DMC-122 with Gemini viable as main live keyboard?

[Giancarlo Robles]

I was considering between a Mojo vs a DMC-122 for continuing my Hammond organ learning on a two manual rig. However I am gravitating towards the DMC-122 with a Gemini because of the possibility of having many more sounds for around the same price. This could help me by being able to take the DMC to live gigs.

 

However, there are not any videos showing the DMC playing live in a band or changing between sounds quickly on both tiers that I have seen. I wanted to ask people here who may have the DMC with the Gemini, how easy is it to change sounds, modify those sounds and overall how user friendly is the setup? Could I quickly change sounds in both manuals between one song and the next? The focus will be in playing live and usually between one song and the next there are just a few seconds to change between patches quickly. Will the DMC-122 be viable for that?

[ABECK]

On the Hammond side, the key difference would be the Mojo Action vs. the DMC. If that is most important, go with the Mojo. However, the DMC is certainly more versatile on the sound side.

 

Switching between sounds is very quick and typically there is no loading time for patches. However, the key to good live workflow is setting things up ahead of time. I have 3 setups I use, which take advantage of 3 different sets of preset assignments. Based on the set lists, I'll assign the appropriate presets. I have a little cheat sheet strip of paper I tape under the buttons to remind me which presets are in each setup. Lo-fi, but very easy to do and effective.

 

Using the editor interface on an iPad or phone is more convenient at home when editing sounds. I try to avoid using the editor during live shows.

[DaveMcM]

+1

[Giancarlo Robles]

Using the editor interface on an iPad or phone is more convenient at home when editing sounds. I try to avoid using the editor during live shows.

 

How do you change between sounds during a live performance without the editor? Do you set up particular button combinations for sounds? Or is there a previous/next button to go between sounds? My current setup is just setting sounds on different midi channels and just change from one channel to the next as needed. Is there a feature like that or can that be set up on the DMC-122?

[ABECK]

There are preset buttons for each manual. You assign the patches you want using the DMC menu function, or the DMC software on your computer. You can create multiple setups in the DMC, each with different preset assignments.

Here's an example of how I set mine up:

 

DMC Setup 1

Upper manual Presets are: 1 - Tonewheel, 2-Acoustic Piano, 3-Lead Synth, 4 - Wurly Chorus, 5 - Strings, 6 - Pad, 7 - Synth Horn

Lower manual Presets are: 1 - Rhodes, 2-Wurli Vibro, 3 - Clav, 4 - Distorted Clav, 5 - CP70, 6 - Bright Piano, 7, CP70 Chorus

 

DMC Setup 2

Upper manual is dedicated to VB3, assigning different drawbar settings to each preset.

Lower manual presets are - 1 - Rhodes, 2 - Poly Synth, 3 - Wurly, etc.....

 

So, there are two types of changes I will typically make during live performance. 1. changing the setup 2. selecting the preset.

 

The only way to really pick and choose from all potential preset sounds in your library on the fly would be using the wifi editor.

 

Hope this helps.

[bjosko]

There are 7 presets buttons pr manual in one user setup, so you can switch between them as you like.

You define the sound on your preset button from your editor, and save it in your user setup.

There are room for 32 user setup.

 

User manual at the bottom of this site:

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=42

[Giancarlo Robles]

There are preset buttons for each manual. You assign the patches you want using the DMC menu function, or the DMC software on your computer. You can create multiple setups in the DMC, each with different preset assignments.

Here's an example of how I set mine up:

 

DMC Setup 1

Upper manual Presets are: 1 - Tonewheel, 2-Acoustic Piano, 3-Lead Synth, 4 - Wurly Chorus, 5 - Strings, 6 - Pad, 7 - Synth Horn

Lower manual Presets are: 1 - Rhodes, 2-Wurli Vibro, 3 - Clav, 4 - Distorted Clav, 5 - CP70, 6 - Bright Piano, 7, CP70 Chorus

 

DMC Setup 2

Upper manual is dedicated to VB3, assigning different drawbar settings to each preset.

Lower manual presets are - 1 - Rhodes, 2 - Poly Synth, 3 - Wurly, etc.....

 

So, there are two types of changes I will typically make during live performance. 1. changing the setup 2. selecting the preset.

 

The only way to really pick and choose from all potential preset sounds in your library on the fly would be using the wifi editor.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thank you for that explanation ABECK. It made my idea of how presets would work much clearer. Based on what you said it will be very easy to just have specific bread and butter sounds, make a few Setups and just switch as needed. Perfect for my use.

 

There are three more questions I have then. 1. Could I make layered sounds in a manual? Example: Piano + Pad, Strings + Pad in either manual? 2. Are there bell sounds in the synth category? Something close to a glockenspiel or the Roland "Fantasia" sound? 3. Any "real brass" sounds?

[t9cstudio]

Giancarlo, I just received mine last Thursday and without much setup time played a gig with it on Saturday. I used the iPhone for the Gemini presets, but just yesterday assigned the lower man 1-7 buttons for other than organ sounds plus organ. There are also a couple of organ Gemini presets. I had lots of time between songs, so just using the iPhone worked ok for me, and always with the organ on the top manual.

I'm still learning how to program it, so I haven't gotten to the setups yet. I don't think the Gemini does layering, but I'd defer to someone more knowledgable or search the forum.

[KRK]

ciao!

 

very easy to edit everything with smartphone or tab.

also, with same app you can assign almost everything to everything (phisical controllers with different functions, ecc).

this operation should be done at home....

 

when you are live, very easy to change preset whit the app too.

but the best thing is to use the DMC editor, create your presets and put them into the DMC so you can change them in realtime without using the smartphone.

 

all is very easy, just need a couple of days practice

[Mighty Ferguson]

Bumping this thread with a related question. I'm seriously considering a DMC-122 plus Gemini and trying to do my homework before to make sure this is going to be a good fit. I've read the manuals and I think I understand what ABECK is explaining above regarding having multiple Setups with 7 preset buttons for each manual within each Setup.

 

It looks like switching Setups requires going into the menu screen and selecting the Setup needed at that moment. One thing I can't determine from the manual: can the encoder dial be configured to increment/decrement Setups?

 

Another question, and this relates to ABECK's comment about using cheat notes taped to the keyboard to know what each preset button is assigned to in each setup. It seems like something like Setlist Maker on a phone/tablet would be a nice way to handle quickly switching Setups and presets within each Setup. Does the DMC-122 respond to program changes itself, so Setups could be changed remotely? I've looked at the DMC's MIDI implementation chart and it's not entirely clear. It looks like the DMC itself can be assigned a MIDI channel separately from the two Gemini DSPs, so I'm hoping it can be controlled remotely.

[Giancarlo Robles]

Hello Mighty. I can only answer your first question since I have my DMC-122 set up with more than one setup. The easiest way to change between setups is to use the shift buttons and the F1 or F2 buttons for going to a previous or next setup, respectively. In my experience, as long as you have your sounds ready beforehand you should have no trouble changing quickly between one setup and the next. You can also use the encoder and do some menu diving, but it is more cumbersome overall.

 

My trick to knowing what sounds are in each setup is to have my ipad open at all times and when I push a preset button the browser will show me the patch I chose. It's not ideal but it has worked fine for me. A bit of memory and organization helps as well.

[ElmerJFudd]

If you're not opposed to another piece of kit. Something like the Sipario might be desirable placed on the upper right of the DMC-122.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2871501/Lab4Music_Sipario_Midi_Command#Post2871501

[Mighty Ferguson]

The easiest way to change between setups is to use the shift buttons and the F1 or F2 buttons for going to a previous or next setup, respectively.

Thanks Giancarlo, I was unaware of this method. That certainly seems easier to deal with between songs on a gig than menu diving. I just found it in the manual with a couple of other shift button shortcuts that seem useful as well.

 

If you're not opposed to another piece of kit. Something like the Sipario might be desirable placed on the upper right of the DMC-122.

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2871501/Lab4Music_Sipario_Midi_Command#Post2871501

Thanks Elmer, that does look like a useful bit of gear. Nice that they're using the Gemini as the sound source in the videos too. But whether using something like this or an iPhone app, I believe both would require the DMC-122 to respond to program change messages for Setups, as in order to properly switch between the full dual manual VB3 mode and a mode for the other voices, it will require a Setup change on the DMC. So that's still an unanswered question.

[Mighty Ferguson]

Okay, bumping this thread after a few months. Sorry for the delay, I had some unexpected travel then a planned surgery/hospital stay. But, I've got Setlist Maker/Bandhelper on IOS controlling both the DMC-122 and each DSP in the Gemini module as I was inquiring about above! I believe this greatly improves the experience using the DMC/Gemini combo in a live situation. Thanks to Guido from GSI for providing some pointers on getting it working and the crucial sysex info needed to swap Setups on the DMC-122! I'm assuming this will work in Setlist Maker/Bandhelper (SM/BH) on Android the same way.

 

Here's a quick video I made to show how it works:

 

[video:youtube]MzIB8yrXFHg

 

I realize you can't see much of how to set it up in there, so I'll try to spell it out here.

 

1. You'll need to set up any DMC-122 Setups you need in advance in the DMC editor on Mac or PC.

2. You'll need to set up any Gemini presets you want in the Gemini editor via a web browser.

3. In SM/BH, you'll need to define MIDI devices for the DMC and Gemini (check their web page for this and the following SM/BH tasks). Note that if you have the DMC and DSP 1 both set to the default channel 1, you only need to create a single MIDI device for both.

4. In SM/BH you'll need to create MIDI presets, which will then be assigned to songs.

5. In each MIDI preset, you'll put the following sysex string assigned to the DMC-122 MIDI device you defined: F0 75 26 09 70 xx F7, where xx is the DMC Setup you want to call. e.g. F0 75 26 09 70 01 F7 will call Setup 01 on the DMC, F0 75 26 09 70 05 F7 will call Setup 05, etc.

6. In each MIDI preset, you'll add program changes for each MIDI device you created for the Gemini DSPs. These are easy... the number = the preset, so a program change of 04 will call preset 04, etc.

7. Create your songs and assign the appropriate MIDI preset

8. Cross your fingers

 

It should work at this point, however there is one caveat that is very important. Each Setup you call MUST be configured to pass MIDI from the DMC MIDI In port to the INT Gemini port. If you call a Setup that's not configured to match, you will block access to the Gemini from the iPad.

 

That's it, so if anyone tries this and can't get it working, let me know.