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Well... i've got a problem. I know that this sort of thing gets incredibly complex really fast, and that there probably isn't really any way that anyone else could "help" me with it.

 

But maybe if i'm allowed to just sit and write it all out with the precept of thinking that someone else could read it and/or just nod their head in understanding, that would be therapeutic.

 

As a side note, I have this odd feeling that writing this up is somehow going to come back to bite me in the ayse later, but i'm chancing it. Fwiw, i've typed this up sporadically throughout the day between work projects so it might read a little choppy-like. And yes, I also know that this is possibly Off-Topic, but thenagain, it could be the basis of a song ;)

 

I met this girl.....

 

Ok, I see that some of you have left already...

 

How I met this girl is a bit bizarre, but that's not really important, i don't think. We live a couple of hours apart, but that hasn't stopped us from emailing, talking on the phone, and/or driving out to see each other, etc.

 

In effect, she's truly an amazing creature. We both have so much in common it is probably criminal. We both like the same blues/classic rock/stoner rock/prog rock stuff, we both play guitar (we even have identical stratocasters with the same wiring/fret problems), we both like to code in C and struggle coding in Perl, dig the same video games and operating systems, and on and on and on. In fact, if i were to sit down, and write out a list of "Everything I'd Want In A Woman" she'd be on par with each item. She's smart, she's pretty, she's got a great sense of humour, a great attitude on life, the universe and everything, and is real down-to-earth. She's the Ultimate Geek Fantasy Girl.

 

I can't really find anything wrong with her, either. Not even the little stuff that i'd probably just overlook anyways.

 

So you folks are like "right on, dewd! lucky you! go for it!" getting ready to high-five me silly and stuff....

 

But I can't seem to really get into her, even though i have every reason to do so. I *want* to fall in love with her, i really do. But unlike all the "others" in the past, i'm not all intoxicated with the usual stupid-mongering infatuation/lust that typically crops up in this stage of "dating" someone. I realise that being infatuated or physically attracted isn't necessarily the same as "in love with" someone, and true "love" is something you can't rush, but still.

 

What bothers me, is that the little voice in my head keeps saying stuff like "back off" or "slow down". This is very puzzling. And this isn't the first time this has happened to me in the last 5 years or so. There have been other women i've met, gotten somewhat involved with, but never really developed any *genuine* interest in pursuing much of anything with.

 

I always found reasons for this, or maybe used them as an excuse. You know, the usual stuff that you find on the "dating scene". This one's too much into drugs, that one's irresponsible, she over there is a drama magnet, whatshername is a gold digger, this one is false and plasticky, etc... stuff like that.

 

The last girl that really got her hooks into me was about 5 years ago. We'll call her "D", and it was a total rollercoaster of a relationship that crash landed in such a way that i was left standing cold and alone with all my shattered emotions in a 5 gallon bucket.

 

And i think that's about the time i started being completely uninterested in women. Emotionally or sexually.

 

(for the record, i'm not into guys either).

 

But i feel like i'm over her now. I don't yearn for "D", i don't think about her every day (like i used to). I haven't written any more songs about her. Over. Done. In fact, by yet another bizarre turn of events, we are even friends now.

 

So i don't know what the holdup is. Maybe i'm expecting too much too early (i think we've known each other for about 3 weeks). Maybe i don't know what _love_ really is, which might be disconcerting seeing that i'm almost 30.

 

I really don't want _this_one_ to get away. Logically and rationally i can see that (so far) she's the best candidate for anything serious that i've ever come across, but I can't bring myself into being either emotionally or physically attracted to her.

 

It's very strange, and I'm hoping that it's something that will pass in time. But if anyone has any sage advice to offer i'd be really appreciative.

 

Oh, and i know that some of you might not want to touch this topic with a 10-foot pole, and i don't really blame you for that either.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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WWND?

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As i quoth myself:

 

(for the record, i'm not into guys either).

 

Let me add to that, that i never have been into guys. I'm a straight heterosexual d00d, but the way it rolls off kinda sounds like i used to be bisexual or something- i'm not.

 

(i'm not a homophobe either. to each their own, everyone is beautiful, blah blah)...

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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If the spark isn't there, it isn't there. I wouldn't worry about it, if everything else is so well matched, well, you've probably got a friend for life, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

There's a book I'd recommend to you, The Bridge Across Forever, by Richard Bach (he also wrote Jonathan Livingston Seagull). The author goes thru a lot of the same thing you are, it might be interesting.

 

Disclaimer: The above advice comes from a 44-year old dweeb who's never been married, it may not be worth the electrons its written on (but the book is still good!) ;)

Botch

"Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will

www.puddlestone.net

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That's a tough one, but you can't really force yourself to have certain feelings, can you? It should come naturally. In either case, she sounds like she's a great person for you, so continue hanging out. Maybe something will happen. You can't force things, and sometimes, it just takes time. In the mean time, make sure that it doesn't seem like you have any hang-ups, phobias, or things that could potentially be impeding this (or any other) relationship. Good luck!!!!
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Just relax.

 

You are rushing yourself. You want definite feelings that simply haven't developed yet. It seems clear that you like this girl. Let that be enough. When it's time to take the next step...you'll know.

 

I have a friend of mine who will probably never get married because she over analyzes EVERYTHING.

 

I have another friend who has been pretty seriously hurt in a former relationship. He has been alone for 5 years. Very frustrated, and starting to feel like he might Ms. Right

 

He met a girl. They became friends (and that was ALL). Their relationship deepened over time. They just got married this past weekend. I personally have no doubt in my mind that they are meant for each other. His patience paid off.

 

The people I'm mentioning are in their mid 30's to early 40's.

 

Relax, man...you'll be all right.

Super 8

 

Hear my stuff here

 

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most of the posts here have it right on the money, I would only add that it`s often the way our differences combine that make a couple truly more than the sum of their parts. Someone spacy needs someone level-headed. Someone who`s overly detail-oriented falls for someone who sees the big picture. Enjoy what you have, don`t try to make it into something else.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

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most of the posts here have it right on the money, I would only add that it`s often the way our differences combine that make a couple truly more than the sum of their parts. Someone spacy needs someone level-headed. Someone who`s overly detail-oriented falls for someone who sees the big picture. Enjoy what you have, don`t try to make it into something else.

 

Well said. However, it also helps to be on the same wavelength as someone else. I'm not trying to make it into something that it's not, it's clearly headed that way.

 

But the part i'll work on now is just the "Enjoy what you have" ;)

 

"...If they`re so advanced, why don`t they just come down here and show themselves?"

 

"You`re more advanced than a cockroach. Did you ever try explaining youself to one?"

 

Btw, word on the street is that they started working on the movie again. ;)

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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Wow. That's a tough one phaeton.

 

On the one hand, sometimes there just isn't any "chemistry" between people regardless of how well matched they SEEM to be or even how close of friends they are. And sometimes there's no explaining what makes one person so attractive and another not, all other things being equal. But it happens all the time.

 

On the other hand, it sounds like there ARE some obstacles in the way of you becoming intimate with ANYone. And it goes beyond being over "D". Even though you might be over HER, obviously you felt some terrible pain and had a lot of wounded pride that you just don't want to go through again, and getting involved with someone else means to you, subconsciously, that you might have to go through that again. So that is something you'll probably have to look at within yourself.

 

BUT... the real bottom line is there is absolutely no way you can know anything in 3 weeks. People think love can only grow from some sort of love-at-first-sight infatuation. These days people also seem to think you should sleep together after a few dates and that will help cement the deal. The fact is it's a recipe for getting hurt unnecessarily, because you often find out at some point that it was only infatuation and the sex gave you a false feeling of being closer than you really were or had a right to be. If you get hurt enough times that way, you get hardened to it which is even worse. I know a lot of people like that unfortunately.

 

In MY little fucked up dinosaur world (by today's "standards" or lack thereof), true love can only develop from true friendship and trust, which can only come with time. If you're so infatuated with each other and so anxious to get into each other's pants right away that you don't leave time for that to develop, then it's real easy to set yourself up to get your heart broken. I think that might be the little message you're sending to yourself: really get to know her first, in depth. For some people (myself included), sexual interest can only develop from love and trust, and that takes time. So don't be cold with her, be open and affectionate but just take your time, be her friend, develop some trust in her and try to be someone she can trust too. And once that comes together I'll bet the ol' pecker will come around. :D And the sex will be way better that way, too.

 

Signed,

somebody who's been there

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I've been with my present girlfriend for 4 1/2 years now. Before that, we were friends for almost six years. I hope that you are patient, enjoy her company and your time together, and just let everything evolve naturally.
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Signed,

somebody who's been there

 

I hope that doesn't include the part about the ol' pecker ;)

 

But I think a lot of the second part of what you said is true. Maybe i've become hardened, or maybe i'm subconsciously apprehensive in a way i cannot control or see consciously.

 

I *do* intend on being her friend, and hanging out, earning trust and respect and all that. I don't want to rush things either(even though she's kinda trying a little bit)... I'm in no hurry to get into her pants (like i've been in the past). I'd rather wait.

 

Though, i fear that she's quite infatuated with me. In the past, i would have used that as a golden opportunity to lead her straight to bed. But i'm not interested in leading her on or playing games. I'm an old man now, i've been around the block a few times in this department, and i'm done screwing around with shit. Seriously. I can at least say that ole "D" broke me of all that stuff.

 

I'm not expecting a love-at-first-sight/infatuation to happen in 3 weeks time that would be worth a shit, but i guess i was hoping for at least a little interest (on my part), other than just going through the motions and reacting to her...

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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Originally posted by phaeton:

I hope that doesn't include the part about the ol' pecker ;)

LOL... well, it does if you count other people's peckers! :D

 

Yeah I don't think 3 weeks is enough time for ANYthing to happen, especially if you're still kinda in vulnerable frightened mode. It could take months really, maybe even longer than that.

 

If I were you and you think she's infatuated with you, I'd be honest with her about what you're going through and tell her not to expect too much too soon. She probably doesn't want to lose you and these days a lot of supposedly liberated women feel like if they don't want to lose a guy they'd better sleep with him quick. So it's possible that if you're honest with her she might even be relieved. But even if she's a little disappointed, at least she'll know you're looking out for her and letting her know what's going on with you.

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If I were you and you think she's infatuated with you, I'd be honest with her about what you're ..snip..

relieved. But even if she's a little disappointed, at least she'll know you're looking out for her and letting her know what's going on with you.

 

Yeah, and i've been wrestling with that myself... deciding whether it'd be best if i sat her down and did the whole "i think we should slow down" talk. It's something that i think needs to happen, but i've never done it before, and i'm not sure how to put the toothpaste back into the tube, persay, or if that's really possible. I'm going to have to really think this all through so that I get the right message to her. Fortunately she's level-headed and intelligent, and won't try any stupid headgame tricks.

 

She's mentioned a self-imposed "6-month rule" on sleeping with anyone she dates. Interestingly, it looks like -I- am going to be the one holding her to it ;)

 

(from your first post):

On the other hand, it sounds like there ARE some obstacles in the way of you becoming intimate with ANYone. And it goes beyond being over "D". Even though you might be over HER, obviously you felt some terrible pain and had a lot of wounded pride that you just don't want to go through again, and getting involved with someone else means to you, subconsciously, that you might have to go through that again. So that is something you'll probably have to look at within yourself.

 

It is definately all me. I'm the one with the baggage, or obstacles, and I'm fully aware of that. Problem is, i can't see the forest for the trees- i don't know what the obstacles are for. I don't feel shy or nervous around her. I don't have any feelings of jealousy or abandonment. I'm pretty confident that she's not a gold digger, or a control freak, or a bitch, or anything like that. It's not a fear of commitment, or at least it doesn't seem like it.

 

I dunno.. it's kinda weird. All the symptoms of being turned off by "something", but no idea what that something is.

 

the guy with the hilarous avatar sez:

i was just friends with my wife(she was engaged) when i met her. we've been together for close to 20 years now.

 

what a fucking ride!

 

be nice to that girl and have some fun.

 

I intend to be nothing but nice to this girl. Being friends with someone, truly friends first, then a love interest later is the sorts of things i used to fantasize about all the time, when i used to fantasize about those sorts of things..

 

man with 11 shadows says:

I've been with my present girlfriend for 4 1/2 years now. Before that, we were friends for almost six years. I hope that you are patient, enjoy her company and your time together, and just let everything evolve naturally.

 

I'm incredibly patient. To a fault, even. You know how some ppl say "you can't date someone who is your friend". It's nice to see examples disproving that here and there :)

 

(to all):

And fwiw, i know what a real stretch it is for someone to try to understand what i'm babbling about, even in light of all of us knowing that these are solely my issues and in the end, i'm the one that has to sort them out.

 

But I really appreciate all of you folks chiming in anyways. Of anything i don't feel so alone with it ;)

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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Many people are so insecure and desperate for a relationship that they rush into one, acting on their feelings of initial attraction. Like Lee said, 2 or 3 dates and a roll in the hay to seal the deal. Unfortunately, weeks/months later when people show who they REALLY are, things quickly go sour and feelings are hurt. It's obvious you know this, and it isn't what you're looking for. So now for some advice from the Jeebus himself.

 

Based on your response, I think you've got a handle on things and know where to go from here. I'd just like to echo EVERYTHING Lee said, because she's right on every count. There really isn't much to go on in only 3 weeks time. Unless there's something glaringly wrong with her that is turning you off, it's just your instincts telling you to take things one step at a time. So build up a trust, be respectful of each other, get to know her, and let her get to know you. You'll want to make sure you're on the same level intellectually, share the same values, and that you share a similar sense of humor. That said, you also don't want to be TOO similar to each other, otherwise you'll basically be dating yourself. ;) In time, you'll know what you need to know and everything will sort itself out. If you really want to be with her, and if she's right for you, you'll know in due time.

 

After learning from my past mistakes and the mistakes of others, I finally figured out what I need in a woman. With my current girlfriend I can honestly say that I'm happy, fulfilled, and truly content for the first time in my life. The ol' pecker is very satisified as well, but beyond that, we respect and trust each other, and enjoy being together. We definitely 'clicked' when we first met, but the strength of our relationship is built on the TRUST developed from taking the time to truly know each other. This is by far my longest relationship, and by no coincidence it's also the most stable, fulfilling and happy one I've ever had. She's wonderful, and I dare say she could even become Mrs. Jeebus. :eek:

 

Take your time, get to know her, and things will become clear. You're either right for each other, or you're not. Time will tell.

 

Good Luck! :wave:

 

Jeebus

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Originally posted by phaeton:

She's mentioned a self-imposed "6-month rule" on sleeping with anyone she dates.

Good for her! :thu:

 

Interestingly, it looks like -I- am going to be the one holding her to it ;)
You know what... that's a good thing. She probably already trusts you, to a certain extent, to hold her to it. That is, maybe she feels she can be more uninhibited around you and trust that it won't lead to something she'll regret. Excellent.

 

As for whether you need to have "the big talk" and how to put it, yeah, that's tough. I don't know that you necessarily have to make a big deal out of it... you can just tell her that you have a lot of past baggage to deal with and it's going to take you some time to sort out, and meanwhile you really want to hang with her and get to know each other better as people. Feeling like you have a safe place from which to work through your crap is really the first step - you can't really work it out alone because it's always easy to say you've got it licked when no one else is in your face about it. :D And of course, you can't really chuck your baggage either if you're with someone you can't really trust - you end up replaying the same shit. Good relationships (including good friendships) are like being able to stand on someone's shoulders and get to the next level. So I would just tell her that's what you want to do with her and that'll take time.

 

It is definately all me. I'm the one with the baggage, or obstacles, and I'm fully aware of that. Problem is, i can't see the forest for the trees- i don't know what the obstacles are for. I don't feel shy or nervous around her. I don't have any feelings of jealousy or abandonment. I'm pretty confident that she's not a gold digger, or a control freak, or a bitch, or anything like that. It's not a fear of commitment, or at least it doesn't seem like it.

I don't think it's a fear of commitment per se, just a fear of involvement, of giving your heart away and leaving it open to getting squashed. It doesn't seem to make logical sense since you feel good about this girl and don't think she'll be like past ones. But really you're making more sense than you give yourself credit for :D , because there's no way you can actually know in a few weeks what your heart wants to know. You have to go through some experiences together, you have to see each other in lights you haven't seen yet, all kinds of things have to happen before you're really satisfied inside that she's worthy of your trust. It's not like you're "testing" her or playing games, that's just the way it is.

 

I dunno.. it's kinda weird. All the symptoms of being turned off by "something", but no idea what that something is.

It's just a combination of fear, and also the knowledge that you don't know her well enough yet to give yourself away. No big deal at all.

 

I intend to be nothing but nice to this girl. Being friends with someone, truly friends first, then a love interest later is the sorts of things i used to fantasize about all the time, when i used to fantasize about those sorts of things.

I think you should tell her that.

 

You know how some ppl say "you can't date someone who is your friend".
I think that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and I've never understood it. I can't think of anybody better to date than a great friend. Sure there are risks - if you have a good friendship it can be scary to think you might screw up the friendship if it turns into something more. But the alternative - the shotgun approach of "dating" people you really don't know, including sleeping with them, and hoping it turns out to be something more than infatuation - seems to me to be the completely insane route. Which I guess is proven out by the high divorce rate. But then again like Botch said, I'm about to turn 41 and have never been married, so no matter what road you take, it seems to suck. :D

 

(to all):

And fwiw, i know what a real stretch it is for someone to try to understand what i'm babbling about, even in light of all of us knowing that these are solely my issues and in the end, i'm the one that has to sort them out.

 

But I really appreciate all of you folks chiming in anyways. Of anything i don't feel so alone with it ;)

I don't have any problem understanding it at all, and I think a lot of folks have been there too - not in exactly the same way of course, but hopefully enough for you to realize that what you're feeling is OK and it sounds like you have the right idea about what it is and what to do about it. And listen to The Jeebus, he can inspire us all. :D
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You know what? Your story sounds a lot like mine, when I fell for my wife.

 

It's a good thing, those voices. Taking it easy & not wanting to ruin it is a good sign. I had to examine a lot of the 'fantasy' stuff I was carrying around - and a lot of it was responsible for getting involved with the wrong people in the past.

 

So just chill, & enjoy it. If you guys are willing to go through all that just to hang together then you have a great friendship started. And you don't have to...but I married my best friend. :wave:

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Damn!

 

Lee has already said everything I was gonna say :mad:;):D

 

I think you two should just get extremely drunk together. That's a good way of finding out if there's any chemistry ;)

"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
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I think you two should just get extremely drunk together. That's a good way of finding out if there's any chemistry

 

I laughed when i read this, but truthfully, that would be extremely counterproductive right now....

 

When i get intoxicated, i am a bad boy....

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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phaeton,

 

If I were you, I wouldn't tell her about your feelings and I wouldn't have "the talk" quite yet. You have only been dating 3 weeks and that is way too short of time to talk about "heavy" things already. There is also a chance you scare her off by having "the talk" already.

 

The beginning of a relationship is all about fun and getting to know each other on a more general level - not for exposing your inner being. And some women like men who are "mysterious" so not telling her everything you are thinking may make you more attractive to her.

 

But take my advice FWIW. I'm 37, single, never married and never had a relationship last more than 9 months. But I look back now and see all the things I've done wrong, so the next relationship I get involved in will be more successful.

 

- Rim

aka riffing

 

Double Post music: Strip Down

 

http://rimspeed.com

http://loadedtheband.com

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Phaeton wrote: "You know how some ppl say "you can't date someone who is your friend'. It's nice to see examples disproving that here and there"

 

~~~~~

 

Friends often make really great dates / life partners, wives, whatever. It's completely insane to count that out. In fact, it's more likely to work then not. When I tell people that we were friends for almost six years before we got together, the most common response is: "Oh, that's the best thing to do" or other phrases saying that being friends first makes for the best relationships. I have no doubt of that.

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Originally posted by Rim.:

The beginning of a relationship is all about fun and getting to know each other on a more general level - not for exposing your inner being. And some women like men who are "mysterious" so not telling her everything you are thinking may make you more attractive to her.

YIPES. If you have to resort to this kind of game playing and play acting to seem attractive to someone, they're not worth it in the first place.

 

I agree in general that when you first meet someone you don't really want to saddle them with all your past burdens and heavy stuff. That's why I suggested not really making a big deal about it at this point. But that doesn't mean you never do anything but have fun and feed fantasies, either. And if the girl is wanting to move faster than phaeton is comfortable with, SOMETHING needs to be said or else that might get in the way of their friendship progressing any further. And if something needs to be said, it might as well be the truth - he feels scared because of past baggage, and he wants to take things slow and be friends first. No big deal. Vagueness and "mysteriousness" only leads to uneasiness and suspicion which does not do anything to build trust.

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Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by Rim.:

The beginning of a relationship is all about fun and getting to know each other on a more general level - not for exposing your inner being. And some women like men who are "mysterious" so not telling her everything you are thinking may make you more attractive to her.

I agree in general that when you first meet someone you don't really want to saddle them with all your past burdens and heavy stuff. That's why I suggested not really making a big deal about it at this point. But that doesn't mean you never do anything but have fun and feed fantasies, either.
I never said only having fun forever, only in the beginning - keep it light. But the beginning for me is more than 3 weeks - more like 6 months. And I give this advice from my own experience. I've always been open in my relationships and yes, the deep sincerity has surfaced early on, and these relationships haven't lasted. Sure, maybe it's because I haven't met the right woman. But what if it's more than that? All I know is, you can be too open too early in a relationship. I don't mean lie, but you don't have to divulge everything either.

 

How is that playing games? Do you wear to a first date what you regularly wear or do you dress up, even a little? Is that playing games? I don't think so. It's putting your best foot forward.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

- Rim

aka riffing

 

Double Post music: Strip Down

 

http://rimspeed.com

http://loadedtheband.com

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Originally posted by Rim.:

How is that playing games? Do you wear to a first date what you regularly wear or do you dress up, even a little? Is that playing games? I don't think so. It's putting your best foot forward.

Rim, the "playing games" part was referring to your statement that "some women like men who are 'mysterious' so not telling her everything you are thinking may make you more attractive to her." I think a lot of people (both men and women) play games that way, doing things to appear more mysterious and out of reach because they think that's what the opposite sex wants. And unfortunately that IS what a lot of people want - which says a lot about those people.

 

I agree like I said that you don't want to turn things into a confessional early on and start dumping all your problems and deepest thoughts on someone. But that's not the same thing as deliberately avoiding discussing something that actually pertains to your relationship, or avoiding saying what you're thinking in order to appear "mysterious."

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Well sheesh...

 

The gist i'm getting is that maybe, just *maybe* i'm more concerned about "not being interested yet" than i should be. In fact, this is a normal and good thing...

 

I feel like it's already been screwed up by letting it get to the "let's make out like silly teenagers" stage already. Maybe not irrepairably screwed up, but still. In my defense, she started it! But i'm the one that went along with it even though i kinda knew better, so i'm just as responsible.

 

That's what I mean by putting the toothpaste back into the tube. I'd like to back up about 4 days and hit the brakes. But once you've gone so far, can you go back?

 

Ugh.. i'm worrying myself sick over this, which makes me harder to think it through.

 

On one hand, i don't want to pull the rug out from under her, but at the same time i'm pretty uncomfortable about a lot of things....

 

Thanks again everyone for letting me spill my guts and whine. My roommates just wouldn't have any capacity to understand any of this if i tried to talk to them...

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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Originally posted by phaeton:

The gist i'm getting is that maybe, just *maybe* i'm more concerned about "not being interested yet" than i should be. In fact, this is a normal and good thing...

Yes! For the most part, I'd say so.

 

I feel like it's already been screwed up by letting it get to the "let's make out like silly teenagers" stage already. Maybe not irrepairably screwed up, but still. In my defense, she started it! But i'm the one that went along with it even though i kinda knew better, so i'm just as responsible.

Hmm... "went along with it," eh? Are you sure you're as "uninterested" as you let on? ;)

 

Really, I wouldn't worry too much about that. If it makes you really uncomfortable, then yeah, you should tell her you'd like to slow down. But like I said, she might be enjoying the fact that she can make out with you in a fun way without feeling she's going to be pressured into going to bed with you. And that's cool! It might be a good thing for you too, to just have fun and be silly.

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