - ok, Nord has this, easily. No question about it.

 

What else am I missing? Why isn't the DMC-122/Gemini getting more of a user base? It's not like there isn't awareness of Mojo dual manuals and 61s, either.

[DaBous]

I have had one of these for a while. Not my main setup, but I use it for pickup gigs and for some local jams where I am in the house band. Great organ and sound module that can also drive vsts on my laptop.

 

It is a nice all in one as long as you aren't too dependant on acoustic pianos. I never use the AP in the gemini, but hoping it will be upgraded soon. Maybe I can leave my laptop at home then.

 

The VA synth is nice, EPs are good, the wah clav is excellent.

 

Not sure I would agree that the internal sounds are better than Nord ( I have an Electro 5D 73 also ), but they are in the same league except for AP. Both work well in a band mix.

 

If you are primarily an organ player, want some great additional sounds and midi controller functions, I would highly recommend it.

 

I suspect that most players don't need the midi functions so go for the Mojo or Mojo 61. There is a group on facebook for Mojo and DMC/122 users. Some good discussions there if you want to hear from current owners.

[phatmann]

I returned my DMC-122 and Gemini today, after spending many weeks trying to make it work for me. I wanted to love it, since it is the only dual manual MIDI controller with two sets of drawbars. But there were too many issues.

 

It arrived damaged due to inadequate packaging during the container shipment. The metal had a large dent in it, and the wood sides were heavily scratched. It is clear that the wood would not survive many gigs unless you used a hard case. One of the keys was much stiffer than the others, but other than that the damage seemed to just be cosmetic.

 

Speaking of the keys, the board has a fairly stiff action. The idea is that it would be springy enough for organ, yet stiff enough to be expressive on piano patches. However, the stiffness did not really help the piano sounds feel more expressive, so all it ended up doing was making the action slower and a bit less comfortable. On the other hand, the aftertouch is incredibly nice and responsive, just right for adding in some vibrato.

 

The DMC-122 software is not very good. Managing setups is not very intuitive, and it is easy to lose your work if you are not careful. Making changes to the controls is cumbersome, and it crashed quite frequently on me. Ideally you make a few setups that work for you and then avoid the software from them on.

 

If you turn the velocity off on a manual, it then uses the high contact for a faster, organ-like feel. This is a great feature, but you cannot turn it on or off via MIDI. You can change a setup via SysEx command, but setup loading takes a second and so this might not be an adequate workaround.

 

The controls are laid out to be advantageous for playing organ, yet none of them are marked as such (chorus, key click, etc.). This makes performing on organ less pleasant for me, since it feels less real. The Leslie speed up switch (by default F2) is in a particularly awkward location, so plan on using a half-moon switch or foot pedal.

 

If you use some buttons for program changes, there is no way to make them latch on. This is disappointing, as you cannot see which program you selected.

 

All the knobs are on the left side of the board. I wished they instead had two groups on knobs on the left and right, so each manual had its own clear set (like the drawbars). In general the asymmetric layout of the controls is distracting, and is clearly an artifact of the organ heritage and not designed for general usability.

 

I was equally disappointed with the Gemini. The most profound issue is the utter lack of integration between the two units. For example, there is no way to see the chosen patch on the display. Choosing a patch requires using the buttons to manually type patch numbers!

 

The assumption is that you will control the Gemini 100% via the web interface it provides. This interface has decent functionality, but has a very primitive look and feel. Basic operations like moving presets around can only be done via awkward workarounds. Because the UI uses a lot of clunky, space-hogging sliders and is not paginated, you will end up doing a lot of scrolling around on an iPad and even larger screens. This makes the interface very unfriendly for performing. Also, the Wifi setup can be very finicky.

 

The organ sound is absolutely incredible. On recordings it sounds just like a real B3, with spot-on chorus, key click, and Leslie sim. This, like the Mojo, might be the best clonewheel out there. Another reason I wanted to love this unit.

 

The EP and Clav patches are decent, but I expected to be more blown away by the physical modeling. They all lacked a certain punch and attitude I crave. The acoustic piano is very weak. The synth is surprisingly good, but the awkward web UI makes it less attractive than it would be, since fiddling with the sounds is not frictionless. I like the Orchestra sound generator very much being able to bring instruments in and out of the mix is cool.

 

I had to exchange my first Gemini due to a faulty jack. Both that unit and the second unit were very noisy, with lots of hiss/buzz compared to my other boards. It would be fine in a live situation, but in rehearsals it was a real problem.

 

Sadly there is nothing at all like the DMC-122 right now. If you want a dual-manual organ-friendly controller with built-in sounds when you need them, then perhaps you can get over all the shortcomings. Unfortunately for me the problems all added up to a board that I did not enjoy playing.

[jeffincltnc]

Thanks. That is perhaps the most depressing product review on this forum ever.

 

I wanted to love this. Perhaps there is a Viscount Legend Live and a bunch of iPad apps like Ravenscroft and Neo Soul to cover other sounds in my future.

[AnotherScott]

I wonder if the Gemini desktop module might provide a better operational experience connected to some other controller than does the board in the DMC.

[t9cstudio]

Count me in as showing my love for the DMC/Gemini combo!

 

The controller has been discussed here and the FB group ad nauseum in the last year. It's good that you ask so many questions, but you owe it to yourself to at least try it out.

 

Regarding the Gemini desktop, I too think a more complete experience would be over the installed version, but the difference in cost is substantial. I will agree that the Gemini web app performs poorly on an iPad and too large to fit on a iPhone. I bought a $60 Winpad and now the web app works just fine. Never had a problem with connecting to it with any device. Even with it's quirks, the web app still btho the Mojo's vga monitor solution. Interoperability between the DMC and the Gemini seem fine to me. It just has to be programmed and that alone can make grown men (me)lose substantial hair.

 

I don't understand phatmann's beef with the keybed. It's a Fatar. Many brands use the same keybed. Gripes about the controls not being labeled would just cause someone like me who wants those controls/switches/faders programmed as something different to question why they were labeled in the first place. I'm sure Guido designed it that way because it's a $1,400 dual manual controller! Find me anything like it for that price. You can't.

 

 

 

[ABECK]

Managing setups is not very intuitive, and it is easy to lose your work if you are not careful. Making changes to the controls is cumbersome, and it crashed quite frequently on me. Ideally you make a few setups that work for you and then avoid the software from them on.

It is a little trickyand early on, I definitely lost a few setups. As long as I physically press the store button on the DMC, It works fine for me. Never had a crash. Theres a lot of configuration power in setups beyond serving up groups of presets. It does take time and creativity though (e.g. I have a setup where the left side is all effect parameter related and the right all presets.)

The Leslie speed up switch (by default F2) is in a particularly awkward location, so plan on using a half-moon switch or foot pedal.

Yes highly recommend the half moon

If you use some buttons for program changes, there is no way to make them latch on. This is disappointing, as you cannot see which program you selected.

This IS weird and slightly annoying. Im surprised they havent addressed this with an update. When using the buttons as drawbar presets, they do remain lit up.

This interface has decent functionality, but has a very primitive look and feel. Basic operations like moving presets around can only be done via awkward workarounds. Because the UI uses a lot of clunky, space-hogging sliders and is not paginated, you will end up doing a lot of scrolling around on an iPad and even larger screens. This makes the interface very unfriendly for performing.

Agreed theres room for improvement on the overall organization of the presets. When creating a custom setup, Ill access the Gemini over wifi from my mac its so much easier to have the DMC software on one side of my monitor (from USB) and the Gemini console on the other (from WiFI) rather than use a tablet/PC combo. That way I can easily map controllers to the software.

 

The organ sound is absolutely incredible. On recordings it sounds just like a real B3, with spot-on chorus, key click, and Leslie sim. This, like the Mojo, might be the best clonewheel out there.

For the cost if all it did was B3, youd still be hard pressed to find betterbut with all the other sounds, its hard to beat the value.

 

[The_Star_Guy]

I wonder if the Gemini desktop module might provide a better operational experience connected to some other controller than does the board in the DMC.

 

I sure hope so as well. I still have my eye on this product in my personal short list as a potential "Nord alternative" option coupled with the appropriate controller keyboard.

[denkom67]

I agree with some of Phatmann's criticisms. My DMC arrived and only half of the keys on the upper manual would play initially. Luckily after a few emails with GSI, they provided instructions on how to open the unit and fortunately all that was wrong was that a ribbon cable had become disengaged during shipping. As Phatmann noted, I also find the Gemini unit itself to be quite noisy, and have an intermittent problem where the integrated wifi is transmitting a signal that is picked up by my studio monitors. I'm also not crazy about the editing software - it's a bit buggy and not particularly attractive.

 

All that said, though, I'm still loving it and not regretting the purchase. I probably could have done just with the DMC, but find that the EP's, clav, and VA synth are all excellent on the Gemini. And as ABECK notes, this is about as good as it gets for a double keybed B3 controller.

[DaveMcM]

I have never been happier with a keyboard purchase than with the DMC-122/Gemini. From being a versatile dual manual controller to all of the great sounds, it is always fun to play. As with any instrument, I have a wish list of changes or additions, but honestly that list is very short. It would be nice if the DMC-122 presets could be named so you know at a glance what sound is live from each manual. I would like the LED's to remain illuminated when selecting presets and could go for a bit more choice in pop brass type sounds as well as acoustic piano. The existing acoustic piano is a very nice, playable sound, fairly dependent on amplification (no surprise). Is it as good as an instrument dedicated to piano type sounds? maybe not. But I have been using this instrument exclusively for months now and while there are times I would like more key range and weighted keys, the sound works just fine. I still have an 88 key weighted instrument, but it has been very nice not having to carry it to gigs, not to mention the extra cables, two tier stand, longer set up time, etc.

 

Regarding the keyboard feel, I'm good with it. I understand the Mojo action is lightened up in some way specifically to closer emulate that of a B3 action. Neat idea, but I'm happy with the DMC-122 action. I still have a Roland VR760 for quick and dirty in/out gigs which has a very light action and hate trying to play piano style parts on it. The DMC-122 is far more comfortable, not like a weighted action 88 key, no, but it isn't horrendous.

 

Phatmann mentioned turning velocity off for organ which is cool but also said you were stuck with that setting until calling up another SetUp. Not so, you can assign this function, per manual, to front panel buttons. Typically I have organ on the upper manual and other velocity controlled sounds on the lower manual. Occasionally I will pull up something other than organ on the upper manual and want velocity control so I simply press the assigned switch. Speaking of switches, knobs, etc. and the lack of labeling...it's a controller keyboard designed to control whatever you've got, it's not supposed to have labels.

 

As for the DMC-122 editor and Gemini editor, haven't had any bad experiences with either. They do what they need to do. In response to the comment about the Gemini editor, if you have all windows open simultaneously, it can be very hard to move around. But, if you double-tap the title bar at the top, all windows will close down leaving you with menu buttons. You simply have have to double-tap the one you want and only that set of functions will be displayed making even and iPhone usable Still kind of small but it works. Smarter to buy a cheap Android tablet to use on gigs, if you really feel you have to access the editor while performing. A couple of times on a gig I got the itch to try a different patch and it was simple to do this from my iPhone 6.

 

As I mentioned above, I really love the DMC-122/Gemini. There is really nothing else like it on the market. You have to realize and be comfortable with the fact that this is an extremely versatile MIDI controller keyboard and a separate sound module that just happens to reside inside the case of the DMC-122. And then focus on what it can do by delving into and using the functionality that was designed into the instrument without getting hung up on something you think it should do but doesn't. Although Guido and Andrea seem very interested and willing to create updates for new features, or making changes if enough requests are made, so huge applause to them.

 

One more thing, when amplifying the Gemini, make sure you are matching its output appropriately to the input of your mixer. The 3 way switch on the back of the Gemini is there for a reason and as long as you do things properly, the noise floor should be as low as anything else.

[AnotherScott]

I still have a Roland VR760 for quick and dirty in/out gigs

Doesn't that weigh almost as much as the DMC-122? Is it really that much faster/easier to get in with that than the DMC?

[DaveMcM]

Yeah, weights close to the same. But, and these gigs are rare, if it is very tight quarters where there is a chance of dancers knocking into my gear, or some outside thing with iffy weather, or just in general places where I don't want to take my best equipment, I keep it around. Actually I have been leaving it at the church I play at running through a Motion Sound. I have a GEM Promega 3 for piano (joy!!!) but needed some organ and other sounds and it fits the bill for that.