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Fleetwood Mac ! How low can you go?


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Last night I viewed not only a LOW point in Pop culture, but a VERY LOW point one of R&R's most historical and influential bands.

 

The Show: "Fleetwood Mac Destiny Rules" on VH1

 

I had always just assumed that with this IMMENSE amount of Talent, creativity, and song writing strength that they are above the childish BS. Boy was I wrong!

 

From an recording engineering POV I stayed glued to the TV. But I was distracted by the band and their vast insecurities. This group of 4 (less Christie McVie) bitched and quibbled like the first band I was ever in....and we were all 16 years old at the time.

 

Lindsey was clearly committed to this project, giving it 100%. But he is an odd bird. The whole special his Mantra is "Double CD, Double CD". He goes to blows for the Double disk over and over....when the show is done, HE is the one that pulls the plug at the 11th hour and makes it a single cd. And look at the Faces he makes during playback. I thought he was having a mild seizure.

 

Then there is watching Lindsey and Stevie debate lyrical content. Lindsey points out a grammatical issue of Stevie's lyrics. Stevie then gets on the defensive and says something like "Well bob Dylan wouldn't do blah blah blah". I was flabbergasted. To me Fleetwood Mac has earned their place in songwriting history. They are up there with the legends, yet they argue over 1st and second person POV and then SOLIDIFY the argument by referring to Bob Dylan.

Clearly the 4 of the Mac Pac have forgotten who they are.

 

Then there was the MIX.

Lindsey had his guy and Stevie had hers. Lindsey got his way, then Stevie wanted Chris Lord-Alge to mix several songs. So what does Lindsey do, disagree over the "Principal" of the matter. So her manager was calling his manager to debate it, mean while Stevie and Lindsey are yelling at each other, then there was Stevies Manager/Friend/Witchdoctor person there who freakily enough felt obligated to step in.....who the F*** did she think she was? This was between folk in the band.

 

It was a long and informative special, showing ALL the behind the scenes stuff you could want to see, and some that should have stayed on the editing room floor.

 

The sad bit was watching John McVie trying to put together a cohesive sentence. This guy has pickled his brain from years of alcohol and who knows what else. Note to band: Keep all Interviewing personnel AWAY from John!

 

Oh, the Egos, did I mention the egos? I am surprised Stevie could even fit in the door.

Mick, well, he showed his colors. He is easily persuaded by the sultry voices of the A&R/Record Company Man. Watching him bounce back and forth on the issue of the Double disc was like watching a ship being tossed about in a rocky storm.

 

I want to go back to the old days! The ones where all you had was album covers, an occasional appearance on a TV show, Magazine interviews and the live concerts. The less we know about our rock legends, the cooler music is.

 

AND one last note, watching Stevie try and EXPLAIN Fleetwood's target audience by age group, now that was a gas. She was trying to justify a single CD versus a Double CD, by explaining the old farts that grew up with them are busy raising families and working jobs, so they don't have the cash or time for a double disc. BUT the 13-25 year old audience does. Ummm OK? Has she heard the music? Its written for old farts! Its contemporary pop in its safest form. The audience she embraces is the very audience that will steal her blind on Kazza. The old farts are the ones that GREW UP buying her stuff. She is way out of touch with the real world.

 

No wonder Christie McVie stayed at home. She is the smartest one in the band.

 

Dennis

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Fleetwood Mac was always like that.

 

What you saw was the creative process at work, and then married to the business process.

 

A low point? Nope - just four people doing what they do. Our insecurities don't vanish just because we've become rich writing about those insecurities. Money, fame, and power have been noted throughout history for their ability to amplify those insecurities. Given Fleetwood Mac's history, it's a wonder they can function as a band at all.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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You know, maybe it's a good thing the unedited truth is televised. It sure shows a lot of us that maybe the grass is not greener on the other side of fame and fortune. While I kind of feel sorry for them in a way. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes.

 

How terrible must it be to have all of that talent, wealth, & fame, and yet still be miserable to each other? I think it's not worth it. I'd rather stay unknown and make great music with people I like and get along with.

 

Hey, Fleetwood Mac, living in fear is no way to live. Can't you see that you are pathetic?

 

"Hey look! The emperor's naked!"

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hehehe I didn't see it but from the brief description here souunds like an older and of course legendary version of the infamous 'Bitchslap' sessions. :D

 

Sometimes music is 10% talent and 90% ego.

By nature egos don't mix at eye level but do at ear level.

William F. Turner

Songwriter

turnersongs

 

Sometimes the truth is rude...

tough shit... get used to it.

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Musically yes, i will agree that Fleetwood Mac has earned their place among Legends...

 

But the way that it was always explained to me by my parents, was that Fleetwood Mac throughout the 1970s was like a Rock'n'Roll Soap Opera. The Drama added to their appeal for many of their fans.

 

The Fleetwood Mac that holds a special place in *my* heart, is the Fleetwood Mac that Peter Green put together. When he went insane and left the band, Fleetwood Mac became a different entity, IMHO.

 

Doesn't mean they are a lesser band, just a different band.

 

Of course, mind you, that I wasn't even born yet when Then Play On was released, and my ability to comprehend complex interpersonal relationships of such had not been developed until well, probably the late 80s, so my statements are based on listening to the difference in the `feel' of the albums, and information that I've dug up *after* the fact. I could be completely off base.

 

Fwiw, in interviews and candid t.v. spots, i have seen other bands act like this too... maybe not to this extreme, but yes. I mean, look at Lars Ulrich from Metallica. What a whiny lil bish.... And i used to idolize those guis like you'd never know...

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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There was a long article in Mojo about the Tusk album & tour, they made million after million but spent way too much on both recording and very extravagant tour stupidities so in the end they made no money at all. :freak:

 

Too bad, they have done some really good music.

 

/Mats

http://www.lexam.net/peter/carnut/man.gif

What do we want? Procrastination!

When do we want it? Later!

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I've never really been one to watch the "road to success" stories or the "fall from fame" stories; I'm strictly into it for the music... which is where it's at.

 

In reading the comments above, it made me think about the last Presidential Election debates.... Bush and Gore sounded like a couple of grade schoolers squabbling over who would get to be the bathroom monitor. :freak: ...and these men were set before us as LEADERS????

 

Ummmmmm..... Let Fleetwood Mac have their day to say and look forward to a fun packed year of Debates after it's narrowed down to final runners for each party. Fleetwood Mac could not have been nearly as ambiguous as what Bush and Gore was.

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Most of us didn't like it, but it was about as real as it gets. It is truly surprising that ANY band actually makes it through an album these days. Having to be an "artist" and "business minded" are almost mutually exclusive. I too had heard all the stories but a few things surprised me.

 

1. Lindsay is a very creative person with no business concepts. I had thought he was the more buisness oriented.

 

2. Stevie is a songwriter, and a true free spirit, but at least attempts to have a realistic approach.

 

3. Mic is a musical politician. He is a businessman outside of Fleetwood Mac, but I think his goal is to try and keep the peace. He seems to understand the dynamic that creates their music.

 

4. John... is a bassman.

 

5. Christie... the smart one, or at least sane one.

Desdinova

"...I am the one you warned me of."

 

www.BaronAudio.com

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Originally posted by Dennis:

This group of 4 (less Christie McVie) bitched and quibbled like the first band I was ever in....and we were all 16 years old at the time.

You DO realize that when these people weren't sleeping with each other, they were usually fighting... It's been an on going thing. That's why there music is so good. They have plenty of turmoil and conflict to draw from.

 

Same with The Police; those guys fought all the time. And they were arguably better than any of them has been solo.

 

Fighting isn't the only key, though. I think you have initially love the people you are fighting with. That's the glue that holds it together. You love each other so much that you want to make it work, but you fight alot, which helps you make better music, because of that 'inner-angst' thang.

It sucks in a marriage. But in a band it's pure gold! :cool:

 

I haven't seen the show. I'll have to check it out.

I flipped VH-1 on yesterday, and they were doing "The Top 100 Hottest Hotties". I'm like; What the fffffffffff :freak::confused::freak::confused: !?!?!? Changed the channel.

 

I don't really give a damn what Mo Rocca thinks about J-Lo's butt.

Super 8

 

Hear my stuff here

 

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I think they still do love each other. I don't usually care about the sugary-sweet moments... but it struck me that in the final scene, as the band made its way to the stage, Buckingham & Nicks were holding hands and leaning on each other.

 

Originally posted by Super 8:

I think you have initially love the people you are fighting with. That's the glue that holds it together.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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Who cares if they love each other.

 

It's as uncomfortable as watching my parents bicker. Stevie's shaman - err - shawoman was just a pain to see - she's just a delicate twit that she needs a mouthpiece, Lindsey's a flake who seems to be too afraid to hurt feelings that he's constantly dancing around comments instead of just flat out saying what he thinks.

 

Like I said. My parents love each other a ton, but lord it's painful watching them sometimes.

 

So, yeah, I was glued to the tube, watching the morons debate over who should mix the stupid songs, when I couldn't help but wonder what would they do if they both stepped up and dropped all the perfect manners and talked about the stuff honestly.

 

I spose, the last time they did that, Lindsey freaked out and started his own band.

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I was on the edge of my seat to see clips of Chris Lord Alge mixing some stuff. Just to get a glimpse into his mix room.

 

Damn that Lindsey!

 

I have seen many band fights, its kinda part and parcal when your in the studio business. I guess i had just higher expectations for a Monster act like Fleetwood Mac.

 

At the very least i expected thier fights to be classier and to have WAY more substance. I was wrong about that!

 

Dennis

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I liked it. Its good to see that theyre human too - just like us.

 

I found it interesting that there wasnt any acoustic treatment around - they just set-up in the living room - drums and all! ...and went for it.

 

Now... can somebody please tell me the vocal mic they were using?

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"No wonder Christie McVie stayed at home. She is the smartest one in the band."

 

That might be Peter Green...

 

Well not currently in, of course. I didn't hate the Bob Welch FM.... and I have a lot of respect for Lindsey's quirky musical intelligence. But after Buckingham and Nicks joined I could never warm up to the band.

 

Ah, but the Peter Green era. That was something.

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Several years ago my cousin asked if I liked Fleetwood Mac. I think I only heard one song but I don't remember which one.

 

Eventually I did come to like them, and I still need to get myself a CD or 2 (whichever had "The Chain" and "Gold Dust Woman" and um... other-singles-from-them... oh yeah, greatest hits maybe?")

 

Yeah, it'll sit nicely next to my Nine Inch Nails collection :D

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Ah, but the Peter Green era. That was something.

 

Foh Scheezi...

 

He's actually starting to resurface again, Mr. Green. Too bad things went the way they did. That man was a GOD on the guitar.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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I rather enjoyed it because of all the things you mentioned, Dennis, and amen, Coyote, they are indeed four people doing what they do. I got a kick out of Stevie's "Don't change it because it's beautiful"...ah well, Lindsay's anal and rather a spoiled brat, and Stevie's a primadonna, Mick is the wise sage and elder statesman and John, well, he'd rather be fishing. I got a kick out of McVie bemoaning the 100s of playbacks he endured.

 

High point in the show? For me, it was watching the "Mysterious Beautiful White Witch" falling over herself laughing about the dumb "Billy Bass" singing "Take Me To The River". Nah, seriously, stuff like that is an insight into the creative process, and lets you know just how similar we all really are. And it really does say that the band is not "Fleetwood Mac" but "Buckingham Nicks"...just the way it was years ago before they ever met Mick and John.

 

And Stevie is still absolutely beautiful.

 

As for the Dylan thing...hey, they grew up on Dylan. Probably dang near everyone who's ever written lyrics has asked the question WWBD? (What would Bob Do?).

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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Originally posted by Phait:

Several years ago my cousin asked if I liked Fleetwood Mac. I think I only heard one song but I don't remember which one.

 

Eventually I did come to like them, and I still need to get myself a CD or 2 (whichever had "The Chain" and "Gold Dust Woman" and um... other-singles-from-them... oh yeah, greatest hits maybe?")

 

Yeah, it'll sit nicely next to my Nine Inch Nails collection :D

Phait,

 

Off the top of my head, I believe those were "both" off of Stevie Nicks solo album called "Belledonna"

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Nope. Both off 'Rumors' - I used to play bass in a F-Mac cover band and I was forced to know such stuff by our singer, who thought she was Stevie Nicks. :D

 

Originally posted by Ani:

Originally posted by Phait:

Several years ago my cousin asked if I liked Fleetwood Mac. I think I only heard one song but I don't remember which one.

Eventually I did come to like them, and I still need to get myself a CD or 2 (whichever had "The Chain" and "Gold Dust Woman" and um... other-singles-from-them... oh yeah, greatest hits maybe?")

Yeah, it'll sit nicely next to my Nine Inch Nails collection :D

Phait,

 

Off the top of my head, I believe those were "both" off of Stevie Nicks solo album called "Belledonna"

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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Okay, now that you mention Rumours, it rings a bell. Rumours and Belledonna are the only two albums that I really had any exposure to from the Nicks era.... I did, however, buy the one that had "Over My Head" and "Reannane" on it but I don't recall the title of the album. After their split, I moved on to other things. Heart came in and plugged the hole. I think it was also about that time when the Eagles landed their big score with me with "One of These Nights" and "Witchy Woman"
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