Ok, here's a rant about: people with no idea

[Phait]

So I'm browsing the FutureProducer.com forums (after seeing its mostly hip-hop I realise I don't really belong there anymore), and I come across this image:

 

http://www.soundclick.com/images/beatsbydarkblue.gif

 

I'm laughing at it. I'm laughing yet pissed off because I see shit like this ALL THE TIME - people that think they are producers, just cause they can make a beat - or maybe they do a little more, but still really, truly - do NOT know what a producer's job is. And then they top it all off with like "yeah this is gonna be phat yo, dig my product-shunz biz, yo!" and slap a silly name on before the word "productions".

 

Hey, it's cool if you wanna be a producer, go ahead but fucking learn about the job and don't off-the-bat assume you ARE a producer. I just want to bitchslap these naive people, or at least shove this same rant in their face.

 

And yeah, maybe I'm being naive myself - maybe SOME of these people really know what production is, and just have a shitty graphic which looks like it was done by a wannabe in PaintShopPro... but that is most likely not the case.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRHHHGGGGGGGGGGHUGH$TT#)$&$&%@&@$HGH!

[Programchick]

I know exactly what you mean, people like that really annoy me too!

 

http://www.phait-accompli.com/crap/3.jpg

[Phait]

Cute, oh it's me. Yeah.

 

See, that has nothing to do with this.

[Programchick]

You can NOT talk about this without admitting your own lameness

[Phait]

And I am lame how? There's a pic of me, you know. People have pics of themselves because others sometimes are curious just who this person is. You got adventurous for some reason and browsed a directory or 2.

 

Your point is completely invalid. I am not claiming to be something I'm not.

 

So I would take it you are offended by my post somehow.

[Tedster]

Hmmmm...

[Dasher]

ey, ANYBODY can call him/herself a producer. Can they produce? That is the question. I have a friend whose backer (a building developer without a clue to the music business, but a desparate wannabe) bought a Fantom and a Triton 88note board for his 25-year-old son, who fully believes he is going to slap together some loops from the internal libraries and create megabuck hit records!

 

He's a producer too!

 

Don't worry about 'em, Phait - make your music and let the fools fall where they may. It's peop;e ;ke that who make the good equipment affordable, by spending their drug profits on gear they never learn to use...

 

Dasher

[Phait]

"It's peop;e ;ke that who make the good equipment affordable, by spending their drug profits on gear they never learn to use..."

 

Drug profits might be pushing it (but sometimes maybe not), lol.

 

Everyone has their own definition of producer but professional producers or at least people with a good understanding of the job are kind of insulted by that naivety, I would think.

 

Just cause someone can change their oil doesn't make them a mechanic.

[Rog]

So what does a producer do?

 

Seems to me they take all the credit for the work of talented AEs

[Dasher]

Music is a constant learning process - I've been playing music for 57 years and still learn something practically every day. The same goes for engineering, production, mixing/mastering, adn 'the biz.' I learn more as I do more, but we all have to start out somewhere. Ignorance is a bitch, but in the biz, attitude counts as much as talent in the hip-hop world-or so it seems. I liked hip-hop when it was positioned as an alternative swing or dance format that grooved mightily, but the gangsta assholes changed that - much rap is now the politics of hate, racism and sexism, and goes completely against the grain of the purpose of music - to uplift and give pleasure. But it's so easy to string together a bunch of sample licks from real musicians that the ignorant and arrogant can say, "Yo, mofo, I'm a producer, too!" (And believe it...)

 

You don't know the difference till you know the difference.

 

Sure it can piss you off. But that's your decision, and gives them the power. Why let it - laugh instead: you know better, and maybe someday they'll know why you're laughing.

 

And they'll never be a contender, unless Garageband becomes the next ProTools...

 

Dasher

[Super 8]

I don't know what you could call these people if you didn't called them "Producers". I mean, that's kind of what they do isn't? They don't actually create the music, they cut and paste it. Correct?

 

Plus people like Pee Diddley are so notorious in the business. Ya know? He's always making sure he's prominently featured in the videos of the artists he produces. He makes vast sums of money -which really means NOTHING-, but he spends big and has huge parties, and screws all the hipest babes. People envy that. So, all of a sudden; "Hey, I'm a Producer too!".

 

If I were a Producer, I would consider myself more of a 'Creative Consultant'. Somebody who can see things objectively and look at the big picture, while the artist focuses on the little stuff. To me, that's production....helping the artist turn their songs into one coherent body of work -an album.

 

I think in Hip Hop, it maybe becomes more about knowing what sounds good, being able to network REALLY well, and having a ton of ambition. I think that Pee Diddly fits that description quite well.

Hell, he even started out as an A&R guy, didn't he?

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Tedster:

Hmmmm...

That's the kind of "Hmmmm..." Tedster says when he's thinking.

 

Whatcha think'n Tedster?

[TeleCarlos]

Hmmmm too....

 

Is this some sort of daytime drama unfolding?

 

BTW, I'm a producer. I produce crappy music made by myself!!!!

No one would pay me .02 cents for my duties.

[MixterRader]

I have a bank account. I'm a banker!!

[deanmass]

A producer assembles resources into something profitable.

[boosh]

The final track listing for the album is as follows. I have not yet begun work on the songs themselves.

 

01. inebriate

02. love synthesis

03. twine

04. the science of trust

05. dissonant symbiosis

06. meeting poe

07. want, need

08. pieces

09. infinaivety

10. remembering tomorrow

11. the long fall

12. ed

13. stripped

 

Man your really made me piss my pants with your dozens of pages about yourself on your website,...

 

You mean you produced a terrific CD, everything is finished except the songs which you haven't even started to write?

 

Before you talk about other people who are not PRODUCERS in your eyes, take a look at yourself.

 

Leave each their own man and just do your thing.

 

Love the Design of the site by the way and

 

"you promised summer, gave winter"

 

Is a very cool track.

[Griffinator]

Guys - you gotta understand...

 

In the electronica field, there are two types of "musicians" - the DJ, who mixes on turntables in a live setting to create their music - and "Producers" - who create their material with samplers, keyboards, and loops.

 

Even in that field, however, the pretenders are ridden out on a rail, where the serious people who are creating their own sound and getting people grooving to it are respected.

[theblue1]

I like the graphic. (But then take a gander at the scribble I use for an avatar. )

 

What's really lame about it is that he doesn't have a website -- just an email address. Now that's bad. And I don't mean good.

 

But, yeah, I get fatigued over at FutureProducers sometimes... part of the problem is that people use FL or ACID or punch up some presets in Reason and all of a sudden think they know the book. Then they run into a question from the 97% of recording/music production field that they don't understand and they don't even have the slightest clue how very little they know...

 

At that point I have to remind myself that the site is called FutureProducers.com for a reason.

 

[skipclone 1]

Quotes by Jim Dickinson (Nashville)

 

Q: "So why did you stop being a session musician and go into producing?"

 

A: "More money."

 

Q: "As a producer, what is your job?"

 

A: "Turn the good parts up, turn the bad parts down."

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by theblue1:

I like the graphic. (But then take a gander at the scribble I use for an avatar. )

 

What's really lame about it is that he doesn't have a website -- just an email address. Now that's bad. And I don't mean good.

 

But, yeah, I get fatigued over at FutureProducers sometimes... part of the problem is that people use FL or ACID...

I use Fruityloops for my personal work. Hell, I cut my DAW "teeth" on Fruityloops and Anvil Studio. So?

[theblue1]

No, no, nothing wrong! It's all good. No. Really.

 

FL is like any other tool -- you get out what you put in. I doubt there's anyone around who reallly gets everything he can out of his primary working environment.

[Phait]

"Man your really made me piss my pants with your dozens of pages about yourself on your website,...

You mean you produced a terrific CD, everything is finished except the songs which you haven't even started to write? Before you talk about other people who are not PRODUCERS in your eyes, take a look at yourself."

 

I have not produced a CD.

 

I do not consider myself a producer.

 

Nothing is finished, I just wanted to get the track titles done so I have something to work by. Maybe it's backwards, but this is how I'm doing my thing.

 

No where on my sites do I claim to be something I am not. I don't even think my music is all that, but it's there, and I know I can do better.

 

"dozens of pages about yourself on your website"

 

My personal site is pretty informative, I know. And I have noticed it does have alot about me, and I have always considered condensing it. But from time to time I'm asked questions and I hate answering things over and over, so thats why my personal site is so informative.

 

I don't see dozens of pages about myself anyway, just a few.

 

What's your point?

[halljams]

Originally posted by deanmass:

A producer assembles resources into something profitable.

I'm good at that.

[aliengroover]

Yes, everybody wants to be a producer nowadays, and most don't have a clue. The majority of them do think it's just about throwing together a "beat". Even more still diss people like Dr. Dre and Poofy because they don't actually "make" the tracks. The person who really wants to be a producer, or even just a beatmaker, will spend the time to learn what they need to, however they need to learn it. I used to be annoyed by them, but I remember one day I didn't know much, so now I've established mentor-type relationships with some of them. Also, most don't use profits from drugs to buy their gear, nor do most get it from their parents, though some do.

 

Although in "electronic" based musics, the programmer is often considered the producer, he/she is not. So who is the producer in that regard? I think it is found in the finished product. There is a difference between a "produced" piece, and a non-"produced" piece. This extends to people like Prince and to other artists that play everything themselves. Just because they made the track, doesn't make them the producer. It's what's found in the details that earns them that designation to a large degree.

Peace

[Jim Novak]

But I thought horror rap flopped?

 

It's not politically correct to not respect talentless hacks. Sure, maybe they just press presets, and yeah, maybe they can't tell if what they're doing is in key or not, but *they're trying*! That's all that counts, right? Music shouldn't be just for those who can, but those who want to! You're discriminating against mediocrity. How dare you!

[Phait]

Who's discriminating? I'm not, just annoyed and upset that some people don't know what it truly means to be what they claim to be. We all were new to something at some point, hell I'm still new to alot of things!

[Bill Heins]

There's producers and there's Producers

 

First great Producers that come to mind are George Martin, Robin Black, Michael Wagener to name a couple but my absolut favorites go by the names Emerson,Lake, and Palmer, Aerosmith, Tangerine Dream, Bach, Tannahill Weavers,etc....now that's music production!!!

 

Darkon the Incandescent

[boosh]

Originally posted by boosh:

Before you talk about other people who are not PRODUCERS in your eyes, take a look at yourself.

 

Leave each their own man and just do your thing.

 

That is my point.

 

I never said you consider yourself a producer.

 

First you attack others ,then you go defending yourself.

 

Maybe it's better to adress Dj Dark Blue himself instead of going behind his back.

 

If you don't want that then leave it at rest and just do what you like to do. It's not right to attack people on their musical or creative skills. Not everyone has the same talents.

 

It is very easy to see another man's shortcomings.

 

We have a saying for that in dutch which translated is kinda like this:

 

It's easier to see a chip of wood in another man's eye. To see the treetrunk in your own eyes is much more difficult.

 

Dangit my english translation skills stink haha.

 

Is it allright to keep your mp3s on my drive by the way? Our 6 weeks old son seems to like them a lot when he goes to sleep.( not dissing you here) He really likes the mellow sounds.

 

By the way,... the phrase , dozens of pages was more meant like,...: I went to town today and there were millions of people......

[Phait]

"First you attack others ,then you go defending yourself."

 

I think my opinion on the matter carries weight. Look at those that agree with me.

 

"Maybe it's better to adress Dj Dark Blue himself instead of going behind his back."

 

Yea probably, but I was upset and needed to vent.

 

"It's not right to attack people on their musical or creative skills. Not everyone has the same talents."

 

These people might be good or bad at what they do. I don't care. My point was naive people who think they fit the mold of an entirely different kind of people just do not understand ... why am I reiterating this?

[DallasPA]

Greetings,

 

Much of the Hip Hop music done today isn't sample based at all. Over time it has gotten more and more difficult to get the clearences and when you do the cost outweighs the benifit in most cases.

 

I would say that 40% of the rap/hip hop/R&B is currently being done by former gospel churh musicians: Rodney Jerkins, Mario Winans and the list goes on. These cats are very much musicians by anyones context.

 

Rap has gotten very minimalistic in recent years very few people still use samples; they may bring a band in and sample the band licks, but whole loops from records are rare. And almost none of this new material even has a bass line, just rhythem and melody. Actually alot of it is quite interesting from a sonic stand point.

 

Myself I often start with a loop for a general overall feel, but as the track progresses the loop generally gets dropped, but the track maintains that same feel!!!!

 

Dallas