Tone on a budget / Yamaha P-120 revisited

[LX88]

There was a thread on the forum a while ago ( sometime this summer) and the poster was wondering what might be available in the 500 to 600 dollar range new or used that would have decent acoustic and electric pianos and good midi controller capabilities.

 

At least one notorious list member scoffed at such an idea. Being somewhat parsimonious myself I began a search to what the possibilities in this price range might be in my area.

 

I came up with several options in this price range this summer - all used. First was the Roland FP-7.... which I liked - but I missed the deal on it , 550 dollars for one in excellent condition.

 

I might have enjoyed it, but a few weeks later an extremely mint condition Yamaha CP-33 turned up for significantly less money. I have always liked the CP-33 , so I nabbed it. But it may wind up in " Garage Sale" after what happened next.

 

There was one more sleeper in that sequence. Someone near me offered a nice never gigged Yamaha P-120 for 50 bucks (!) . It had a minor problem. It had one broken key, which is why I'm sure it went so cheap.

 

Fortunately, I have a few keys from a parts P-80,and the one I needed worked. After an hour or so of fiddling I got it going . Here is what I found.

 

First, the P-120 acoustic sample sounds a lot like the CP-33. I haven't done an extensive A/B but... The are three usable acoustic sample options on it, of which I like the first and third choice the best.

 

For this money, I was more than happy. The acoustic sounds just a bit bright through the built in speakers in the upper register, even though there is a brightness adjustment slider on top. My usual practice "go to " sound is usually obtained by using headphone through a mixer for subtle EQ changes. My first choice is usually to pump a bit more low end into the acoustic sample, and leave the mid and highs relatively flat.

 

When I had the lid off to fix the key, I discovered that the internal speakers are quite small. I would say the the Roland FP-7 has an edge in the internal speaker/ amp department. So I use the headphones mostly at this time.

 

Next I went to the electric pianos. This is where I have been very surprised. There is one Rhodes patch and one Wurlie patch that are going to be quite useful to me.

 

I like the Rhodes, but the Wurlie seems to really shine for tone. I am not wild about the fact that the internal vibrato in the P-120 is not very adjustable, but the Wurlie tone on this is quite good. With the right vibrato ( too bad it would have to be outboard) this is one of the better Wurlies I have heard.

 

I also like the Rhodes, which is very "Yamaha like" - which means to me that they like it a bit raspy. But when the internal phaser effect is engaged, it has a very pleasing Richard Tee/ Steely Dan type sound. You can dial in levels of intensity which helps it all.

 

I probably like both of these EP's as much or more than the MOXF EP's I recently had. A big plus is the lack of artificial bark that so many Yamaha EP's employ.

 

The P-120 has much better EP's that the P-33, which is too bad and something that I never could understand.

 

It has also been easy to hook a home subwoofer up to this via the RCA outs that it has.The sub/ internal speakers work great on the EP's . So it is a very fun board to play with the Phaser Rhodes or Wurlie patches.

 

My guess is that these units are starting to show up at very bargain prices. The P-120 was popular among home consumers who did not gig them. My unit has an action that feels very nice, and it also has the factory wooden stand if I just want to keep it home.

 

So that is the saga of my fifty dollar Yamaha P-120. So far, so good.

[mate stubb]

I briefly owned a P-120. I returned it because the action was too stiff for me and bought a P-90. I had a brief fling with that and later turned it into an S-90.

 

I found the Rhodes on the P-120 to be noticeably better than the one on the P-90.

[AnotherScott]

There was a thread on the forum a while ago ( sometime this summer) and the poster was wondering what might be available in the 500 to 600 dollar range new or used that would have decent acoustic and electric pianos and good midi controller capabilities.

 

At least one notorious list member scoffed at such an idea.

I missed that thread, and of course "decent" and "good" can be subjective, but in pretty recent boards, I'd look at Kurzweil PC1X, Casio PX3S.

[Joe P]

My guitarist friend has one and I have gigged with it a few times over the years. The action is too heavy for me but the AP & EP sounds are great.

 

He does a big music festival every year, thousands of people, big PA etc. where he backlines the P120 and it sounds fantastic in the hands of a good player.

 

I think your $50 was well spent!

[Bobadohshe]

For $50 that's a great deal. Funny though I always end up rolling off lows from pianos not boosting them. Can't speak to the P-120 though.

[Adam Burgess]

Did a church gig years ago with one provided and it definitely sounded better than the cost. I've had two since then.

 

Loved the action. Really got the connection straight away. Used to always leave the built in speakers on full for that subtle vibration

 

Only problem (before I started using L-shaped jacks) I had was the connector board. That was cheap and behaved accordingly. Both the outs and the power jacks.

[eric]

I had a P-120 for a number of years that I bought from a forum member and used as my rehearsal board. I always thought it was a solid digital piano and enjoyed it. Yamaha made more of a "home" version of the P-120 (cannot remember the model, but YP something) that was in a larger cabinet with more speakers and top that closed over the keyboard. Around that time, both my mom and my mother in law were trying to get digital pianos in their houses for the grandkids to play when visiting. I helped them buy these "home P-120" units and they still have them. Very nice sound and great action.

[LX88]

Eric- I came close to buying your P-120 several years back. I opted for a Roland RD300GX and was not sorry I did. The 300GX still has my favorite digital Rhodes, but the P-120 is turning out to be pretty good.

 

Someone suggested a Casio PX3S ( ?). Do you mean PX5S ?

 

I am just not there with the Casio piano sample, at least the one I have heard. That plunkiness in the midrange is a real groove killer for me.

 

What I am discussing here is something in the 500 dollar range, new or used. Another post addressed that, and at last one poster said it was not possible. I have found that to be not true.

 

So the contenders in the used market that I have seen have been - Roland FP-7, Yamaha CP33 ( not good EP's though ) and Yamaha P-120.

 

I am gravitating toward older boards in lieu of paying outlandish prices for some of the newer stuff.

 

One major difference I hear that that there was a slight amount of midrange plunkiness in boards like the CP33 and P-120 but if you are savvy enough with your playback system it can be minimized. The Casios I don't think I can do much about. Sorry Mike.

[LX88]

I also A/B ed the CP33 vs. the P120 and I will be damned if I can hear much difference. But the P-120 wins for EP's.

 

My main message is. The P-120 is a lot like buying an A 100 Hammond. They were generally home units and therefore not gigged. So the condition can often be excellent, as mine is.

 

And the prices seem to be pretty darn good on some others I have seen.

[LX88]

I also A/B ed the CP33 vs. the P120 and I will be damned if I can hear much difference. But the P-120 wins for EP's.

 

My main message is. The P-120 is a lot like buying an A 100 Hammond. They were generally home units and therefore not gigged. So the condition can often be excellent, as mine is.

 

And the prices seem to be pretty darn good on some others I have seen.

[AnotherScott]

Someone suggested a Casio PX3S ( ?). Do you mean PX5S ?

No, its predecessor (also sometimes just called PX3). PX5S is not in the desired price range, though it is (mostly) a better board.

[area51recording]

For $50 that's a great deal. Funny though I always end up rolling off lows from pianos not boosting them. Can't speak to the P-120 though.

 

Same here for me. For some reason it always seems like most DP's have a ridiculous amount of lows baked in...

[LX88]

I like to put low frequencies in there... it seems to warm up the tone for me. Plus I play left hand bass lines a lot.

 

I found a bit of a difference when A/B ing the CP33 vs. the P120. The CP33 has some upper harmonics that the P-120 does not have.

 

For me, I don't care for the harmonics. Acoustic pianos might have them, but they are often random, like the upper harmonics on bass strings. They are not predictable.

 

So on DP's I like warm tones in general. The P-120 seems also to be the least " plunky" in the midrange of the Yamahas I hvae heard from this period. It's a very warm sounding board.

 

As I said in a previous post... I am probably going to let go of a mint condition CP-33 in Garage Sale. If anyone wants something like that PM me. Open to trade offers.

 

The P-120 is a winner and so far a top choice in the "tone on a budget" category for new or used boards.

 

 

[LX88]

Back to the tone on a budget thing. There is a deal on e bay right now on a Roland FP-7 in mint condition in the Chicago area

pick up only. My guess on it is that the bidding will go pretty low because of the pick up only factor.

 

The FP7 is definitely on my tone on a budget list. This has the PHA II keybed, not the heavier PHA III.

 

Once again, this is the pre Supernatural " Superior Grand" piano sample, which seems to be free of the extreme high frequency overtones. I like the PHA II keybed a lot also.

 

I loved my RD300GX but it bit the dust after being returned from a theft. Some idiot tried to pawn it and I got it back, but broken.

 

If that wouldn't have happened I may not have started this whole tone on a budget issue.

 

 

[David Loving]

Tone on a budget? Casio - any piano. I have a PX-160 that has a super piano. Good action.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Holy carp, there are a ton of decent sub $1k digital pianos these days. Remember back in the 90s when you needed to pay no less than $1299 for an 88 weighted action digital keyboard? What did your Kurzweil K250 cost you, or Korg SG1D, or Kurzweil P88?

 

Yamaha P45, P115 $449 - $599.99

Casio CGP-700 - $799.99

Casio PX-160, PX-360 - $499.99-$899.99

Kawai ES100 - $799

Roland FP-30 - $699

 

These are all halfway decent digital pianos on the cheap. The Kawai doesn't have 1/4" unbalanced outs, you have to tap one of the two headphone jacks to amp/pa or your direct box. Of course if you bite the bullet and break $1k now you get the latest buzz like higher polyphony and resonance algorithms and such.