analogman1 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hi folks, I have a Hammond XK1C. It uses an external power supply, which plugs into a really small, cheap connector...many of you know this type of connector... Question: Is there any kind of "break out box", for want of a better term, to prevent this from being damaged? It just seems so precarious, and I[m really careful with it but wish there was a better solution to prevent potential damage. Is there something available to permanently be mounted on the back of the organ, that I could then plug the power supply into? Thanks in advance! Tom Nord Electro 5D, Modal Cobalt 8, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjosko Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Perhaps something like a MagSafe kind of thing. I Googled DIY magsafe that gave me this site, among many : http://www.instructables.com/id/MagSafe-for-the-Rest-of-Us-A-DIY-Magnetic-Power-A/ /Bjørn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hi folks, I have a Hammond XK1C. It uses an external power supply, which plugs into a really small, cheap connector...many of you know this type of connector... It looks like the standard DC connector that many consumer electronics devices that are powered by external AC adapters use. What kind of damage are you talking about? I can see two scenarios - someone accidentally pulling out the cord by getting caught in it walking around the organ, or the keyboard's jack being compromised by repeated insertion and disconnection of the plug. I had a similar situation with my Roland A800 Pro's USB jack (which is used for power as well as midi data connection). The jack came apart from repeated connections/disconnections. After replacing it for the second time I had the idea to get a short extension cable like this one, and leave it connected to the keyboard permanently: I thought I had it solved - never again did I need to get near the Roland's USB jack. I was wrong, the jack has come apart again. My theory is that while being transported, the keyboard pressed against the case, which put pressure on the breakout cable's plug and eventually loosened the jack. I'm not sure I can replace the USB jack for the third time since it's soldered directly to the keyboard's main board which looks pretty chewed up from my previous repairs. I was thinking I'd just replace the whole board, but Roland wants $215 for it - that's about 3/4 of the cost of a brand new A800 Pro no thanks. If I can manage to solder in a new jack, my thinking now is to try and fabricate some kind of "shield" over the plug to take any stress off it. Anyway I guess the point of this novel is that you may be better off leaving things as is! The DC connector actually seems fairly robust compared to my USB jack. I did a quick search for a short breakout cable but came up with nothing except some meant to adapt different ID/OD plugs. If you're comfortable with a drill or dremel and a soldering iron you could build your own custom connector, but I think that having anything hanging off the back of the XK1C is not going to work out in the long run. (And, ironically, until I fix the USB jack I have to use the A800 Pro's DC in jack with an external power supply!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 There is a cable strain relief built into the XK-1C right next to the power inlet. You ARE using that, right? http://www.hotrodmotm.com/images/misc/strainrelief.jpg Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 If someone trips over the power cable, I think I'd rather not have it in that strain relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman1 Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 I am using the cable strain relief...my concern is the repeated inserting of the cheap power supply. Tom Nord Electro 5D, Modal Cobalt 8, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulceLabs.com Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I am using the cable strain relief...my concern is the repeated inserting of the cheap power supply. Repeated insertion should not be an issue as long as you are careful. Yes strain relief is important, but it's also important to take your time and not rush things. Don't just slam the whole thing in there!!! Start with just the tip and maybe wiggle it a little till you get the line-up just right... then go all the way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 After the last post I think this thread is now over!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 " ..but it's also important to take your time and not rush things. Don't just slam the whole thing in there!!! Start with just the tip and maybe wiggle it a little till you get the line-up just right... then go all the way in." Good advice on several fronts. I know my wife has told this many times...... 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit 93 Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoochie Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 In spite of that excellent answer I'll offer another. You can get L shaped barrel connectors and different connector of your choice. Something that's easy to replace. I hate these types of connectors because they are flimsy and your constantly nudging a small solder point inside everytime you plug in and remove the power. IEC plugs are designed to take this type of force far better. Wire up the L connector and leave it in the keyboard through the strain relief. Then use your new connector on the other end to plug in. You'll have to put the mate of the new connector of your choice at the point your going to be plugging in on the supply side. Optimally you would have some kind of guard or cover over the barrel input. All the ones I've had like this there have been kicked wires, crushed in lid case wires. missing plugs, power supplies smoking out magic unobtanium. Good luck. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB Dave Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just wait until you bust the receptacle in the keyboard and discover that the replacement costs $18 plus $15 shipping. Completely obscene. I was so pissed that in the course of ordering other stuff I ordered up some sample candidates and managed to find the exact replacement part, which costs $1.18 at Mouser. Tell all your friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulceLabs.com Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 " ..but it's also important to take your time and not rush things. Don't just slam the whole thing in there!!! Start with just the tip and maybe wiggle it a little till you get the line-up just right... then go all the way in." Good advice on several fronts. I know my wife has told this many times...... I think I know where you are going with this, but then I saw you wrote "your wife".. so now I'm confused. :idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm starting to think that these jacks should be considered items like the timing belt on a car - something that wears to the point where, if it breaks it's gonna put you out of commision, so you should replace it every so often even if it's working. The takeaway I have with my USB jack issue (which I described in my novella-length post above) is that leaving a connector plugged in caused stress and eventual failure. When the DC in jack on the keyboard has nothing plugged in, it's flush with the keyboard casing so IMO it's much less prone to getting stressed than if one left something plugged in even a short breakout cable meant to move the connection/disconnection stresses away from the keyboard's jack. Also, IMO another issue is that many of these jacks are not mounted to a panel and wired to connection points on a circuit board- they're soldered directly to said board. Stressing the connector puts force on the solder connections and is probably not a good thing. Does this make sense? I'd be happy to hear the real scoop from any mechanical/EE guys with better insights than my hunches it might help me decide what to do about the 3rd failed USB jack on my keyboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman1 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Lots of GREAT ideas, and some funny ones as well! Anyone know where I could get the L-shaped connectors? I looked on the Mouser site but could not locate it. Tom Nord Electro 5D, Modal Cobalt 8, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 OR, Carry the idea to its logical conclusion and mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman1 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 """Carry the idea to its logical conclusion and mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis.""" Is this feasible to do, with the XK1C? Tom Nord Electro 5D, Modal Cobalt 8, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Carry the idea to its logical conclusion and mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. Is this feasible to do, with the XK1C? You'd have to consult with a qualified tech. Regarding external power supplies, the only way I will gig with them is if they are inside a rack where they are secure, are not vulnerable to trips, and do not need repeated unplugging. Those d#mn wall warts are the bane of gigging musicians as they are not rugged enough and few musicians are techy enough to select replacements (must know voltage, current, polarity (if DC), barrel dimensions - ARGH!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 """Carry the idea to its logical conclusion and mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis.""" Is this feasible to do, with the XK1C? As long as there is room inside to put it, I don't see any issues. I'd be very surprised if the instrument is full of boards. Modern surface mount electronics are pretty tiny. Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman1 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Carry the idea to its logical conclusion and mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. Is this feasible to do, with the XK1C? You'd have to consult with a qualified tech. Regarding external power supplies, the only way I will gig with them is if they are inside a rack where they are secure, are not vulnerable to trips, and do not need repeated unplugging. Those d#mn wall warts are the bane of gigging musicians as they are not rugged enough and few musicians are techy enough to select replacements (must know voltage, current, polarity (if DC), barrel dimensions - ARGH!) I'd gladly pay a lot more for something with an internal power supply. It probably won't pay to get a tech involved... I will just have to be careful but I hate it when manufacturers skimp on this part of the product! Tom Nord Electro 5D, Modal Cobalt 8, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I think that using an external PS is a route many manufacturers take to avoid UL certification hassles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I personally think when you're talking about a moveable stage instrument in the neighborhood of $1K and up with a "pro"-ish customer base, an external PS is really an insult. I know why they do it, I just think it's lame. I have sold all of my instruments and mixers that have non-standard power cables, many of which were excellent except for that. Something like a home digital piano, or even rack mounted gear, not a huge deal. But for stage gear I avoid anything with a external PS. A total non-starter for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It probably won't pay to get a tech involved... I will just have to be careful but I hate it when manufacturers skimp on this part of the product! As long as there's room inside and the supply isn't generating any significant heat I would go for it. If you have flexibility where you mount it inside you should steer clear of the audio output circuit/signals to avoid potential RFI. This is where a quick call to Hammond tech may help advise or not, but what do have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I think that using an external PS is a route many manufacturers take to avoid UL certification hassles. That is correct. Another UL hassle is $$$$$$ which adds to the retail cost. External PS also reduces EMI noise by putting distance between the audio circuits and the hmmmmmmm inducing transformer. Every professional studio mixer console uses external PS, as well as some studio processors (Marshall Time Modulator). The downside is increased inductance with the longer wiring between the PS and the device, which impacts voltage regulation. A Kelvin force/sense can control this but more components thus more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 While I agree it'd be nice if everything came with an internal power supply, I've never experienced a problem with the connectors on my SK1 (which I've had for 5 years now, and it's done a lot of gigs) or any other piece of equipment with a similar connector. The only thing that seems to occur with some lighter duty power supplies is that the cable breaks internally and it's generally not feasible to repair them once that happens. The one problem I have experienced is leaving the power supply at home! I have spares for the critical power supplies (except for the Mojo for which I have yet to track one down) but I've never experienced a failure. A major advantage of external power supplies for us folks in Australia is that many items would not be available here if it was all internal power supplies. An example is the Hammond XM-47 adaptor (with internal power supply) which I wanted to get to connect my SK1 to a 6-pin Leslie. This is easily obtainable in the US, but not here as (according to the story I was eventually told) it would have cost $25000 for Hammond in the UK to have it certified, and I guess they reasoned that it wouldn't be worth it to them as the sales would likely be too low to justify it. My advice to the OP is to relax and enjoy your XK1C and worry about problems when they happen. Legend Live, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, Yamaha CP4, Hammond SK1, Ventilator and various other bitsânâpieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnor Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 ...mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. This. I've done it on four different instruments already. First was a DX7 back in the day (that was just a jack though). Most recently a Fatar Studio 1176. Gear: Hardware: Nord Stage3, Kurzweil Forte7, Korg Kronos 2, Novation Summit Software: Cantabile 3, Halion Sonic 3 and assorted VST plug-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 ...mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. This. I've done it on four different instruments already. First was a DX7 back in the day (that was just a jack though). Most recently a Fatar Studio 1176. oooh..... new project for me. I have a good dremel type tool with all kinds of cutting wheels....It may be time to mount my power supplies inside my board Since my board's power supplies are all of th two prong variety, I think I should use an IEC C8 plug in the chassis. Correct? http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/iec_zpsll8wetah.jpeg David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom-08| Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 ...mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. This. I've done it on four different instruments already. First was a DX7 back in the day (that was just a jack though). Most recently a Fatar Studio 1176. oooh..... new project for me. I have a good dremel type tool with all kinds of cutting wheels....It may be time to mount my power supplies inside my board Since my board's power supplies are all of th two prong variety, I think I should use an IEC C8 plug in the chassis. Correct? That should work. It's what Nord uses. OTOH, sometimes you are trying to source a power cord for this socket and you get one that is indexed with square corners on one side. Annoying, and you have to trim the plug with a knife. Moe --- "I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker http://www.hotrodmotm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 ...mount the PS inside the instrument where it should be. Put a standard IEC power connector on the chassis. This. I've done it on four different instruments already. First was a DX7 back in the day (that was just a jack though). Most recently a Fatar Studio 1176. oooh..... new project for me. I have a good dremel type tool with all kinds of cutting wheels....It may be time to mount my power supplies inside my board Since my board's power supplies are all of th two prong variety, I think I should use an IEC C8 plug in the chassis. Correct? That should work. It's what Nord uses. OTOH, sometimes you are trying to source a power cord for this socket and you get one that is indexed with square corners on one side. Annoying, and you have to trim the plug with a knife. Can you just do that? (apparently you can ). But there are reasons that company's are using an external power supply (fire hazard for example). Can the power supply get rid of the heat? Or will you have the risk of your board catching fire during a 3 set gig....? Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Can you just do that? (apparently you can ). But there are reasons that company's are using an external power supply (fire hazard for example). Can the power supply get rid of the heat? Or will you have the risk of your board catching fire during a 3 set gig....? Fun!! Actually inside my boards where I am thinking of mounting the power, I would create slots for airflow. Also, I may bypass the factory supplied p/s and go for a much smaller panel mount a/c to d/c transformer. For example, my MOXF6 p/s outputs 12vdc at 1.5amps. My local electronics store carries tons of panel mount p/s rated at 12vdc, 2 amps. with 115 to 120 vac input. I would go the extra mile and install an appropriate fuse. I may try this on my PX5S first since I know my way around inside that board, and there is a lot of room. David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom-08| Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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