Kronos questions

[richforman]

As I learn my way around my new axe, hope you don't mind if I use you guys as a resource in addition to the manuals and video tutorials, for the many questions I know I'm going to keep coming up with. I have a head start from having for years owned and used a Korg Trinity, and many of the O/S concepts and even the underlying code, seem to be the same now; but there's tons of things I'm still going to be scratching my head over. These few questions are after just my first night of starting to program some combi's and set-list slots for my gig this weekend.

 

question #1 (I knew how to do this on the Trinity but it seems different on the Kronos). How do you (if you can), within a Combi, just adjust the amp envelope ADSR values for an individual track (without editing the actual Program itself)? Is it the "vector eg" page?

 

question #2 - this may be an area where I don't even have a good enough grasp of the basics to be asking questions, but maybe someone will take pity on me. In using workstations for years, I've never been able to figure out much about programming effects and modulation routing, that's always been intimidating and mysterious to me (man I love the dedicated reverb and delay knobs etc. on my VR-09). I have usually been restricted by my limitations to finding a preset that's already set up to work the way I want for a particular song. Anyway, can you walk me through the steps to do something like this on a Kronos - let's say, in a combi, for a particular track, set things up so that maybe Knob 5 for instance, controls the amount of reverb on a track? This answer would include both how to make reverb available in the combi, and to associate it with a track and with a surface control. Or (separate sub-question), again, the envelope attack amount? I understand that the first couple knobs are *usually* dedicated in many programs to filter cutoff and resonance and that's great, but I haven't figured out much beyond that yet.

 

3) Any recommendations for additional sound libraries I should download right off the bat, either free or commercial? I'll note that I am already very much in love with the instrument for the quantity and quality of amazing sounds, so many programmed for specific cover songs hitting just about everything I could think of, that it offers right out of the box. But I'm sure there are tons more goodies I'd get a lot of value of.

 

4) Is it possible to give the Set Lists custom names, or are you stuck with "Set List 01," etc? Wasn't obvious to me how to change it.

 

5) This one I think I know - I'll include it to show that I have been trying to my own work somewhat! - now, I want to set my Kronos-based live rig like Jimbo in the other thread has, to use it as my sole sound source, with some parts in a combi controlled by a second keyboard transmitting on a single channel. I understand that the key to this is to set all the parts I want controlled externally, to the same MIDI channel (as the other keyboard is transmitting on, obviously) and use their Key Ranges to control which notes play which sounds. What I wasn't completely sure of (but I think I have since come to realize), was how to set it so that those same parts DON'T play in response to playing the Kronos' keyboard in those ranges, if you don't want them to. Having done some extra reading in the manual today at work, I guess the answer is to make sure that the channel I want to receive the external notes on, is not the one designated as the GCh, global channel, on the Kronos; the source should still be set to "Int" but in that case they won't play locally, is that right?

 

Thank you for indulging me gentlemen, lots more to come.

 

 

[Sven Golly]

TL;DR, but #4 is easy. When you select "Write Set List", there's a "T" next to the name of the set list. This is also true when writing almost anything else to memory or the HDD. Press the "T", you get the edit page to rename it to whatever you want.

[richforman]

Thanks Sven and actually - are you sure? - it seemed to me that while it's there for the Write functions for the other objects, combi, program - the "Write Set List" function did *not* seem to me to offer the renaming option. Maybe I missed it, quite possible.

[Sven Golly]

Thanks Sven and actually - are you sure? - it seemed to me that while it's there for the Write functions for the other objects, combi, program - the "Write Set List" function did *not* seem to me to offer the renaming option. Maybe I missed it, quite possible.

 

Yep, just checked it on the Kronos 2, v3.0.3, but this has been consistent through the entire line, AFAIK.

[CEB]

Yep I do it all the time. Especially handy in Programs and Combis that you want to use more than once for multiple tunes. Add the patch to setlist then click on the display Text Field (T line) and this is how the titles are displayed in Setlist mode on the Top Line of the box. For me it is always the name of the song. In Combi and Program mode there is only one instance and it is called by it's original name which appears below the T field in Setlist Mode.

 

All my setlist I name [band Name] [show Type] [Date]. Show Type is usually Festival or Venue. Festivals are things like Fairs or all ages shows that is all PG rated material. Venues are bars and night clubs where the materially can get a wee bit risque.

 

Here is SetList slot 11. I named it Mix SEP 2015 BG.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/1AF2A750-B126-4E5A-B5D4-09F83660A355_zpsuv6cvzpe.jpg

[richforman]

Thanks CEB. I did figure out how to name the Set List *SLOTS* as I add programs or combi's into them (sometimes keeping the program or combi's own name; sometimes renaming it to give it more context in the Set List I'm adding it to or just identify the song it's to be used in).

 

What I wasn't sure of is whether you could also name the whole Set List itself; you and Sven say yes, so I'll be checking it out again tonight.

 

Okay anybody on the other questions?

 

[JimboK]

Okay, I can help on some of these:

 

#1: I just make programs that have the proper ADSR settings and save them and the make them part of my combi's. A bit more time intensive then a change at the combi level and to be honest, I'm not sure you can make those changes at combi level.

 

#2: Over my head. I do very little complex routing. But you should be able to assign almost anything to almost anything

 

#3: I did The samples of the CP-80 that was done by Busch I think. Those are awesome. It also seems the Funk and Soul Brass is pretty darn key for a lot of things. Other then that I work off sounds in the K or bring in samples for things I cannot do myself (mainly sound effects, weird intros, etc.)

 

#4: 100% positive you can edit setlist names. When you go into the save option, you will be prompted to designate the setlist slot and the name will have a little "T" next to it. Click on that to bring up a naming window. I name all my setlists.

 

#5: The Kronos key's themselves only go to global (midi 1) channel. So as long as you set the other board(s) to another channel (I use 15) the kronos will never play those programs. So you can make terribly complicated routing assignments with easy across mulitple boards. It's fun.

 

Now the real challenge is when you try to use your Expression pedal to affect the volume of those other boards. (You have to use Karma for that) or when you have to use your sustain pedal to mute and unmute individual programs in a combi (Thanks to Just Dan for teaching me that one!)

 

Anyway, I'm no stud at this thing but I do use it quite a bit and have learned a trick or two. PM me if you want to talk in person. I find solutions come faster when talking on the phone sometimes.

[CEB]

Effects.

 

What I do is limited compared to the total capabilities available. If there are effects on a preset I want used in the combi then there is function you use when initializing the combi that copies the effects from the preset. After that I do all my effects from Combi mode.

 

Go to the MFX/TFX tab. Then go to the Routing screen and select your effects.

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/K2%20combi%209_zpspvsdmvae.jpg

 

Then goto the corresponding MFX or TFX screen to edit the chosen effects. What appears in the MFX or TFX screen will change depending on the selected effect. Compression, phaser, verb etc....

 

You have some complex chaining capabilities I've only used once to setup side-chain compression. One of Qui' tutorials and a little bit of luck got me started on that.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

 

 

[Sven Golly]

What I wasn't sure of is whether you could also name the whole Set List itself; you and Sven say yes, so I'll be checking it out again tonight.

 

Okay anybody on the other questions?

 

Sigh, eventually you'll learn to trust that I fact-check 99.9% of the stuff that I post before I post it.

 

But, for the doubters:

 

Click here, select "Write Set List":

 

Press the "T" to the left of the Set List name:

 

Enter your desired name:

 

In this example, I merely added " 1" to the existing name. You can also set your target memory location (I changed it to 003 in this photo):

 

Voila, your newly named Set List

[JimboK]

Rule #1: Doubt Sven at your own Peril!

 

lol

 

[J. Dan]

 

1) I believe the way to do it would be in the PROGRAM, in the envelope settings, assign a specific CC to control whatever you want to control, then on the control page on the combi, assign the knob to that CC#.

 

question #2 - You're probably best of just using the soft knobs on the screen on the IFX routing page for this, but if you want to assign hard knobs to this stuff, then go into the effect and next to the wet/dry mix, you can assign a controller to wet/dry. Same as above, pick a CC to control it, then in the control section assign a knob to that CC. I regularly assign an Insert effect to a part and then use my swell pedal for wet/dry. Works great for volume control on an one part of a layer using a preamp IFX.

 

3) Lots of good free ones....the Organ patches that came with the Verson 3 software...although maybe those come preloaded on the new Kronos'. Anything BurningBusch has done is excellent.

 

4) Already been answered - when you save it, you give it a name.

 

5) You got it....local keyboard controls Gch, send the other keyboard to any other MIDI channel. As mentioned, you can use Karma to route controllers on the Gch to destinations on your other channel.

 

[richforman]

Thanks guys. I'm still a little scared to go onto those effects pages but I'll give it a go. CEB, on your screenshot, I take it that the effects you pick are applied to the whole output, I still need to figure out if there's a way to apply them to specific parts within the combi. And I don't see anything there that looks like it has to do with being able to control the amount of the effect, or maybe it would be the values for a specific parameter of the effect, with the knobs. But I'll dive bravely in. (If anyone reading has any hints I'm all ears!) Again, what I envision is just something simple like twisting a knob to apply more or less 'verb to a particular track. Maybe it can't be done but I doubt that. Thanks again, I enjoy just chatting about all this with you guys.

[Sven Golly]

Rule #1: Doubt Sven at your own Peril!

 

lol

 

Damn straight.

[J. Dan]

The effects are pretty straightforward and very powerful once you get familiar with them. The steps go something like this:

 

first on the IFX routing page, each part can be assigned to L/R in which case you have send levels for each of the 2 MFX, or can be routed to a specific IFX, in which case there's another page where you can set the destination of that IFX....either to another IFX (you can chain several of them) or to L/R, in which case you have your 2 MFX send levels, or to a specific output (aux outs).

 

That's the routing. On that page that shows all the IFX, you select what effect is in each slot, then you have a page for each of them to set the parameters. The other page Ed showed you is for the 2 MFX and 2 TFX to set their levels and types, then they have pages for the parameters.

 

The only thing you really need to understand is that this is where all of the audio routing happens. You might not think that the IFX routing page is where you'd actually route one track directly to an Aux out, but it is.

[burningbusch]

#1. There is no way to do this. The combi in the Kronos brings together very different engines and some simply don't have AMP EGs. You would do this at the program level.

 

#2 FXs are INSERT (IFX) or SENDS (MFXs) or MASTER INSERTS (TFX). You will see tabs at the bottom right with these designations. To add a reverb, best to add it to one of the two MFX slots, e.g. MFX1. Now increase the RETURN1 to 127. Click on the TAB MFX1 and adjust parameters to your liking. At the bottom you'll see OUPUT and WET/DRY mix. In the SOURCE slot change it to KNOB #5 and AMOUNT to a reasonable number (Hint: if the WET/DRY Value is 20:80, setting the amount to 20 will providing extra reverb when turn to the right and 0 reverb when turned fully counter-clockwise.

 

#4 Any time you do a WRITE operation you are presented with a dialog box. The top section allows to you change the name by clicking on the T. The bottom is the destination as to where it's going to be written.

 

#5 I think you've got the general idea.

 

One tip that should make everyone's life a little easier on the Kronos is to USE THE SCREEN. Particularly on the Program Main Screen you have a graphic of the Instrument. By clicking on the FILTER you will be directed to the FILTER PAGE. Same with everything else. It can save wondering through the various tabs.

 

Busch.

[CEB]

I apply everything to the whole combi. Else I create what I want at the program level. That is just the way I work.

In the individual MFX and TFX screens is where you set your wet/dry mixes.

 

What you want to do is setup your insert effects in IFX. Then apply to each track from there.

 

This might help some. Goto 3:47 when he starts adding effects to the combi.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

[richforman]

Thanks a million JD. Very helpful. That gives me a big head start on the question of applying (routing? the terminology still confuses me) effects to individual tracks. I'll try to take it from there. Any advice on the other part of the question, which deals with programming real-time control of the effects, (at least their send levels, if not various parameter values) using the knobs?

[CEB]

Question 1.

 

I've used the Timbre EQ screen or a IFX preamp or EQ as a quick channel boost if I think I screwed up a combi zone and do not have enough headroom to get it loud enough but this is a 'Oops I screwed this up gig fix. To do it right it needs to be fixed at the program level. It sort of has the effect of boosting the amp level but it doesn't sound as good.

[richforman]

You might misunderstand my question Ed - if that last comment was replying to it - when I said "send levels" I was referring to the effects' send levels, meaning (if I'm using the terminology right) e.g. more or less reverb on a track; rather than referring to the volume of the tracks. (I think I get that you can control that in real time with the sliders in mixer mode.)

[J. Dan]

Thanks a million JD. Very helpful. That gives me a big head start on the question of applying (routing? the terminology still confuses me) effects to individual tracks. I'll try to take it from there. Any advice on the other part of the question, which deals with programming real-time control of the effects, (at least their send levels, if not various parameter values) using the knobs?

 

Send levels respond to CC's 91 and 93, so you could assign knobs to those controllers. The problem is that then it will set all of the sends on the Gch to the same level. You're better off using the screen for send level. As I said, if you want to control Wet/Dry instead, you can assign different controllers to the individual effects. You could do it as IFX instead of MFX. So in otherwords, if you had 2 parts that you wanted to control independently, but the same reverb - you could assign one to IFX 1 and the other to IFX 2, make both IFX the same reverb with the same settings, but assign different CC's to Wet/Dry.

[J. Dan]

#1. There is no way to do this. The combi in the Kronos brings together very different engines and some simply don't have AMP EGs. You would do this at the program level.

 

I do it in the program as well. But as I mentioned above, you CAN assign controllers to things like attack and release times (in the program of course) so that you can control them from a combi. I have a patch in a combi that I use my swell pedal to control release time, for instance.

[richforman]

Thanks again JD - now I'm more clear on what you meant - use the IFX page live at the gig to adjust the send levels on screen. That makes sense. Or yes, control Wet/Dry is probably what I want to do in the scenario (a specific song) that prompted this whole question for me. All very helpful.

 

Any chance you could write up a really "for dummies" step by step walkthrough of how to accomplish what you describe in your last post - assigning controls like the swell pedal to things like attack and release time in a program?

 

That kinda sucks about not being able to control the amp eg's in the combi, although I see the sense of the explanation about the different synth engines. It's a step backwards like I mentioned from my old Trinity, where, within a combi, I'm pretty sure you could set the A, D, S and R values right along with the transpose amount, volume level, midi channel, and key/velocity ranges for each track.

 

One more question that I'm not sure anybody will be able to help with, it might be specific to my Kronos, which I bought used. When I experimented with modifying a program and wanting to save it, went into Write, it didn't allow me to choose some of the program banks, even the User banks, some of them were disabled/greyed-out (the ones that I wanted to write to, which are currently filled with just initialized programs; UG and UH I think?) and it only wanted to let me write to I think UA or UB, which I didn't want to do, there were no empty slots there. I have no idea why it didn't offer me all those banks as options for writing to. Anyone know anything I can check?

[J. Dan]

I'm out of town sitting in my Hotel room, so I don't have my Kronos in front of me, but I'll do my best. Specifically the example I gave.... in the program, go to the Amp Envelope page (note that not all engines have this, in my case I was using the AL-1 engine). Somewhere near the release value is both and AMS assignment (which is the modulation mixer) and another place where you can select a controller and the amount for it to effect the value (you can select positive or negative values) Select foot pedal and you can use the pedal right then and there to test it out and adjust. When you get it the way you like it, save it. Now in a combi it will just work.

 

Not all Engines can be saved to all banks. I'm not sure exactly why. But HD-1 can only be saved to certain banks, and some of the VA engines can only be saved in certain banks, etc. It should spell this out somewhere in the manual or maybe google it, or Busch may chime in

[JimboK]

You will see greyed out options in banks as each program type is either an HD (sample base) or EXi (engine based) program. You cannot save HD in EXi blocks and vice versa. So just use another bank (U-G for instance is HD I think but the U-AA bank is EXi).

 

[burningbusch]

I'm out of town sitting in my Hotel room, so I don't have my Kronos in front of me, but I'll do my best.

 

It's not the Kronos, but it's similar and it's always there for you.

 

https://www.karma-lab.com/oasys/gui/OASYS_Virtual_GUI2.html

 

Busch.

[jerrythek]

For question #1 - ADSR/envelope adjustments... you need to look at the Tone Adjust Page available in every mode. It's a setting, or mode for the control surface to the left of the display. Here you can assign many different parameters to the knobs, switches and sliders of the control surface.

 

This CAN be used to adjust either Filter ADSR, Amp ADSR, or both combined. Yes, each engine in Program mode have vastly more sophisticated envelope shapes and types, but this Tone Adjust control can often be used to make the simple tweaks you need. Certainly Attack and Release are easy to do, again of either the Filter, Amp or both. But there are times when I will use it to take the Sustain level down to 00, and then use the decay parameter to shape a sound to turn it from a sustaining one to a shorter, decaying shape.

 

Tone adjust is a very powerful tool for tweaking a Program within Combi or Sequencer Mode to become something slightly, or very different. The programmers used it a lot on creating the Combis. The advantage is that the changes are stored in the Combi, or Song, so you are not always using up another Program slot for your variation. The disadvantage is that it is stored in the Combi, or Song, so it is not as easily accessible to reuse for another sound. (You can copy a Timbre from a Combi to another Combi, and the system will ask, "With Tone Adjust Settings?" so you can use them again.)

 

And for each type of engine you will see many of the engine-specific parameters available so you are not just forcing simple synthesis controls onto a complex engine - you CAN work with the parameters of the engine itself.

 

An easy example, is that Tone Adjust is how you get the drawbar control of the CX3 engine onto the sliders.

 

:-)

 

You all need to look into this and take advantage of it!

 

Regards,

 

Jerry

[jerrythek]

For effect control via knobs, note that in ALL the factory voicing Knob 8 is always used for Reverb depth. Knob 7 is always used for another important effect control, usually Chorus or Delay. So if you Copy a Program into a Combi with its associated effects these knob assignments will already be made for you.

 

Jerry

[Song80s]

For effect control via knobs, note that in ALL the factory voicing Knob 8 is always used for Reverb depth. Knob 7 is always used for another important effect control, usually Chorus or Delay. So if you Copy a Program into a Combi with its associated effects these knob assignments will already be made for you.

 

Jerry

 

Thats good to know , Jerry. You seem to know the Kronos very well ( joking around)

[richforman]

THANK YOU ALL!!!!! You answered every one of my questions, clearly and practically, in a way I could never have gotten from the manuals alone. You guys are super knowledgeable and helpful, this forum is the absolute best! Now I'm home from work and just getting back on to the Kronos for the rest of the night to explore and apply all of this.

[jerrythek]

For effect control via knobs, note that in ALL the factory voicing Knob 8 is always used for Reverb depth. Knob 7 is always used for another important effect control, usually Chorus or Delay. So if you Copy a Program into a Combi with its associated effects these knob assignments will already be made for you.

 

Jerry

 

Thats good to know , Jerry. You seem to know the Kronos very well ( joking around)