I-missRichardTee Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Can you amplify a bit, what you mean with "I NEVER play the Bbm as a Bbm, always as an Eb9 or the like. The major-minor change is too "announced" to my ear otherwise." It's one of those changes--in that particular spot in the harmony--that make my ear say, "oh, that thing." Not only in the moment, either, but also in the push back down to the I. If I'm thinking that, I'm leaving the song, and if I'm leaving the song as a listener, I'm also leaving it as a player. So for GA, I never just go to the minor, I sub the bVII chord. From that chord, the song *could* be going back to the I, or could be going to the vi, or could be modulating to bIII, or back to IV, or to V, etc. I know it's a minor thing (ha!), but I have a very powerful "oh that thing" reflex, and that particular chord in that particular song has always been a bug of mine. I did not entirely follow every word... but maybe I have the gist I think IV minor holds a plethora a big bag of cool harmonic potential Check out these distant references Mark Levine speaks extensively about Melodic Minor Harmony and "that thing" is certainly there. Long before Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book I used to notice how much yardage Stevie Wonder got out of ( Let me stay in a single key for clarity sake- We can stay in Key of F maj which means Bbm chord) "that thing" That chord in that key is also deeply investigated in my favorite Harmony book out of the more traditional world- Theory of Harmony by Schoenberg He devotes a large chapter to "RELATIONSHIP TO THE MINOR SUB- DOMINANT" aka the Subdominant minor region. "That thing" well named by you, is the only area in music where so many roots can be superimposed on that basic triad, without destroying the flavour of that thing. In other simpler words in key of F when I see a Bbminor, I can modify bass in many ways: F pedal G as a Stevie Wonder favorite G half dim 7 Ab as a passing tone in bass eg Bbm to Bbm/Ab Bb as a lowly Root! C as a phrygian sound Bbm/C Db as an inversion of Bbm Eb as Eb9 A as a sub for Eb9 I may have skipped one or so! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I specifically mean the movement of Bb to Bbm--the major to minor change there. Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_tour Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Wow. I've never ever played it in G in my life. No idea what key singing in. Playing, just C or F, I guess. I've been waiting for a few years to be at a party with a piano and bust out Slonimsky's birthday minitude -- a very short, whacked-out version of the theme. I don't have the music with me, so can't tell you what number it is, but it's pretty sweet. Hard to remember, though, as you can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 I specifically mean the movement of Bb to Bbm--the major to minor change there. Bb Bbm Bb Bbm6 Bb Bbm7 Eb9 Bb Eb9 Bb G half dim7 Bb A7 alt Bb Eb 13 +11 You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I may have misunderstood. I thought you were asking, when playing GA, do people play the major-minor progression, or the Major to (really the II7[b9]) dim change. The one I don't do, is Bb to Bbm pedaled over Bb. All others are on the table (for me). Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 I may have misunderstood. I thought you were asking, when playing GA, do people play the major-minor progression, or the Major to (really the II7[b9]) dim change. The one I don't do, is Bb to Bbm pedaled over Bb. All others are on the table (for me). We are having communication break down What is GA ( In Indian system GA is 3!!!) I am not really clear on what we are discussing! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 GA = Georgia Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 GA = Georgia Is using and assuming that "GA" is so commonly understood, that typing out the title is passe? Anyway I have no questions about GA In F here are ways I harmonie it F /// A/// D-/// G7/ Bb-/ or F A D- Gm Bb- F A D- D-/c Bhalf dim to Bbm F A D- D-/c Bb B diminished F can go to E half dim7 to A And F to A to D- can go to F7/c Bb to Bbm etc etc You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 GA = Georgia Is using and assuming that "GA" is so commonly understood, that typing out the title is passe? Worse: I never even noticed the potential to read it as changes until you asked me about it, and then I realized: "Jeez, dummy, those read far more like chords than the postal abbreviation you unilaterally and arbitrarily decided to use halfway through the exchange." Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_tour Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Wasn't there a movie about this somewhere? Like that *The Mask* guy and something? Riveting. Well, usually when I've done completing or, as you fancy city-folks call it, "finishing," on the tune "Happy Birthday," I'd still like to know if you do it in G F C Slonimsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Wasn't there a movie about this somewhere? Like that *The Mask* guy and something? Riveting. Well, usually when I've done completing or, as you fancy city-folks call it, "finishing," on the tune "Happy Birthday," I'd still like to know if you do it in G F C Slonimsky F or G... opinion seems to be F is easier for crowd to sing. Busch's version sounds very accurate to me, based on my half a century of playing it in all kinds of bands. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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