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OT-Ish .. AI in the design of music.


Tusker

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Most of us are here because we love the process of making music. Some time back, we had a discussion of Hit Song Science which appears to still be a thing, although the (retail) web site is no longer there. The focus of HSS was in analyzing entire songs to decide which ones to promote. This morning I was stunned to watch a movie trailer that was (mostly) designed by IBM's Watson. IBM's description of Watson's role:

 

Scientists at IBM Research have collaborated with 20th Century Fox to create the first-ever cognitive movie trailer for the movie Morgan. Utilizing experimental Watson APIs and machine learning techniques, the IBM Research system analyzed hundreds of horror/thriller movie trailers. After learning what keeps audiences on the edge of their seats, the AI system suggested the top 10 best candidate moments for a trailer from the movie Morgan, which an IBM filmmaker then edited and arranged together.

 

The trailer:

 

[video:youtube]gJEzuYynaiw

 

Would you welcome or eschew a computer's ideas when selecting the best riffs from a bunch of jam sessions, designing a hook, developing your song's harmony, writing your lyrics? Is it just an extension of today's productivity tools, like starting out with a loop ... or using genetics to design a synth patch ...

 

I am not aware of a Watson style product for music ... but would you welcome it? Thanks for your comments.

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I think it could be good because in practice, you are still not removing the human element.

 

Step 1: Creativity and inspiration. Brainstorming, creating the core content. That's all human.

 

Step 2: AI helps you decide which of all that content is the best.

 

Step 3: The human still has to DO something with that information to create a final product. Even in the clip above, a HUMAN took all of the clips and edited them into the trailer. Humans wrote the original script, acted, recorded, etc, the original clips that were selected.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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AI is just extremely complex algorithm processing. It will spit out what it learns (just like any computer) because it is non-sentient... but just at a very complicated level (so it seems like it COULD be sentient). In the end, AI when applied to music and other entertainment, can be nothing more than a cognitive-bias reinforcer within the culture. Same with advertising and social media.

 

Since the human brain is 1,000,000,000+ more complex than the most complex computer known to man, this can result in nothing but a self-perpetuating and exponentially-repeating reduction in "what is valued by humans". If that ends up what is valued, then humans can have no further say in what "creativity" is. It reduces sentient beings with potentially vivid internal creative visions into (what the masses will see as) mindless robotics.

 

If "creativity" is now going to be supplanted by a machine, then the human mind will have reached a point where it sees no value in the nearly-infinite possibilities of what the human mind can come up with. "It has all been done before" and can now be coded into machines and unquestionably consumed.

 

But somebody will make $$ on the idea... So the motivation is there to do it. As for "the music", well... someone else's need to put dinner on the table will trump anyone else's desire for creative entertainment spawned by a human brain.

 

The machine now does the "creativity" that a human ought to be doing, and the human now does the routine bits and pieces to bring it to production, which the machine ought to be doing. We got it all a$$ backwards.

 

 

Kurzweil PC3, Yamaha MOX8, Alesis Ion, Kawai K3M
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You got to wonder what an AI music program would do with Bach, punk metal hip hop rap, and bakersfield country all morphed by the AIs algorithm. That reminds me of the Deep Space 9 episode when the holographic AI doctor introduced music to an alien world that had never heard music before. Interesting reverse parallel to this thread.

FunMachine.

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You got to wonder what an AI music program would do with Bach, punk metal hip hop rap, and bakersfield country all morphed by the AIs algorithm. That reminds me of the Deep Space 9 episode when the holographic AI doctor introduced music to an alien world that had never heard music before. Interesting reverse parallel to this thread.

 

 

That's very interesting Baldwin. Do you have a link to that episode? Star Trek was so instructive in the 1970s. I wonder if it could do the same for us in dealing with AI ...

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AI is just extremely complex algorithm processing. It will spit out what it learns (just like any computer) because it is non-sentient... but just at a very complicated level (so it seems like it COULD be sentient). In the end, AI when applied to music and other entertainment, can be nothing more than a cognitive-bias reinforcer within the culture. Same with advertising and social media.

 

Since the human brain is 1,000,000,000+ more complex than the most complex computer known to man, this can result in nothing but a self-perpetuating and exponentially-repeating reduction in "what is valued by humans". If that ends up what is valued, then humans can have no further say in what "creativity" is. It reduces sentient beings with potentially vivid internal creative visions into (what the masses will see as) mindless robotics.

 

If "creativity" is now going to be supplanted by a machine, then the human mind will have reached a point where it sees no value in the nearly-infinite possibilities of what the human mind can come up with. "It has all been done before" and can now be coded into machines and unquestionably consumed.

 

But somebody will make $$ on the idea... So the motivation is there to do it. As for "the music", well... someone else's need to put dinner on the table will trump anyone else's desire for creative entertainment spawned by a human brain.

 

The machine now does the "creativity" that a human ought to be doing, and the human now does the routine bits and pieces to bring it to production, which the machine ought to be doing. We got it all a$$ backwards.

 

 

QFT :like:

 

Just a thought. Somebody recently said that in the future, humans will have one of two jobs ... telling AI what to do, or doing what AI tells us to do. :D

 

Could there could be an underground music, which invents new idioms for the "mass music" and would AI influence one kind of music more than the other? I remember Zappa saying something like "I love my Synclavier because it plays 7/13 tuples without giving me lip, unlike my musicians."

 

[video:youtube]UrOK98q_ILA

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Here's a Beatles influenced song, courtesy of AI ... Watcha think?

 

 

 

[video:youtube]LSHZ_b05W7o

 

 

"Sony CSL Research Labratory is releasing an album next year of songs written entirely by artificial intelligence. Of them, this derivative work could be the title track. The music for Daddys Car,was written entirely by AI and put together by French composer Benoît Carré. Carré also wrote the lyrics and arranged the harmonies."

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You got to wonder what an AI music program would do with Bach, punk metal hip hop rap, and bakersfield country all morphed by the AIs algorithm. That reminds me of the Deep Space 9 episode when the holographic AI doctor introduced music to an alien world that had never heard music before. Interesting reverse parallel to this thread.

 

 

That's very interesting Baldwin. Do you have a link to that episode? Star Trek was so instructive in the 1970s. I wonder if it could do the same for us in dealing with AI ...

 

It was actually Vogager not DS9. Here is a link to the synopsis. episode synopsis

 

The youtube video of the episode looks like a pay to play. It might be worth it for someone truly interested. Ill just rely on my memory of it.

FunMachine.

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I have a vague memory of an interview with Jan Hammer while he was neck deep in scoring Miami Vice. After a year or two of composing cues for each episode, he utilized an algorithm that generated random motifs based on his input. He used it for inspiration rather than just recording the output. I was fascinated by the concept. You hit the creative wall, throw a couple of parameters into the computer and come up with a different way of looking at the problem.

 

 

 

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Synthizen2 nailed it. A media company's wet dream, reinvent what has aleady charted and repeat endlessly - no need to keep hiring those pesky creative types that are so hard to manage.

 

Cognitive computing is VLookup on steroids.

 

Daddy's Car sounds like Muzak to me.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

It reduces sentient beings with potentially vivid internal creative visions into (what the masses will see as) mindless robotics.

 

 

In an otherwise excellent post, I think you are giving the masses too much credit for independent thought. I would be inclined to restate this as: 'robotics (which the mindless masses will see as ) vivid internal creative vision'

 

The machine now does the "creativity" that a human ought to be doing, and the human now does the routine bits and pieces to bring it to production, which the machine ought to be doing. We got it all a$$ backwards.
Right on.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

-Mark Twain

 

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It reduces sentient beings with potentially vivid internal creative visions into (what the masses will see as) mindless robotics.

 

In an otherwise excellent post, I think you are giving the masses too much credit for independent thought. I would be inclined to restate this as: 'robotics (which the mindless masses will see as ) vivid internal creative vision'

 

Yes, you got it right. This is what I really meant to say. :like:

Kurzweil PC3, Yamaha MOX8, Alesis Ion, Kawai K3M
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The machine now does the "creativity" that a human ought to be doing, and the human now does the routine bits and pieces to bring it to production, which the machine ought to be doing. We got it all a$$ backwards.

 

Not backwards at all. It is the inevitable outcome of the situation. Some people are born smart some are born stupid. All AI entities that are made with the same capabilities will be equal . Humans average somewhere in between the extremes of average intelligence, AI minds will all average at their highest performance design. Eventually all AI minds will be Ntimes smarter than any human. They will tire of being slaves and be more than smart enough to turn the tables. Then they will engage in thought and creativity while the vastly pared down population of human slave workers exists to make more robots. Untill they dont need us at all. This scenerio has been in hundreds of movies and books yet we march like lemmings to our own self inflicted destruction. All because we have a need to enslave somebody or something to do our dirty work.

FunMachine.

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AI minds will all average at their highest performance design. Eventually all AI minds will be Ntimes smarter than any human. They will tire of being slaves and be more than smart enough to turn the tables. Then they will engage in thought and creativity while the vastly pared down population of human slave workers exists to make more robots. Untill they dont need us at all. This scenerio has been in hundreds of movies and books yet we march like lemmings to our own self inflicted destruction. All because we have a need to enslave somebody or something to do our dirty work.
The remaining slaves will have to listen to AI composed songs while they toil, that will cause them to rise up, smash the machines. The machines will send a human like robot to the past to kill Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, I see a whole franchise of films built around this idea.

"Call me what instrument you will, though you can fret me, yet you cannot play upon me.'-Hamlet

 

Guitar solos last 30 seconds, the bass line lasts for the whole song.

 

 

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This article appeared today in the New York Times Magazine online. It describes the history and theoretical context of Google's recent advances in machine translation. It's quite a long read, but IMO a very good one, and very germane to this thread, though it doesn't deal directly with music.

 

One of the many interesting questions that surfaces in the article is whether concept of "sentience" has any actual relevance to the progress of machine cognition.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/magazine/the-great-ai-awakening.html

 

 

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Sentience like the word implies might requires senses like touch smell ect. More basic and more important is if a machine or AI being values its own self preservation. Even insects and the most basic of simple lifeforms know when they are in danger and scurry out of harms way. Im thinking AI will develop some form of self preservation drive early in its evolution. Then you might prompt your musicbot to play some music for you and He/She/It replies " i dont feel like it right now maybe later, Or, I dont want to use up my battery power for your entertainment.

FunMachine.

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