Bachus Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Looking for a workstation for a friend... That cant afford a Kronos, Montage or a Nord stage.... Requirements... - needs to function as a stage piano... - needs to function as a synth... - good onboard arpeggio's... - needs to function as a masterkeyboard for Mainstage So does anyone have any handson experience with one or more of these units? (Or does anyone have any other advise ) Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha Tyros5 (76), Integra 7, macbook pro/mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 FA09 I presume is a typo (you mean Roland's FA08 or FA06). What do you mean by "good onboard arpeggios"? - Good as in - user-programmable? or something else? The distinguishing characteristic of a workstation is having a multi-track sequencer built into the unit - as such I'm not sure the Nord Stage really qualifies, although it has an External section to serve as a controller. Does your friend require the built-in sequencer abilities? Does your friend just need arpeggio up/down/random or actual programmability? What's approximate budget? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 It is a tough call. The best synth (FA-08) of the group is the worst controller. The arpeggiator is decent. I didn't like the Krome at all. MOXF8 sort of does everything OK. I don't know Mainstage. If all the controller setups can be done on the laptop then I guess I would lean toward the FA. If you need a true 4 zone controller I would lean toward the MOXF. If synth and Arp requirements are very very minimal and controller /piano requirements are major I might consider the MP7 or the Artis. I got a ton of mileage out of the S90XS. Maybe you can find a one. Last I looked a new one is still kind of pricey. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvchiclets Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The MOXF and FA both are dedicated ASIO interfaces as well as USB Midi, so using Mainstage will be much easier. The output from Mainstage will pass through the MOXF or FA's outputs. The FA is a "simple" midi controller, with some customization parameters available for you to tweak. The MOXF uses Yamaha's MOXF Remote Editor which you can use to make your own controller templates. (It looks very powerful, but I have never attempted to use it in my 5 years of owning an MOX!) The Krome will control anything via MIDI, but nothing more elaborate than that. All three keyboards have on-board arpeggios. The MOXF is the most elaborate of the three, with it's "Motif" arpeggios. All have very good synth sounds, but the FA series is the most powerful and plentiful for synth sounds...that alone is worth its price for being a plentiful virtual analog synth. The MOXF comes second and the Krome comes third for synth sounds. (IMHO) Electro 5, NI Kontrol S61/49, MX49, PC3, Rev2, Prologue, Pro3, Juno-DS, Mopho Keys, SE02, drums, tons of synth software, guitars, amps, and pedals...help me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Looking for a workstation for a friend... That cant afford a Kronos, Montage or a Nord stage.... Requirements... - needs to function as a stage piano... - needs to function as a synth... - good onboard arpeggio's... - needs to function as a masterkeyboard for Mainstage So does anyone have any handson experience with one or more of these units? (Or does anyone have any other advise ) Stage piano: Any will do it. Krome probably has the weakest piano action of the three. Synth: All have editable synth sounds in them. The Roland has their "SuperNatural synth" which is a bit closer to traditional VA than the others. Arpeggiators: don't know Master Keyboard for Mainstage: Any MIDI keyboard can trigger notes, so the question is, what else do you want it to do? Do you want it to be able to send Program Change messages? Do you want a certain number of footswitches or pedals? What kind of pitch/mod controls do you like? (Yamaha has wheels, Korg has joystick, Roland has lever.) Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 And in my humble opinion... if we are talking fun factor and "bang for the buck," in this order: Roland FA-08 Korg Krome MOXF When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 All three are good keyboards in my view and could do the job. The Krome is the one I'm most familiar with, so I'll restrict my commentary to that. Biggest point in its favour is it sounds amazing and has very deep editing potential. Once you get used to the UI you can fly through the menus thanks to the touch screen - this makes it a pretty handy live weapon too. Biggest detractor is the action is difficult to like. The weighted action is slow and heavy and the synth action is squishy and unresponsive. On the synth-action version the keys hinge in a very strange place which make it hard to control your key velocity. I find it very hard to enjoy playing piano/EP on either action despite how good it sounds and personally would not use it as a stage piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I use the Arpeggiator on the FA-06. It has its own dedicated menu access button. It is pretty flexible and easy to use. Handy for things like 'Edge of Glory'. I personally think the Roland is easier to custom program. The Yamaha has some neat Arp presets though. If you want to quickly setup your own arps on the fly I would pick Roland. If you are a preset user I would probably pick the MOXF. There are also some killer Arp presets on the S90XS. [video:youtube] [video:youtube] "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachus Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 We still havent made a decision yet, tough we added the PX-5s and the Kawai MP7 to the possibilities list... So far we came to this list.... Piano sound and feel -Kawai MP7 -Casio PX-5S -Roland FA08 -Yamaha MOXF -Korg Krome Synthsound and feel -Roland FA08 -Casio PX-5S -Korg Krome -Yamaha MOXF -Kawai MP7 Arpeggio's -Yamaha MOXF -Casio PX-5S -Korg Krome -Roland FA08 -Kawai MP7 (non at all) Master keyboard functionality and onboard controllers -Casio PX-5S -MOXF -Roland FA08 -Kawai MP7 -Korg Krome user friendlyness(added this as a much needed feature, my friend aint no technician but a great piano player) -Kawai MP7 -Roland FA08 -Korg Krome -Yamaha MOXF -Casio PX-5S When it comes to sound, they all sound great, tough each has its own strengths... But its allways nice doing research before buying.. Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha Tyros5 (76), Integra 7, macbook pro/mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Personally, for piano sound, I'd put the MOXF higher up on the list, especially considering the alternate sample sets you can load if you have the flash expansion installed. For synth, if you care about mono synth lead lines, it may be worth noting that the Casio doesn't have a mono mode. Master keyboard/controller comparisons can be complicated. But Casio, does have 10 surface controls vs. Yamaha's 8, but Yamaha includes an expression pedal jack (programmable) and Casio doesn't. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachus Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 Personally, for piano sound, I'd put the MOXF higher up on the list, especially considering the alternate sample sets you can load if you have the flash expansion installed. For synth, if you care about mono synth lead lines, it may be worth noting that the Casio doesn't have a mono mode. Master keyboard/controller comparisons can be complicated. But Casio, does have 10 surface controls vs. Yamaha's 8, but Yamaha includes an expression pedal jack (programmable) and Casio doesn't. Thank you, all very good points, yamaha definately has the expandabillity, and not having mono mode definately puts a different pov on the px5s... May i asume you favor the Moxf? I ranked the MOXF lower then the Roland and the Casio because of the GHS keybed, somehow i never really commected to it, despite several tries... Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha Tyros5 (76), Integra 7, macbook pro/mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 May i asume you favor the Moxf? I think the MOXF generally beats the Casio except for action, price, size, travel weight. Those things are not insignificant, though. But yeah, I'd say the Yamaha generally sounds better and has a better interface both for setup and for live performance. It depends what your priorities are. I also think that the Kawai MP7 generally beats the Casio except for price, size, travel weight. Obviously, you may need a particular feature that one has that another doesn't, I'm just talking about them overall. I have almost no experience with the Roland. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rou Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Maybe a two-keyboard setup can also be considered by your friend... 1) PX-5s (24 lbs @ $999) + FA-06 (13 lbs @ $1199), 88-key + 61-key 2) PX-5s (24 lbs @ $999) + MOXF6 (16 lbs @ $1199), 88-key + 61-key The overall price of the above setup is still lower than the asking price of an 88-key Kronos workstation, Nord, Montage or Kurzweil Forte. The combined weight of the 1st option approximates the weight of the FA-08 (88-key) while the 2nd option has a combined weight of 40 lbs though. Sonar X3e Dimension Pro EWQL-SO Gold Pianoteq 5.3+Bluthner PX-5S FA-06 SLMKII Graphite 49 AAS LL EP4 GS-2 Forte 4 Audiohub2x4 ASUS ROG G751(Live) Scarlett 6i6 1010LT TS110A Minimix 8 EMU XMidi 2x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 May i asume you favor the Moxf? I think the MOXF generally beats the Casio except for action, price, size, travel weight. Those things are not insignificant, though. But yeah, I'd say the Yamaha generally sounds better and has a better interface both for setup and for live performance. It depends what your priorities are. I also think that the Kawai MP7 generally beats the Casio except for price, size, travel weight. Obviously, you may need a particular feature that one has that another doesn't, I'm just talking about them overall. I have almost no experience with the Roland. Just for my $.05: I have the PX5S, the MOXF6, and the FA-08 For Master Keyboard duties my hands on gigging experience favors the MOXF with its Master Mode. Followed by the PX5S, and finally the FA08 For lightweight, good feeling 88 note stage piano, the PX5S wins. For the keyboard that feels, to me, most like my Steinway, I take the FA08. I don't rate the MOXF6 in this for obvious reasons. Piano tones: I love both the PX5S and the FA08 Strings: MOXF, FA08, PX5S Brass:FA08, MOXF, PX5S Synth/Synth Brass: FA08,MOXF, PX5S EP: PX5S, FA08, MOXF All very subjective, of course. My usual stage rig consists of my MOXF6 on top of the FA08. The FA08 got the nod over the PX5S due to the large screen, easy setup of Studio Sets, and the great Roland sounds. PLUS, the sample pads that can serve many functions. The MOXF acts as my master controller and I use it strictly in Master Mode. On piano-centric and blues gigs, I take my PX5S. Weight, great piano sounds. Easy to haul and play. David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom 08 | Roland Jupiter 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronnelson Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 The PX-5S doesn't seem to have many great synth sounds. Not saying it can't do them, just that there aren't that many presets. Also as mentioned, no mono mode. This is a big bummer for lead and bass lines. I would put MOXF over FA08 and PX-5S for electric pianos for live. I have grown to love the PX-5S action and didn't exactly love it at the beginning. Korg Kronos, Roland RD-88, Korg Kross, JP8000, MS2000, Sequential Pro One, Micromoog, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Piano tones: I love both the PX5S and the FA08 Strings: MOXF, FA08, PX5S Brass:FA08, MOXF, PX5S Synth/Synth Brass: FA08,MOXF, PX5S EP: PX5S, FA08, MOXF I agree that the PX5S is weak for strings and brass, strong for EP. Though again the thing about the MOXF is that, with the flash card, there are a whole lot of different piano sample sets you can load into them (some free, some not). Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekanout Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 The casio has a great action for the wheight. All are quite good keyboards but the FA is today just the best compromise i think for all you need. Roland made this keyboard just as good as possible for the price. There is something really fun in use with the fa you can't find in another keyboard in this price range. And the synth is just the best for synth sounds (va capabilty,not only rompler like the others) I think the krome is quite good to use,bit not as fun. I had a MOXF8 and sold it because of the noisy plastic keybed even his the motif heart is good. But the FA has the warm synth sound the other don't have. Nord stage 2 EX88,Nord electro 5D,roland RD800,Roland FA08,Korg kingkorg,Korg PA4x,Yamaha PSR s970 Native instrument maschine studio et komplete 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachus Posted September 28, 2016 Author Share Posted September 28, 2016 Sometimes it are the small things that kill aal the fun for you.... With the MOXF, its not just the keybed, but the fact that you cant send midi over both the USB as well as the physical midi port at the same time (same thing as on the Motif and the Montage) you need to choose one of them.. I know this is possible on the Casio, would that also work on the Roland? Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha Tyros5 (76), Integra 7, macbook pro/mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Sometimes it are the small things that kill aal the fun for you.... With the MOXF, its not just the keybed, but the fact that you cant send midi over both the USB as well as the physical midi port at the same time (same thing as on the Motif and the Montage) you need to choose one of them.. I know this is possible on the Casio, would that also work on the Roland? what is the live application where you want to send midi over both USB and 5-pin at the same time? curious ... i'm not a savvy midi guy, i avoid it due to laziness. The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIDI2XS Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 With the MOXF, its not just the keybed, but the fact that you cant send midi over both the USB as well as the physical midi port at the same time (same thing as on the Motif and the Montage) you need to choose one of them.. That's not quite accurate. If you're using USB MIDI, then you're doing so in conjunction with a computer. In that case, the following (from the MOXF Owner's Manual) is relevant: Port 3 This port is used as the MIDI Thru Port. The MIDI data received over Port 3 via the USB [TO HOST] terminal will be re-transmitted to an external MIDI device via the MIDI [OUT] terminal. The MIDI data received over Port 3 via the MIDI [iN] terminal will be re-transmitted to an external device (computer, etc.) via the USB [TO HOST] terminal. In simpler terms, the 5-pin DIN ports become a MIDI interface when USB MIDI is being used, which is more flexible than just having the same MIDI data available over MIDI-Out and USB. Many computer MIDI applications allow for data routing - in that case, if USB Port 1 (the tone generator) data is routed to USB Port 3 in the app, the MOXF's 5-pin MIDI-Out will send the same MIDI data as that over USB. Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 In simpler terms, the 5-pin DIN ports become a MIDI interface when USB MIDI is being used, which is more flexible than just having the same MIDI data available over MIDI-Out and USB. As I understand it, the Casio does not just send the same data out over the DIN and USB connections, you can route things to one or the other, essentially giving you 32 channels to play with instead of 16. I think the bottom line is that both Casio and Yamaha make intelligent use of the combination of the two ports, though they made different design choices, and someone could prefer either one over the other. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachus Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 Sometimes it are the small things that kill aal the fun for you.... With the MOXF, its not just the keybed, but the fact that you cant send midi over both the USB as well as the physical midi port at the same time (same thing as on the Motif and the Montage) you need to choose one of them.. I know this is possible on the Casio, would that also work on the Roland? what is the live application where you want to send midi over both USB and 5-pin at the same time? curious ... i'm not a savvy midi guy, i avoid it due to laziness. Controlling both an arranger module as well as a mac running mainstage. Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha Tyros5 (76), Integra 7, macbook pro/mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 In simpler terms, the 5-pin DIN ports become a MIDI interface when USB MIDI is being used, which is more flexible than just having the same MIDI data available over MIDI-Out and USB. As I understand it, the Casio does not just send the same data out over the DIN and USB connections, you can route things to one or the other, essentially giving you 32 channels to play with instead of 16. I think the bottom line is that both Casio and Yamaha make intelligent use of the combination of the two ports, though they made different design choices, and someone could prefer either one over the other. Yes as a controller, the PX-5S can independently address the USB MIDI and DIN MIDI ports separately, allowing you to control a computer or iPad over USB and another keyboard over DIN MIDI. The PX-5S can also be set so the USB OUT port is functioning as a Thru from computer - essentially as a MIDI interface for other gear. Basically you choose if the DIN MIDI out is "KEY" meaning the keyboard itself or "USB" which is passing the signal coming from a computer. -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 what is the live application where you want to send midi over both USB and 5-pin at the same time? curious ... i'm not a savvy midi guy, i avoid it due to laziness. Controlling both an arranger module as well as a mac running mainstage. You should be able to go from the controller to the Mac, and then the Mac should be able to redirect MIDI to the arranger module connected to one of its own USB ports, no? Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 cant you just use a midi interface that connects all three together? (just learning here ...). i thought the midi message IDs the device in the message, so you can chain a laptop and module all to the same single midi port? edit: just saw AScott's post, same sort of idea. you don't need to use two separate Midi ports on the Yamaha to connect to two different devices, do you? The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 When I run Mainstage, I am still using my MOXF and FA08. MOXF USB > MacBook FA08 USB > Macbook MOXF in Master mode. Select Master in MOXF It sends program (patch) change to Mainstage Mainstage sends program (patch) change to FA08 Simple, easy. Yes, USB and MIDI at same time is cool as on the PX5S, but it's not a complicated workaround with other setups. As someone posted above the MOXF can route USB thru its MIDI. My FA08 MIDI out can also be set to 'soft thru' (since it doesn't have a true MIDI thru port). The cool thing about Mainstage is it can be the brains of the rig AND be treated as a sound module at the same time. I have also used my PX5S to send USB to Mainstage and regular 5 pin MIDI to an older. non-usb module. It's all good! David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom 08 | Roland Jupiter 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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