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Balancing Keyboard Volume with the Rest of the Band


BbAltered

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Stage mix: you could end up having to bring gear for it aswell as your self.

Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM-RPX, HX3/Drawbar control, MSI Z97

MPower/4790K, Lynx Aurora 8/MADI/AES16e, OP-X PRO, Ptec, Komplete.

Ashley MX-206. future MOTU M64 RME Digiface Dante for Mon./net

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Seems that KB players are way more respectful of the band environment than guitar players.

 

I have noticed this as well. I wonder why it is?

J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier

The collected works of Scott Joplin

Ray Charles Genius plus Soul

Charlie Parker Omnibook

Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life

Weather Report Mr. Gone

 

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I have decided I want what all guitarists already have: a lead piano channel. How wonderful to simply tap once and have the perfect cutting-thru volume for single note runs, and tap again to get back to your comping behind singer volume.

 

A Hammond allows this by having two keyboards that you can set up for "lead" and "comp" sounds.

J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier

The collected works of Scott Joplin

Ray Charles Genius plus Soul

Charlie Parker Omnibook

Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life

Weather Report Mr. Gone

 

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I adjust volumes on all my keyboards all through the night.

 

As I read this thread, what I'm really hearing is a PA/monitor problem.

 

And no one has bagged on the drummer being too loud yet...isn't that always the real problem?

You want me to start this song too slow or too fast?

 

Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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I have decided I want what all guitarists already have: a lead piano channel. How wonderful to simply tap once and have the perfect cutting-thru volume for single note runs, and tap again to get back to your comping behind singer volume.

 

A Hammond allows this by having two keyboards that you can set up for "lead" and "comp" sounds.

 

A clean boost pedal is handy for some contexts, for sure. However, I rarely find I'm heading into a solo after the kind of silence that allows for truly "clean" boost--meaning, it usually ends up boosting the end of a comping pattern as well, which sounds clumsy/clunky. So if I'm boosting my own volume, I prefer a gradual pedal--or just a manual turn of the volume knob, which is always at the same "resting" spot when I'm not soloing, so is easy to return to after a solo. (On my Vk-8, which doesn't have much tactile help for knowing where the volume knob is pointing, I just taped a tiny lump of gaffe tape along the "ridge" so I can always feel the correct position with my fingers.)

 

In that vein, if no one's mentioned the FC7 expression pedal, it might be worth looking into it as a volume pedal. It keeps about 20% spring-loaded into the top of the range, so you can push up to the top for a solo and just let it return to stasis afterward--or feather it as needed when you comp, if a patch turns out to be too soft or too loud.

 

However, you will lose a friend in the soundman pretty quick if you do too much knob-turning over the course of the set. So I generally send my mixer's "Mains" to FOH, use "Control Room" outs for my stage monitor, and ONLY ride the CR volume if possible to keep my stage mix working for me, without affecting the signal FOH is getting. I usually tell the soundman that's what I'm doing, because the good will of saying, "I am never going to touch the signal I send you, any changes I make will only be for my stage monitor" goes a long way toward good treatment through the rest of the night.

 

Plus, then you can still tweak if necessary and he will forgive it as a patch inconsistency. :)

 

 

 

 

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One issue no one here has touched on is that guitar is very percussive and peaky compared to a keyboards dynamics. A guitar goes from a relativly low level to a high level on EACH strum . A keyboard on each chord hit or single note doesnt go as low as a guitar. Why does this matter? The way your ear hears logrithmicly makes a guitar seem louder when on average over time it may be equal in decibels to the keys. What happens then is the keyboard player always feels buried until he is too loud but always struggles to find the sweet spot. Its a dynamic range issue. Solution? Try all the suggestions already offered earlier inthe thread. I got nothing new there.

FunMachine.

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I got nothing new there.

Pretty comprehensive advice in this thread. Come to think of it, one additional thing I've seen mentioned in similar threads is the idea that Mr. Guitar Player might not realize how loud he's actually playing if his amp is sitting right on the stage floor, thus bathing his feet (and the audience's ears) in sweet sweet guitar tones. If he could be persuaded to try an amp stand, maybe that would also help him get a better sense of relative volume levels in the rhythm section.

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Something to think about....some of the best guitar players I know manage their volume with the volume knob....it's totally a practical approach.

 

Wes

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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I would like to hear how others manage this challenge.

 

You´re talking "single board" (DP) and acoustic piano patches ...

 

Use the Volume Control of your keyboard ! Easy as pie.

 

Multiple keyboard rigs,- probably including racked MIDI modules and/or desktop devices,- is a different story, is complex and requires a new thread.

 

For both, single keyboard or multiple keyboard rigs, I don´t use expression-pedals for volume control,- except the organ.

 

I use expression pedals on all of my boards for different purposes like wah-wah, filter sweeps, modulation depth, ringmod frequency sweeps, OSC-Sync sweeps and so on.

 

A.C.

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I can assume that is why I would use one pedal for my mix out and another plugged in a board

that is midi looped with local off (if needed) to send midi where ever. could set up a pedal on my

BCR and selectively control levels instead of mix (one few or all)

Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM-RPX, HX3/Drawbar control, MSI Z97

MPower/4790K, Lynx Aurora 8/MADI/AES16e, OP-X PRO, Ptec, Komplete.

Ashley MX-206. future MOTU M64 RME Digiface Dante for Mon./net

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You don't use expression pedals for strings, all? If that's true, you're missing out!

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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Come to think of it, one additional thing I've seen mentioned in similar threads is the idea that Mr. Guitar Player might not realize how loud he's actually playing if his amp is sitting right on the stage floor, thus bathing his feet (and the audience's ears) in sweet sweet guitar tones. If he could be persuaded to try an amp stand, maybe that would also help him get a better sense of relative volume levels in the rhythm section.

 

Ha Ha!! You are exactly right that the guitarist is not correctly hearing his amp because he places it on the floor. I have gone thru this a couple gazillion times with guitarists and the conversation is always the same:

Me: You're not hearing your guitar amp fully because you have the speakers pointed at your knees. Why don't you put your amp so that the speakers are up and pointed at your ears?

Guitarist: I've tried that and it doesn't sound right. The cabinet has to be on the floor for it to sound right to me.

 

My take-away is that when the guitarist actually hears the sound their amps put out, they don't like it. Rather than adjusting the EQ and tone controls to get the sound they want to hear from their speakers, they instead opt for having the speakers on the floor and playing overly loud to get the sound they want. This of course is torture for everyone else on the stage.

 

 

J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier

The collected works of Scott Joplin

Ray Charles Genius plus Soul

Charlie Parker Omnibook

Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life

Weather Report Mr. Gone

 

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Our guitar player sets his amp on the floor instead of angled up so all the sound is at his ankles & he's a tall guy. He's been told countless times to turn down but the band leader loves him so it is what it is.
You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light.
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re: guitar--That's a major joy of IEMs. My biggest problem with guitar now is it being too quiet, making the tunes sound a bit empty...but it's a cross I bear. I used to set the volume a bit low in my monitor mix in preparation for the inevitable "volume continues to creep up throughout the night". He still uses wedges and I firmly believe that as your ears get more fatigued the tendency is to keep turning up.

 

Now we are using a QSC touchmix console, so I can control my mix from my iphone. I just bump him up and down as needed (along with anything else, but that's the main instrument I mess with). It's like Glenda the good witch of north has come to my gigs and sprinkled some happy dust on me.

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Setting your volume control to one setting is not a realistic means of making music. In addition to the other players in a band, a very important aspect of playing live music is DYNAMICS. A Band that plays every song at the same volume gets old fast. A band has to keep their volume down so the singer can be heard, or if you play in a jazz group with no vocalist, so the instrument that carries the melody should be above the other instruments.

 

Dynamics allows you to be expressive, playing your parts that need to stand out loud enough to be heard, and then backing off so your volume blends with the rest of the band. Use a VOLUME Pedal. That way you can keep both hands on they KB and play naturally.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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