Kronos 73 - original RH3 action - DAMMIT!!

[timwat]

Okay need some practical advice.

 

Have a Kronos 73 I preordered from SW in 2011. It's the original RH3 action before Korg updated the RH3. Have gigged it constantly, often more than once a week.

 

Now the action is uneven, noisy, clanky. Worse than that, one of the lower E keys is significantly harder to depress, there is some kind of resistance that is somewhat intermittent, but more often present than not.

 

I contacted SW about simply buying a new 73-key RH3 and installing it myself. It's a pretty easy, straightforward task. They checked with Korg, and told me Korg will only sell an entire action to an authorized service center, SW can't sell it to an end user.

 

I want to fix the unit. I'm not looking to purchase a new one.

 

What course of action do you guys recommend? Should I dissemble the entire action and clean? I can't get to the key pivot points to inspect and lubricate without removing every plastic key, which is obviously laborious and slow. If that's the best course of action I'll pursue it, it's just difficult trying to figure when given my current gig and rehearsal schedules.

 

If I take the whole keybed apart, should I be looking to replace the rubber key contacts? While I've installed RAM, replaced broken keys and such inside the unit, I've never undertaken a wholesale keybed disassembly before.

 

Thanks in advance for advice.

 

Tim

[aronnelson]

Find a local authorized dealer and have them do it. You want the newer RH3 action anyway. Wasn't it a free upgrade?

[Hoochie]

 

Tim,

 

You should try Korg about this.

It might qualify as being in the bad run of RH3's.

That may not be "Official" but you should check it out.

I don't think we have anybody left here that's a Korg guy do we?

 

It would be the honorable thing to do after the implied warranty is over.

That first large batch of RH3's was not up to the standards of Korg.

 

And they took care of it.

My first gen k73 was fixed under warranty without question.

 

You might get the keybed at no cost and just pay labor.

As I remember the keybed alone was around US $700 because I asked.

It takes an hour to swap out and test for a decent tech.

 

But, wasn't there a Korg parts place? Parts is Parts?

 

If you do manage to get one on your own,

I seem to remember there being a built in program in test mode

to match the keybed to the keyboard.

 

Good luck,

 

John

[Hoochie]

Tim,

 

http://www.guitar-parts.com/catalog/korg-kronos-73-keybed-50040007700

 

They have other stuff too.

 

John

[Markyboard]

Unfortunately, Parts is Parts has to play ball with Korg being their sole national distributor for parts. Probably why it shows as out of stock. Only thing I can suggest is see if you can arrange with SW to overnight delivery in both directions and repair so that turn-around is no more than 2-3 days. This would require tight coordination once they receive the keybed. Or...ask them for a loaner while you're waiting. I wouldn't try to "fix" the keybed unless I was sure of the cause and knew the fix would be permanent.

 

On a side note I remember wanting to replace my Korg CX-3 keybed years ago as my original had the lipped version where each key was 2 pieces glued together. It took months to get the new keybed from Japan; they sent me another lipped version the first time around - it was a hassle but eventually I received the unlipped version and successfully installed with no problem. I'm not sure why they changed their policy but I find it EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING when manufacturers won't sell parts directly to customers. I'm sure they have their reasons, but so do I when I consider buying their products or not. And don't get me started on schematics/service manuals. Maybe I'll start a new thread about this one of these days.

 

Sorry to vent and not be of much help here Tim - good luck.

[Song80s]

Okay need some practical advice.

 

 

I contacted SW about simply buying a new 73-key RH3 and installing it myself. It's a pretty easy, straightforward task. They checked with Korg, and told me Korg will only sell an entire action to an authorized service center, SW can't sell it to an end user.

 

 

Tim

 

Tim, how did you determine its pretty easy, straightforward ?

[bennyray]

Tim,

I had a Kronos X and after about a year the keybed was clanky and noisy. I called my tech which is authorized dealer and would help me out if anyway possible. They approved a new keybed for the Kronos X. Korg is pretty good about making things right sometimes after warranty. Especially since it was clear that the old Kronos had keybed problems.

[aronnelson]

I think Korg will help you out. I had a Yamaha P80 with defective keybed. They fixed it about 16 years later - way out of warranty. Pretty amazing.

[U.Honey]

Slightly off-topic but didn't the early models of Korg SV-1 also have the same RH3 keybed? I think I remember reading that they fixed it for a later models of SV-1. Is there a way to tell if a SV-1 has the 'problem-prone' keybed?

[Song80s]

Slightly off-topic but didn't the early models of Korg SV-1 also have the same RH3 keybed? I think I remember reading that they fixed it for a later models of SV-1. Is there a way to tell if a SV-1 has the 'problem-prone' keybed?

 

I think you are correct. Before I bought/ordered my Kronos over 5 year ago, sight unseen, I tried out the SV-1 RH3 to get a feel for that RH3

 

But I am unaware of any keybed problems on the SV-1. I did not research that board back then.

 

I have not had any problem with my Kronos 88, serial # 544.

 

The keybed issue is sort of ancient history and is attributed to a bad batch that found its way to assembly. Korg stepped up and solved every problem.

[timwat]

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions.

 

My unit is serial #188 from May 2011 (ship date). One of my favorite repair shops (Peter Miller @ CAE Sound in San Mateo) isn't an authorized Korg service center - but Third Ear Sound in Hayward is. Contacted them, they're going to contact Korg about keybed availability and hopefully we'll have more news soon.

 

Greg - I determined it's easy to remove the keybed when I first went under the hood.

 

Originally wanted to upgrade the RAM, possibly add a 2nd SSD. Doing any under-the-hood work requires you to take the bottom panel off. That's just a Philips screwdriver (and keeping track which of 2 types of screws goes where).

 

Inside, it's essentially a motherboard and related components, the keybed, and ribbon cabling. All held together by a few internal screws. When I installed additional RAM, it's pretty obvious how easy it was to remove the entire keybed.

 

This came in handy when I needed to replace broken keys earlier this year - I had two keys that had snapped the rear "tangs" that hold the back of the key in place - replacing the key is a little more difficult than on a Kurzweil (which I've also done), but pretty simple once you get the hang of it.

 

I'm guessing 80-90% of the weight of this beast is the keybed. It's a substantially built piece of metal frame, and each key is a metal lever (clad in plastic, with plastic pivots, pink rubber key contacts, etc.).

 

Anyway, I'm just sort of backed into a corner with my gig schedule. Very difficult to sacrifice weeks upon weeks of bench time.

 

I didn't want to have to ship the thing back to Sweetwater (on my dime, both ways), then wait for Korg to ship a replacement (they are, by all accounts, not great about keeping parts in inventory - leading to inordinate wait times...and I can attest to this when I ordered individual replacement keys).

 

Third Ear Sound seems sympathetic to my schedule dilemma, we'll see where we end up.

 

Tim

[aronnelson]

You have too many gigs! You have worn out the keyboard :-) Good problem to have!

No second keyboard that you can use for a week or so?

[burningbusch]

That sounds like a good solution Tim. I always pay the rush fee. Often, if the repair is obvious like a replacement it can be done in an hour or two. I've had good luck paying the man the rush fee, scheduling a time and just doing the 1 - 2 hour wait. When I had my K-73 keyboard replaced, it was under warranty and took about 1.5 hours total with testing. I just waited for it.

 

Busch.

[timwat]

Aron,

 

I know, good problems to have - and I realize how fortunate I am. As well as how quickly all the work can dry up! And I've been going back and forth on the 2nd keyboard idea.

 

For the more jazzy kinds of gigs, I can get by - it's the covers gigs where the Kronos has become an essential centerpiece.

 

I have all these combis built - Uptown Funk has handclaps, the synth, the vocal "dohs", the "Call the stretch" whistle, P.Y.T. has three zones full of stuff, I have some default 3 zone combis for the modern dance type stuff, Let's Dance with the woodblocks up top, stuff that would be difficult to approximate on my other boards.

 

Anyway, here's hoping the downtime is only a week or so locally - I can probably make that work if I time it correctly.

 

[Song80s]

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions.

 

My unit is serial #188 from May 2011 (ship date). One of my favorite repair shops (Peter Miller @ CAE Sound in San Mateo) isn't an authorized Korg service center -

 

2) but Third Ear Sound in Hayward is. Contacted them, they're going to contact Korg about keybed availability and hopefully we'll have more news soon.

 

Greg - I determined it's easy to remove the keybed when I first went under the hood.

 

1)Originally wanted to upgrade the RAM, possibly add a 2nd SSD. Doing any under-the-hood work requires you to take the bottom panel off. That's just a Philips screwdriver (and keeping track which of 2 types of screws goes where).

 

Inside, it's essentially a motherboard and related components, the keybed, and ribbon cabling. All held together by a few internal screws. When I installed additional RAM, it's

 

3)pretty obvious how easy it was to remove the entire keybed.

 

Anyway, I'm just sort of backed into a corner with my gig schedule. Very difficult to sacrifice weeks upon weeks of bench time.

 

I didn't want to have to ship the thing back to Sweetwater (on my dime, both ways), then wait for Korg to ship a replacement (they are, by all accounts, not great about keeping parts in inventory - leading to inordinate wait times...and I can attest to this when I ordered individual replacement keys).

 

Third Ear Sound seems sympathetic to my schedule dilemma, we'll see where we end up.

 

Tim

 

I hear your schedule.

 

1)I swapped out my ram, a straight forward task, maybe it took me 45 minutes, as I am careful. A power screwdriver is a big help with the 24 wood screws

 

2) It would be great if 3rd ear could get the replacement keybed on hand so you could arrange a 1 day turnaround with them.

 

3) I read you are confident on a DYI. I vaguely recall there is a service sub menu on the Kronos. There might be a system step in the service menu to recognize a replacement keybed. If you proceed with DYI, see if the tech at 3rd Ear can clarify what exactly you need to do beyond what you already know.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Some good ideas here. I would get a quote from an authorized repair shop to order the action and install. If the labor is too hot for you, ask if they'd be willing to order the RH3 and let you install on the down low for a bit more than their cost on the action.

 

You could also look for a K-73 that's shot on eBay and tear it apart for your frankenstein-like purposes.

[Song80s]

tim, make sure you have a current backup of all your data before having the work done.

[timwat]

So here's the latest: the tech just called back, says Korg will charge me $500+ for a new keybed. Why?

 

Because mine isn't in the batch recalled. He can tell already - because I have already looked at the keybed myself and verified it has PINK rubber key contacts. The original recalled units had GRAY rubber key contacts.

 

Instead, the tech wants to work with my gig schedule. Bring in the unit so he can take it apart and diagnose the problem(s). He suspects scored, torn, or otherwise damaged key contacts, but mentioned various detrius, key grease and other causes for key malfunctions are all possible as well.

 

If he can get it decent order without parts, it's probably a days worth of labor. If parts need to be ordered (e.g., some or all new key contacts), he'll button it all up and I can go off gigging until the new parts arrive.

 

So, it sounds like this guy is willing to help a brother out with a gig schedule. If it all works out I'm going to owe this guy a bottle of Lagavulin.

 

 

[Doerfler]

always a silver lining in a cloud, right, Tim?

[BluesKeys]

roland and yamaha have always shipped me parts to repair my boards. Don't know why Korg wouldn't. I would contact korg direct!

[Aussie_Chicago]

Slightly off-topic but didn't the early models of Korg SV-1 also have the same RH3 keybed? I think I remember reading that they fixed it for a later models of SV-1. Is there a way to tell if a SV-1 has the 'problem-prone' keybed?

 

I think you are correct. Before I bought/ordered my Kronos over 5 year ago, sight unseen, I tried out the SV-1 RH3 to get a feel for that RH3

 

But I am unaware of any keybed problems on the SV-1. I did not research that board back then.

 

I have not had any problem with my Kronos 88, serial # 544.

 

The keybed issue is sort of ancient history and is attributed to a bad batch that found its way to assembly. Korg stepped up and solved every problem.

 

Yes the sv1 has the same keybed , and it was one of the biggest complaints of this otherwise fine keyboard. The early sv1 ( red ) had the crappy rh3 , the newer ones have the improved keybed. Easiest way to tell is their is a gap between B and C , E and F . Also their usually is a sticker that says RH3 made in Japan on the top key which is the newer action.

[Bill Spencer]

Hey, Tim-

 

Try Musician's Service Center in San Jose. They've been good to me.

[timwat]

So Steve over at Third Ear has had a chance to open up and look. His diagnosis - all the key contacts (the pink rubber things) are badly scored, other than that the action appears all in place and working fine.

 

He's going to order a full set of key contacts from Korg on Monday, and we'll go from there.

 

Hopefully I'm back and in business ASAP - but Korg isn't known for fast shipment of parts like this. It's out of Third Ear's hands - so we'll see how fast this ends up.

[Markyboard]

You may find this link of interest as it sounds like your exact issue.

 

Also looks like Parts is Parts has some available but not for the whole keybed.

 

Key Contact Parts

 

 

Edit: On second thought maybe its these (since you said pink):

 

Pink Contact Parts

[timwat]

Got the Kronos back from Third Ear Sound in Hayward. Steve in repairs is aces - I can recommend him without reservation if anyone in the Bay Area needs gear repaired. He's extremely knowledgeable, experienced, and deals with players as a player himself. Very impressed.

 

He ended up replacing all the pink key contacts, and showed me how badly scored the original ones were. Will run it through its paces later this evening, but even set up in the shop it seems to play more evenly, and all the rough weird inconsistencies seem gone for now. It's no CP4, but I'm very happy to have it back for Saturday's big corporate gig.

 

Thumbs up on Third Ear Sound in Hayward!

[Markyboard]

Cool- glad you got it resolved quickly Tim. You might want to consider purchasing some spare contacts.

[ElmerJFudd]

good news. at least we know of one real scenario where an original RH3 action was salvaged.

[Moonglow]

Hey Tim, as a fellow Kronos owner with only one clicky key (as of the moment) are you more of a heavy-handed player (like me)?

[timwat]

I probably fall on the heavier side of playing overall. I'm certainly no shrinking violet.

 

I'm a pretty physical showman, no matter if it's a jazz gig or a funk jam. Standing, windmills, playing with my knees and elbows - no one's ever accused me of not bringing visual energy to the gig.

 

So while I'm not a beater, my boards get a workout. I eventually wore out the action on my old Casio PX3 before I sold it (at a deep discount, to some friends who wanted to start their son out on something inexpensive).

[The Real MC]

I have noticed the varying quality of actions on SV-1 boards, which was a deal-killer for me. Too many DPs have action that is much stiffer than a real piano and is unplayable. I happen to have a Korg home DP for practicing with the "RH3" label on the top C and the action feels good - I'll have to check for the "Made in Japan" text on the label.

 

I'm a pretty physical showman, no matter if it's a jazz gig or a funk jam. Standing, windmills, playing with my knees and elbows - no one's ever accused me of not bringing visual energy to the gig.

 

You should work as final quality inspector at a synth or DP maker. There's a LOT of boards that would never get past you. I am just sick of the junk toys out there.