HAMEGZ Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Two IEM scenarios; The First a Country Rock band from around 18 years ago.Guitarist and bassist had Small TEC21 amp simulators,Roland V Drums, 2nd Guitarist/harmonica direct, my keys submixed to board. We had an off stage monitor mixer we all went thru before going to the mains, we mixed our monitors and the FOH sound guy took care of everything else. We either had wired or wireless IEMs.Playing was a dream everything was balanced and right there and tight.This was before the new personal monitors with more me and submixes right on the remote. Fast Forward to about 5 years ago, 4 piece swamp pop/rock/ band. The deaf dumb and blind guitarist/vocalist refused to try them he had to "feel" the music but played to damn loud on stage and played louder during my solos. the drummer was literally deaf in one ear. Never could get stage wedges loud enough for them. I felt it was a losing battle and left. I can see both camps about the feeling the music but also the dream mix in your ears. Right now my country 4 piece band(all OLDER guys like me) use two small monitors but the stage volume is wonderful and manageable, I can hear my SSV3 SpaceStation V3, MoxF6,PX5S,Hammond-SK2,Artis7,Stage2-73, KronosX-73,MS Pro145,Ventilator,OB DB1,Lester K Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I'm about to do a show with them (IEMs, v-drums, the whole shebang), and I'm terrified. Namely, because it's a big show and I'm nervous about not having any direct control over identifying or fixing issues; it's all in the hands of the sound guy. I'm sure that in best-case scenarios IEMs can be great. But what if something goes wrong? With everybody going through one system, a single error/failure can take out the whole show. With individual guitar amps and an acoustic drum set, half the band's gear can crap out and a song can still keep going. This way, if the monitor mix goes wonky, or our in-ears fail or the batteries go (we're doing wireless), there is no sound at all. I would totally dig it for either a) a venue that was used to doing IEMs and had their own tried-and-true system set up, or b) a regular band that had its own tried-and-true system. This is neither; a one off theatrical production for 7000 people over four nights with limited tech time to work out bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 If stage volume could be kept at reasonable levels I would probably not use IEMs. It looks like there are two camps: isolation, i.e. old guys like me that want to keep whatever hearing they have, and those that just like the ability to control and customize a mix that doesn't depend on a sound system and a sound person. Of course one could be in both camps but I think the impetus to switch is usually one or the other reason, the other being a bonus. For me the experience of playing live on a stage and feeling the music happen is paramount but doesn't trump the importance of keeping my tinnitus from getting worse than it is. I keep hoping that with time, using IEMs will give me the same feeling I used to have when playing without them on gigs with reasonable stage volumes, good acoustics, and most importantly, musicians sensitive to dynamics. The fact that this is not the usual case speaks to a few things which is beyond the scope of this post but I have to say that for me IEMs are a "necessary evil." Having said this, I'm always looking at ways to improve the experience so I'm hopeful that things will get better. I know my hearing won't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 It would be interesting to know what styles of music we are talking about here because it's different culturally sometimes. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKeys Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 The eight pc horn band I am in all wear IEM and the only live stage sounds are horns, drums and guitar amp so he can control his tone. Bass, and keys are direct and I like the low stage volume. Jimmy Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT www.steveowensandsummertime.com www.jimmyweaver.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredeye Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 My limiting factor is my hearing impairment. Both ears have 60% loss and big dip in the speech range so I have to wear a hearing aid. I can't use the ear pods. Only a set of headphones with the aid on "telephone coil" would work. We all use IEMs with small guitar amps & acoustic drums for a pretty low stage volume. Our singer wears hearing aids, so his IEMs have a 10-band equalizer in the line to boost what his hearing aids would. At one festival when we couldn't use our IEMs, he had a setting on his aids, controlled by a little remote, that I believe he called "Music Setting" or "Loud Setting" or something like that. That setting allowed him to hear even with the loud stage volume. Sorry I don't know what brand aids he wears, but he's never mentioned needing a telephone coil to get by. Good luck if you research this. Re: Clean FOH sounding like a recording. Our sound man said that after we went all IEM and no stage monitors, that he had to remix everything because the stage monitors used to come through the mics. It did clean up our FOH sound a lot. I don't use an amp anymore, less to carry, everyone gets their own mono mix with panning, yeah! Kurzweil PC4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 The band I tour with has the "combo" approach. Seven pieces (2 horns, lead vocal, bass, guitar, keys & drums). The lead vocalist, both horns & myself use IEMs. But the lead vocalist has a wedge as well not sure of the reason. The bass player & guitarist both sing and their wedges are LOUD. The drummer also uses a wedge. I used to as well, but the stage volume was horribly loud and the increase in my tinnitus (after almost 20 years of it staying basically the same) was scary. So in my case, IEMs have almost nothing to do with bringing down the stage volume! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Originally before digital mixers were affordable, the way my old band did it is, IMHO the best way to do it and most preferable to FOH. We had a custom 16-ch splitter snake (rack mount splitters can be bough and XLR-XLR snakes). The purpose of this was that one end fanned out to plug into the FOH snake from our rack and gave FOH the "wired" side of the split. The transformer isolated side of the snake went to our monitor mixer - being isolated, the sound guy could not claim that Anyang we did was affecting the signal he was getting, the split was in the same rack as the monitor mixer (an A&H mix wizard with 6 sends set prefaced, post EQ). Everything was labeled. Sound guy ran everything into the front of our rack and plugged our snake into his stage box. Channels and band members were labeled on the mixer. IEM transmitters were mounted and premiered in the rack, with the exception of the drummer who ran wired, and we'd coil his send up in the back of he rack. Self contained system ready to roll, barely had to touch it from gig to gig, and completely independent of FOH. With digital mixers, often now the FOH mixer is digital and you use an app in your phone to connect to it and control your own mix, which goes to your IEM transmitter. If you don't want to count on FOH and use your own digital mixer all the time, you either still need a split, or need to talk the sound guy into mixing with your mixer with an iPad or something, Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffkey Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 ..just a side note to my situation of using a monitor while the singer,drummer and bass players use IEMs.. I still can use the app on my Ipad to control my mix which means I have no guitar in my mix (he mics his amp,uses a wedge, and won't use IEM's), no bass or drums, just my mix is just keys and all vocals. Works for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane hugo Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 To answer the original post: Bowie almost did that on the Earthling tour in the late '90s. Guitarist Reeves Gabrels had 2 wedge cabs at the front of the stage so he could do feedback tricks, but that was it for onstage speakers. http://blip.fm/invite/WorkRelease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnor Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 It would be interesting to know what styles of music we are talking about here... 3am - matchbox 20 ain't no sunshine - bill withers all summer long/alabama/werewolf medley - kid rock already gone - eagles alright now - free another brick in the wall - pink floyd blister in the sun - violent femmes blue on black - kenny wayne sheppard brown eyed girl - van morrison come together - beatles/aerosmith counting stars - one republic dani california - red hot chili peppers dont bring me down - ELO every rose has its thorn - poison free falling - tom petty funkytown - pseudo echo glad you came - the wanted hard to handle - black crowes island in the sun - weezer jealousy - gin blossums keep your hands to yourself - georgia satellites knockin on heavens door - guns and roses kung fu fighting - carl douglas louie louie/wild thing medley - kingsmen/troggs margaritaville - jimmy buffett mary janes last dance - tom petty my own worst enemy - lit old time rock n roll - bob segar one thing leads to another - the fixx peg - steely dan pink houses - john mellencamp play that funky music - wild cherry purple rain - prince rapper's delight - sugarhill gang rock the casbah - clash save tonight - eagle eye cherry sexy back - timberlake sharp dressed man - zz top she hates me puddle of mudd shook me all night long - ac dc simple man - lynard skynard slide - goo goo dolls the joker - the steve miller band the middle - jimmy eats world the one i love - r.e.m. uptown funk - bruno mars vertigo - u2 what I got - sublime what I like about you - the romantics when I come around - green day wonderful tonight - eric clapton Gear: Hardware: Nord Stage3, Korg Kronos 2, Novation Summit Software: Cantabile 3, Halion Sonic 3 and assorted VST plug-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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