Smoking and Playing

[Paul Scott Rock]

Toward the end days of smoking in bars here in Ohio, they had developed such effective smoke eating machines it was not an issue.

And then it hurt our business.

I don't smoke anymore but when I did , I was one of the greatest smokers who ever smoked. It was a different world then. We all grew up with parents who smoked every minute. It was normal to smoke. It actually did make you look cool. That part was true. Kieth Richard could smoke a cigarette and play guitar like no one ever though possible. When you went into battle in the army , they gave you bullets and smokes. That's how important smokes were. Eddie Van Halen kept his smoke tucked into his headstock strings . Back in the 50s the news anchor smoked right on TV. Like it was normal.

 

Now adays it's different. You can't smoke anymore. I quit because I got too old. But I still some pot . I'm smoking it right now.

 

I see the day when people can smoke pot in bars and I will be playing my guitar there too.

[Eric Iverson]

Smoking pot in bars? Well, it would probably lead to less bad behavior than DRINKING, LOL.

 

I just hope that the musicians don't do it, or at least OVERDO it, while onstage. It doesn't enhance your performance, though you might THINK it does, LOL.

 

I remember back in the day some guys would try to perform while tripping on acid, but even the GRATEFUL DEAD had to abandon that strategy..........

[whitefang]

In a bit of relation, there's a story that alto legend CHARLIE PARKER used to think SCAG enhanced his playing despite everyone around him hearing differently. One night at a jam, bassist CHARLES MINGUS, who owned one of the early magnetic tape recorders, recorded Bird blowing while after a fix and played it back for Bird next day but told Charlie, "You gotta hear this NEW kid in town play! He's SENSATIONAL!"

 

But when Bird heard it, he was beside himself with how CRUMMY the sax player sounded. After berating him and saying the worst things he could think of about him he asked, "Just who IS this no talent motherf***ker anyway?" When Mingus told him,"It's YOU, Motherf***ker! THAT'S how you sound when you high!" It was THEN that Parker cut back on playing stoned.

Whitefang

[Larryz]

+1 Eric, I quit drinking heavily and playing after hearing my own recording the next day back in '79. I limit myself to two beers/drinks before/during playing in front of anyone...I know that getting high will make you think you sound great. But, just listen to a recording the next day and you'll find you were not as good as you thought you were...at least that's my experience. I gave that up a long long time ago too LOL!

[Dannyalcatraz]

The only issue I have with banning smoking in restaurants is that I've never in my life been in ANY eatery where the smoke was SO THICK as to either be annoying or hazardous. Usually, in a 1,000 sq. ft. restaraunt area, I'd see maybe two or three people "lit up". At the most. Nowhere NEAR enough to "kill off" any "innocent bystanders" I'd say.

Whitefang

 

I've been in restaurants smoky enough to create a vision impairing haze. I sat in the car while the others ate.

[whitefang]

PAUL SCOTT brought up something interesting up there...

 

"We all grew up with parents who smoked every minute." Indeed. So did I. And yet, NONE of the illnesses or other health issues I've had from then to now have EVER been connected to "second-hand" smoke! That's why I never bought into that crap. But you know, Americans. They'll swalow damn near anything. NOW, when they see someone light up even 50 feet away, they run in "fear of their lives"! But as a smoker, I was always respectful of the fact that tobacco smoke CAN be unpleasant for some, and was always courteous when any asked me if I could refrain or extinguish my smoke in their presence. For fun though, I'd say I'd comply, but only if they promised not to fart.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

In a bit of relation, there's a story that alto legend CHARLIE PARKER used to think SCAG enhanced his playing despite everyone around him hearing differently. One night at a jam, bassist CHARLES MINGUS, who owned one of the early magnetic tape recorders, recorded Bird blowing while after a fix and played it back for Bird next day but told Charlie, "You gotta hear this NEW kid in town play! He's SENSATIONAL!"

 

But when Bird heard it, he was beside himself with how CRUMMY the sax player sounded. After berating him and saying the worst things he could think of about him he asked, "Just who IS this no talent motherf***ker anyway?" When Mingus told him,"It's YOU, Motherf***ker! THAT'S how you sound when you high!" It was THEN that Parker cut back on playing stoned.

 

Yeah ?

WHERE'S THAT STORY FROM ?

1ST, CP never "cut back" / 2nd, Parker never based his ideas on what he sounded like in performance but on what his schooled ear told him fit.

[whitefang]

Read that account in some DOWNBEAT mag article about Bird. Back in the late '70's. I think they were QUOTING Mingus at the time.

 

And it's long been my understanding that Parker's "schooled ear" was the result of many years of stringent practice and applied experience, and not any real "schooling". Diz recalled that many a time Bird woud show up at his place in the middle of the night with some new idea and wanted Diz to write it down for him, Gillespie furiously jotting them down while Bird played them because Bird couldn't read or write notation. He was a "natural" phenomenon.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

Parker had lessons from several tutors from childhood, some classically oriented, some early jazz masters.

He wrote his own notation & created the arrangements & orchestrations on several recordings he did late in his career utilizing strings.

[Dannyalcatraz]

In a bit of relation, there's a story that alto legend CHARLIE PARKER used to think SCAG enhanced his playing despite everyone around him hearing differently. One night at a jam, bassist CHARLES MINGUS, who owned one of the early magnetic tape recorders, recorded Bird blowing while after a fix and played it back for Bird next day but told Charlie, "You gotta hear this NEW kid in town play! He's SENSATIONAL!"

 

But when Bird heard it, he was beside himself with how CRUMMY the sax player sounded. After berating him and saying the worst things he could think of about him he asked, "Just who IS this no talent motherf***ker anyway?" When Mingus told him,"It's YOU, Motherf***ker! THAT'S how you sound when you high!" It was THEN that Parker cut back on playing stoned.

 

Yeah ?

WHERE'S THAT STORY FROM ?

1ST, CP never "cut back" / 2nd, Parker never based his ideas on what he sounded like in performance but on what his schooled ear told him fit.

 

I read the same account as Whitefang.

[d halfnote]

That just means the source is widely available, not that it's true.

 

Read a couple legit bios of Parker.

[Dannyalcatraz]

That just means the source is widely available, not that it's true.

 

Read a couple legit bios of Parker.

I agree- it could have just been a story Mingus told to make the interview better- but the truth of that particular matter isn't that important to me.

[whitefang]

Could be true, or might not be. Certainly none of the people relating these anecdotes have anything to gain by LYING, but regardless, by now it's all sawdust and doesn't really matter. And anyway....

 

I was just passing it on. NOT trying to compose any unauthorized official biography.

Whitefang

[d halfnote]

Could be true, or might not be. Certainly none of the people relating these anecdotes have anything to gain by LYING, but regardless, by now it's all sawdust and doesn't really matter.

I guess the "doesn't matter" part's why yer bringing it up, eh ?

----------------------------

 

Read Mingus's autobio to get a glimmer of what one might gain by lying.

Cat was a truly great musician & social commenter but a shameless self promoter.

 

Byrd was a lazy cat & may've gotten a kick from having Gillespie or others do his work for him but to call him "unschooled" is wrong.

 

Further, & this is where it gets on ppl's nerves, there's an implicit denigration in evaluating someone as a "natural", as though they have some innate advantage over others & didn't have to work to achieve what often involved years/decades of hard work.

WORSE (for ya'll that like throwing capital letters around) it suggests that they lack the intellectual rigor to understand what they did just by, y'know, by bein' natchal....

 

When McKinley Morganfield bent notes, you can betyerbottomdollah he knew exactly the effect he wanted & how to get it.

Same w/ his acolyte Buddy Guy.

 

So easy to rob someone, even if "Gee I didn't mean THAT / I wuz just passin' it on / just..."

 

 

[whitefang]

The "doesn't matter" thing merely implies that all them cats are long gone and there's no dependable way to varify anyting. Bios written after their deaths also rely on info passed on by family survivors and old friend's that might have still been around and don't wish to put any bad light on a dear old friend or beloved family member.

 

And there really IS no denigration in saying anyody is a "natural" talent. Sure, Bird( no "y" ) did work hard, and it paid off. But others worked just as hard if not harder and didn't get as good or as far.

Whitefang

[Eric Iverson]

I heard a radio interview, Bird interviewed by another well known sax player, Paul Desmond (most famously with Dave Brubeck). Paul mentioned that Bird had "fantastic technique" and Bird replied that in his younger days he'd sometimes spend 15 hours a day practicing.

Do I believe that? Well, in HIS case, YES. LOL

As far as bios, I agree, they can be interesting and informative but are not sacrosanct; it's human beings reminiscing, after all.....

[DocPate]

Wow, great discussion