Pub Enemy fans here ?

[d halfnote]

Recently I've been reintroduced to the recordings of PE & have been surprised by the variety of their work, which goes far beyond the Bomb Squad hyper-sampling of their early efforts.

 

Any fans here ?

 

Disregarding political aspects, here're a couple examples of what I find interesting.

The first features the notorious Flavor Flav, not only performing multiple roles in the vid but playing all the musical tracks.

High-larious !

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

This next features a live, not sampled, gtr track from Steve Stills

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

 

What did you think of the 2 tracks above ?

 

 

 

I knew them as a fan from early tracks up through abt Black Planet alb then kinda lost track til I recently read Public Enemy / Inside the Terrordome by Tim Grierson, which does a good job of detailing their history w/ special emphasis on production methods.

 

Catching up on that I started dialing in more recent tracks & was pleasantly surprised that as they'd shifted outta the sample-dense BombSquad techniques (mostly b/c of the expense of licwensing), they'd adopted a more open sound.

 

 

 

Recent listening has also emphasized the musicality of Chuck D's delivery; he's extremely varied in his rhythms, for example.

Also it's redeemed the sometimes erratic Flav, who I never knew actually plays a multitude of instruments.

 

I've also seen that, while their social critique remains stern & real, their sense of humor is often missed by many.

 

The above Flav track [What Kinda Power We Got] epitomizes that but this one does, too, as well as addressing some who don't really know the band's work.

 

 

 

[video:youtube]

[bennyray]

No comment! is better than saying negative comments. Just my 2 cents.

[d halfnote]

Then you're one that might benefit from actually listening to Don't Believe The Hype

[johnchop]

Not exactly knowledgeable about their catalog but dig what I've heard.

[keyman27]

I love the old stuff. That was the soundtrack to high school for me.

[DulceLabs.com]

My hip-hop experience begins and ends with the rapping granny from "The Wedding Singer".

[sMatt]

love 'em

[zephonic]

I loved Public Enemy, they were a big part of my youth. They really changed the sound of Hiphop and -by extension- all contemporary music.

 

They certainly changed the way I hear music, daring me to think outside the box.

And they were just so ff-ing cool! Everybody wanted to be like them.

 

But I kind of lost track of them after Fear of a Black Planet. I guess their era was sort of done after that. It was time for Wu-Tang etc. and PE never caught on.

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

I loved Public Enemy, they were a big part of my youth. They really changed the sound of Hiphop and -by extension- all contemporary music.

 

They certainly changed the way I hear music, daring me to think outside the box.

And they were just so ff-ing cool! Everybody wanted to be like them.

 

But I kind of lost track of them after Fear of a Black Planet. I guess their era was sort of done after that. It was time for Wu-Tang etc. and PE never caught on.

 

 

I could practically have written this post.

 

OP, thanks for posting. This is decidedly NOT a hip-hop board, a fact I've learned the uncomfortable way more than once.

 

Public Enemy gave hip-hop a "narrative," for better or worse. And there's a lot to be said (elsewhere) about the public's willingness to buy Public Enemy's storyline as "true," but the previous "where the party people at/my rhymes mean good times" nonsense as just that; both had the exact same "truth" quotient, but the broader public needed to believe the "rap is black CNN" thing. Thorny topic. And Chuck D's voice is still one of the best in rap, IMO...though his lyrics aren't always the best.

 

I have occasionally tried the "if you are working in the studio in 2017, you owe a debt to rap" angle here, but it hasn't flown. Too much ingrained stuff there--though to be sure, most or all of it is from a place of absolutely no ill-intent.

 

Anyway, thanks again for posting that.

[jimkost2002]

PE were a force of nature, the real deal in EVERY WAY..... we need conscious hip-hop ABOVE THE RADAR more than ever today!

[ABECK]

I loved Fear of a Black Planet. With the heavy use of samples, it was like a harder edge version of Paul's Boutique. Very quickly after that (circa 1990), hip hop went into a direction I couldn't get into. Chuck D had a style that worked for me.

[J. Dan]

I would guess that most of the bad opinions on here have more to do with where hip hop has gone than where it came from, if that makes sense. And to some extent, some of the more negative influences on pop music. Players want to play. PE aside, I think there was a lot of cool stuff going on in early hip hop that unfortunately has gone by the wayside a long time ago.

[Bottom End]

PE aside, I think there was a lot of cool stuff going on in early hip hop that unfortunately has gone by the wayside a long time ago.

I agree, hip hop went from creative sampling and live musicians into derivative gangsta rap. NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" was a groundbreaking record. I enjoyed Ice-T's "Body Count" album, it's some pretty hard rockin' stuff, with a groove.

Other than Dr Dre, I can't think of too many producers of that era who really had something new, too many copy cats with prepackaged beats and loops.

As for hip-hop in the 1990's, the Beastie Boys made some great records during that time. PM Dawn was really good, entire albums of good hip-hop, they knew they weren't gangstas, and just concentrated on making some good music. Digable Planets had jazz samples in "Cantaloop" which was something different.

Of course, somewhere around 1994 there was a pretty big lawsuit over sampling, and that likely did stifle a lot of artists.

Somewhere, on cassette, I have an MTV produced live rap compilation from 1992-1993, several hip-hop artists performing live, a few with musicians, as well as tracks. Very lively music, and performance.

 

[d halfnote]

Not exactly knowledgeable about their catalog but dig what I've heard.

 

Maybe time to dig deeper then, eh ?

 

My hip-hop experience begins and ends with the rapping granny from "The Wedding Singer".

 

What's that, Taylor Swift ? "Haters gonna hate / shake it off !" ?

 

love 'em

 

Tell me what you love.

My intent here's not just fan clubish but a discussion of their musical attributes.

 

I loved Public Enemy, they were a big part of my youth. They really changed the sound of Hiphop and -by extension- all contemporary music.

 

They certainly changed the way I hear music, daring me to think outside the box.

And they were just so ff-ing cool! Everybody wanted to be like them.

 

But I kind of lost track of them after Fear of a Black Planet. I guess their era was sort of done after that. It was time for Wu-Tang etc. and PE never caught on.

 

Dig my OP.

The shifts in hiphop that came after the 1st waves are many & one thing that held PE back commercially was the perception that they were too serious but if ya actually chk some of their stuff, such as the Flavor Flav vid in my OP, they were actually ore wide ranging than ppl think.

Even in their extremely serious stuff they leavened it w/ touches of soft-hearted pathos & sly surrealism.

Take a look at this...

Very serious statement & one that may upset some but dig how they weave multi-levels of comment in there: "here come the drums"; Flav's wierd voodoo mask cat; the spot at abt 1:55+ where Flav kicks up in the air, say's "Kick it, Man" followed by Chuck, "the story of kickin' is gory" + "the other 1/2 swingin' a rope" [Flav = "YIKES !"]; the farm couple so happy abt their child-to-come that Papa's dancing...

 

Even the title / Can't Truss It = [1] Can't tie this up / [2]Can't trust it

 

Back to yer point, though, while hiphop, like all music, changed & changes, PE's later sound got mor open than their earlier productions & also incorpaorated much live in studio playing instead of just sample stacking.

 

[video:youtube]

 

I loved Public Enemy, they were a big part of my youth. They really changed the sound of hiphop and -by extension- all contemporary music.

 

They certainly changed the way I hear music, daring me to think outside the box.

And they were just so ff-ing cool! Everybody wanted to be like them.

 

But I kind of lost track of them after Fear of a Black Planet. I guess their era was sort of done after that. It was time for Wu-Tang etc. and PE never caught on.

 

I could practically have written this post.

 

OP, thanks for posting. This is decidedly NOT a hip-hop board, a fact I've learned the uncomfortable way more than once.

 

Public Enemy gave hip-hop a "narrative," for better or worse. And there's a lot to be said (elsewhere) about the public's willingness to buy Public Enemy's storyline as "true," but the previous "where the party people at/my rhymes mean good times" nonsense as just that; both had the exact same "truth" quotient, but the broader public needed to believe the "rap is black CNN" thing. Thorny topic. And Chuck D's voice is still one of the best in rap, IMO...though his lyrics aren't always the best.

 

I have occasionally tried the "if you are working in the studio in 2017, you owe a debt to rap" angle here, but it hasn't flown. Too much ingrained stuff there--though to be sure, most or all of it is from a place of absolutely no ill-intent.

 

Anyway, thanks again for posting that.

 

I think I know what y'mean in some ways but this is a music discussion board---jazz, claasical, rock, whatever---&, while there are some who just don't like stuff because of preset biases, this isn't the time or place to give in to that.

 

I would guess that most of the bad opinions on here have more to do with where hip hop has gone than where it came from, if that makes sense. And to some extent, some of the more negative influences on pop music. Players want to play. PE aside, I think there was a lot of cool stuff going on in early hip hop that unfortunately has gone by the wayside a long time ago.

 

My point, back to the OP, is that this stuff is still living music & PE continues, whether some have lost their track.

I did for a while but the book I mentioned, detailing their production history, pulled me back in.

Check what's new, not just what was.

 

When somebody asks, "What time it is ?"

Say, "21st C, Ya'll !"

[d halfnote]

BUT THERE'S MORE, as they say...

Chuck D is more than a "message man".

His rhythms are as great a demonstration of Sprechstimme / Sprechgesang as Bob Dylan: both true to the vernacular & time to the music.

Their music both created a truly new thing in pop/rock but then evolved to match the times, even though some lost track of them.

 

 

[zephonic]

Interesting how people hear things differently.

 

I always thought of Chuck D as a great orator with a commanding voice and I dug what he had to say. But as a rapper, I didn't think he was all that funky. That's okay, though, it works for what he does, and that's all that matters.

 

PE was great in their day and their influence on what came after is inestimable. I still love to listen to their best tracks, but for me BDP's minimalistic style holds up better. You can pump that now, and kids will still nod to that.

 

edit:

 

Just for the record: I totally dig the two later tracks you posted. Good to hear they changed it up.

 

[ProfD]

I'm fortunate enough to have been around and down with Hip-Hop since its inception.

 

Like The Last Poets, Jungle Brothers, Native Tongues and Gil Ecott-Heron and Oscar Brown Jr., who planted the seeds that preceded them all, Public Enemy (PE) were necessary when they "bumrushed the show".

 

Hip-Hop has several styles within it. PE was the conscious side of the music. There are many others.

 

Like any genre of music, one has to be willing to dig in order to truly understand it. Painting with a broad brush will miss a lot of fine details.

 

As it relates to this forum, I hang out here as a KB player/ musician. I never expected it to embrace hip-Hop. But, I appreciate the efforts of those who do in giving it props.

[MathOfInsects]

 

Maybe time to dig deeper then, eh ?

 

What's that, Taylor Swift ? "Haters gonna hate / shake it off !" ?

 

 

Tell me what you love.

My intent here's not just fan clubish but a discussion of their musical attributes.

 

 

Dig my OP.

The shifts in hiphop that came after the 1st waves are many & one thing that held PE back commercially was the perception that they were too serious but if ya actually chk some of their stuff, such as the Flavor Flav vid in my OP, they were actually ore wide ranging than ppl think.

Even in their extremely serious stuff they leavened it w/ touches of soft-hearted pathos & sly surrealism.

Take a look at this...

Very serious statement & one that may upset some but dig how they weave multi-levels of comment in there: "here come the drums"; Flav's wierd voodoo mask cat; the spot at abt 1:55+ where Flav kicks up in the air, say's "Kick it, Man" followed by Chuck, "the story of kickin' is gory" + "the other 1/2 swingin' a rope" [Flav = "YIKES !"]; the farm couple so happy abt their child-to-come that Papa's dancing...

 

Even the title / Can't Truss It = [1] Can't tie this up / [2]Can't trust it

 

Back to yer point, though, while hiphop, like all music, changed & changes, PE's later sound got mor open than their earlier productions & also incorpaorated much live in studio playing instead of just sample stacking.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

I think I know what y'mean in some ways but this is a music discussion board---jazz, claasical, rock, whatever---&, while there are some who just don't like stuff because of preset biases, this isn't the time or place to give in to that.

 

 

My point, back to the OP, is that this stuff is still living music & PE continues, whether some have lost their track.

I did for a while but the book I mentioned, detailing their production history, pulled me back in.

Check what's new, not just what was.

 

When somebody asks, "What time it is ?"

Say, "21st C, Ya'll !"

 

If it's conversation you are looking for, I don't think preaching is the way to find it. Plenty of people who dislike hip-hop, dislike it in its own right, not because they lack discernment, exposure, perspective, or consideration. Plenty of far better musicians and music-listeners than you or I, just don't like what they hear when they hear hip-hop.

 

Personally, I think it's more constructive to engage on the level of mutual curiosity, than to swoop in colonizer-style and try to bring the Good News of Hip Hop down upon the heads of the poor unenlightened prog-worshipping natives.

[cphollis]

Man, this is what I love about this forum. We're all keyboard dudes, but we're getting deep into historical rap. All good.

[elsongs]

OP, thanks for posting. This is decidedly NOT a hip-hop board, a fact I've learned the uncomfortable way more than once.

 

Yeah, this is a strictly a Prog Rock board, and apparently if you love any non Prog Rock music, you'll get laughed at...

 

[elsongs]

I loved Fear of a Black Planet. With the heavy use of samples, it was like a harder edge version of Paul's Boutique. Very quickly after that (circa 1990), hip hop went into a direction I couldn't get into. Chuck D had a style that worked for me.

 

Ditto. I can't seem to get into more recent PE though. Although Chuck D is a way underrated MC. I just can't STAND how today's "rappers" lack rhythm or rhyme (other than rhyming with the same word over again), and sounding like they're lazy or lethargic or something.

[RudyS]

OP, thanks for posting. This is decidedly NOT a hip-hop board, a fact I've learned the uncomfortable way more than once.

 

Yeah, this is a strictly a Prog Rock board, and apparently if you love any non Prog Rock music, you'll get laughed at...

 

I actually never experienced the board this way. I always find this board very open to whatever style.

[Outkaster]

Not really. It's mostly rock, jazz and some classical.. I think it's just because that is what 80% of the people that play keyboards play.

[ProfD]

I just can't STAND how today's "rappers" lack rhythm or rhyme (other than rhyming with the same word over again), and sounding like they're lazy or lethargic or something.

I saw the handwriting on the wall when Mike Jones' "Back Then" became a hit.

 

Seriously, as someone who has listened to Hip-Hop for over 30 years now, even I cringe upon hearing mainstream Hip-Hop songs. Most of it is straight garbage.

 

But, in every decade, that happens to every style of music. The (Pop)ular music is usually some watered down, assembly line produced version of the real thing. One has to dig a little deeper than radio to find substance.

 

I think satellite radio is great to that extent that it provides listeners with a wider variety of stations. Still, they end up playing the same songs within that particular format.

 

Maybe I should come up with a radio station that plays obscure deep cuts from every genre and style of music.

 

Listeners would never hear the same song twice unless they request it.

[d halfnote]

Interesting how people hear things differently.

 

I always thought of Chuck D as a great orator with a commanding voice and I dug what he had to say. But as a rapper, I didn't think he was all that funky.

 

Fair enough but what define's a funky rapper to you ?

One of the best things abt D's style is that he avoids the heavily repetititive beat emphasis in his vox (after all, the rest of the track's doing that) & is much more varied, even conversational, in his delivery.

Could that be why you don't hear him as funky ?

 

OK, if so---b/c this isn't abt convincing someone to think differently but discussing the musical effectss in the music.

[d halfnote]

 

Maybe time to dig deeper then, eh ?

 

What's that, Taylor Swift ? "Haters gonna hate / shake it off !" ?

 

 

Tell me what you love.

My intent here's not just fan clubish but a discussion of their musical attributes.

 

 

Dig my OP.

The shifts in hiphop that came after the 1st waves are many & one thing that held PE back commercially was the perception that they were too serious but if ya actually chk some of their stuff, such as the Flavor Flav vid in my OP, they were actually ore wide ranging than ppl think.

Even in their extremely serious stuff they leavened it w/ touches of soft-hearted pathos & sly surrealism.

Take a look at this...

Very serious statement & one that may upset some but dig how they weave multi-levels of comment in there: "here come the drums"; Flav's wierd voodoo mask cat; the spot at abt 1:55+ where Flav kicks up in the air, say's "Kick it, Man" followed by Chuck, "the story of kickin' is gory" + "the other 1/2 swingin' a rope" [Flav = "YIKES !"]; the farm couple so happy abt their child-to-come that Papa's dancing...

 

Even the title / Can't Truss It = [1] Can't tie this up / [2]Can't trust it

 

Back to yer point, though, while hiphop, like all music, changed & changes, PE's later sound got mor open than their earlier productions & also incorpaorated much live in studio playing instead of just sample stacking.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

I think I know what y'mean in some ways but this is a music discussion board---jazz, claasical, rock, whatever---&, while there are some who just don't like stuff because of preset biases, this isn't the time or place to give in to that.

 

 

My point, back to the OP, is that this stuff is still living music & PE continues, whether some have lost their track.

I did for a while but the book I mentioned, detailing their production history, pulled me back in.

Check what's new, not just what was.

 

When somebody asks, "What time it is ?"

Say, "21st C, Ya'll !"

 

If it's conversation you are looking for, I don't think preaching is the way to find it. Plenty of people who dislike hip-hop, dislike it in its own right, not because they lack discernment, exposure, perspective, or consideration. Plenty of far better musicians and music-listeners than you or I, just don't like what they hear when they hear hip-hop.

 

Personally, I think it's more constructive to engage on the level of mutual curiosity, than to swoop in colonizer-style and try to bring the Good News of Hip Hop down upon the heads of the poor unenlightened prog-worshipping natives.

 

I would respect you comments more if they were as open-minded & perceptive as yuo think they are.

I'll get back to that in a moment.

 

If you look at what I've posted I'm bringing this up as a discussion of the musical effects of PE's tracks & productions.

While it's true that some may simply not like hip-hop, it's also true that, for many that's based on a general lack of awareness of what's actually going on in the music.

 

Back to that earlier point, the way that you cite "far better musicians" as not liking the form ignores the fact that many "far better musicans" [which by the way is a distinction, neither of us can really make abt the other] like it very much.

 

As to me "swooping in colonizer style...to enlighten"...that's simply wrong.

Not only is it a mischaracterization of my statements but ignores the fact that I've been a member of these forums for 2 decades.

 

Length of participation doesn't validate an opinion but I think it puts me outta range of "swooping in".

 

Come back when y' got something to say abt the music.

 

 

 

 

[d halfnote]

I just can't STAND how today's "rappers" lack rhythm or rhyme (other than rhyming with the same word over again), and sounding like they're lazy or lethargic or something.

I saw the handwriting on the wall when Mike Jones' "Back Then" became a hit.

 

Seriously, as someone who has listened to Hip-Hop for over 30 years now, even I cringe upon hearing mainstream Hip-Hop songs. Most of it is straight garbage.

 

But, in every decade, that happens to every style of music. The (Pop)ular music is usually some watered down, assembly line produced version of the real thing. One has to dig a little deeper ....

 

What you say's a truism abt most music styles or forms.

 

One thing I wanted to do here is elicit discussion of what makes some work more distinctive, "better" than other, superficially similar, work.

[MathOfInsects]

I would respect you comments more if they were as open-minded & perceptive as yuo think they are.

I'll get back to that in a moment.

 

If you look at what I've posted I'm bringing this up as a discussion of the musical effects of PE's tracks & productions.

While it's true that some may simply not like hip-hop, it's also true that, for many that's based on a general lack of awareness of what's actually going on in the music.

 

Back to that earlier point, the way that you cite "far better musicians" as not liking the form ignores the fact that many "far better musicans" [which by the way is a distinction, neither of us can really make abt the other] like it very much.

 

As to me "swooping in colonizer style...to enlighten"...that's simply wrong.

Not only is it a mischaracterization of my statements but ignores the fact that I've been a member of these forums for 2 decades.

 

Length of participation doesn't validate an opinion but I think it puts me outta range of "swooping in".

 

Come back when y' got something to say abt the music.

 

 

It appears I hit a nerve.

 

The advice is free, and stands. Do with it what you like.

[d halfnote]

Na, you didn't hit a nerve, you just took a pot shot that alerted me to yer prescence as one of the sort who criticizes from a passive aggressive stance.

 

I note, as others might, that you dodn't respond to anything I said, just prtended to an attitude of superiority, newbie !

Again, come back when y' got something relevant to the music rather than just yer attitude; otherwise yer just lowering the standard of commentary.

 

[RudyS]

Not really. It's mostly rock, jazz and some classical.. I think it's just because that is what 80% of the people that play keyboards play.

 

True. But I never got the feeling people got laughed at for liking other styles. Just my perception of course!