Larryz Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 @ DBM, +1,000 on the Beatles Love show at the Mirage in Vegas. I arranged a fly-in in with my old buddies (from my 60's Ventures band) and our wives and we all stayed at the Mirage. It was a fantastic show! My drummer had seen it before but returned again to see it with the gang and we all agreed we would see it again, it was that good! @ Fang, Yes I'm aware Chuck wrote Memphis, Duh! I was referring to that little ditty that the Beatles probably lifted from the Johnny Rivers version of Memphis for their little ditty in I Feel Fine. You pointed out (and rightly so) that Johnny lifted it from Lonnie Mack. And I agreed because he wrote that little ditty in '62 while improvising in the studio. He cut the record with it included while doing his instrumental version of Chuck's song. That was in March of '63, the Ventures tossed it in, in their instrumental version, in August of '63. But, neither of them made the big time hit like Johnny's hit from the Whiskey A Go in '64 and that's why I suspect the Beatles might have taken it from Johnny for I Feel Fine. They were fond of doing covers of Chuck Berry's tunes (and other US rock and rollers). There is just a little similarity of the little ditty in I Feel Fine, not really a copy. In the original by Chuck, the little ditty isn't there LOL! It's not really a lead per se, as it's just a few chords with some special timing. When I play it, I just use a B6 to A6 then E6 to D6 then B6 to A6 and back to the E riff... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 "I Want To Hold Your Hand" was MY first Beatles purchase. Bought it the day after first hearing it on my bedside radio in Dec. '63. THAT'S when I became a fan. So, what TOOK you so long, DBM? Whitefang I was singing a-Capella in a New Jersey Shore doo wop group we called the Soundmasters, so my listening was the Temptations, Miracles, and other MoTown and Philly black groups singing soul music and close harmonies. Once I turned on, tuned in, and dropped out (along with the others in the group) I decided that singing a-Capella was really on the way out, and I wanted a more hip type of musical experience. So I picked up the guitar and started learning it. I tried to get the other guys in the group to come along on that journey, but of course it takes self discipline to learn a musical instrument, and I was the only one in the group that had the stick to it ness to persevere in the learning process which as we all know never ends. So I left the group and began hanging out with other instrumentalists. That was the end of my a-Capella days. Then I began listening to progressive radio stations, and I began hearing The Beatles, Hendrix, The Cream, and the other wonderful musicians of the mid to later 1960's. The Soundmasters are still at it back in Ocean County NJ singing off key harmonies, when I left the group, the harmony blend got different with the new guys, and after a few more personnel changes and five or so years after I left, it never recovered to the blend we had when I sang in the group. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 Ain't that how The Four Seasons started DBM? And I seem to recall that in album cover photos and other pics back then, ONE of THEM had a Strat hangin' on him! I don't seem to recall ANY A-Capella group making it big WITHOUT some band of at least studio musicians backing them, so you seemed to make the right move. LARRY--That "little ditty" Lonnie did could well have been something HE heard someone ELSE do at one time, and THAT guy possibly heard it from someone ELSE and so on and so on..... Don't we ALL often subconsciously play some run or riff we couldn't if our lives depended on it pinpoint WHERE we first heard it, or from WHO? And, you CAN hear, at least the ROOTS of that "ditty" in Berry's original recording. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 <---original Chuck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1kGuUZUgI0 <---remake Johnny You be the judge. You won't hear the intro or the bass riff or the ditty or the ending in the original that you hear in the remake. You will hear the basic 4 chord "roots" of the song throughout the song...which lead Lonnie's ears to that little chord ditty with different timing. I had this experience with one of my bass players long ago who was a note for note guy. When we got to the ditty he kept going with the original Berry timing and chords while I was doing the Johnny Rivers version and the mash up did not work at all. I said what the hell are you doing anyway? He said I'm playing it just like the record. I said then listen to the Johnny Rivers record and we will try it again LOL! +1 I agree that everyone pulls stuff out of their subconscious and there are therefor innocent copies of chords, riffs, even leads that are thrown in in tons of songs (especially blues tunes and rock and roll tunes). I think Lonnie discovered this one little ditty and I think the Beatles had a bit of it in their subconscious when they did I Feel Fine (I know it's stuck in my brain LOL!)...Not sure if Clapton will cop to Blue Moon in Sunshine of Your Love, but I think he should... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 If that bass player WAS a "note for note" guy, and the REST of the band was playing the Rivers version, then what WAS he thinking? As for "Blue Moon", I don't see how Clapton COULD get out of it, even if he tried. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 His answer was: "I'm playing it just like the original and you're no Johnny Rivers!" My comeback was: "You're not good enough to play with Johnny Rivers, that's why you're playing it with me!" LOL... ps. I had a drummer tell me while I was doing my intro to Johnny B. Goode, "that ain't the way Chuck Berry played it!" My come back was: "That's because I'm not Chuck Berry" LOL! pss. I had a harmonica player tell me, "why are you playing Route 66 in G#? Why don't you just play it in A?" I said I like it in G# for my vocals, would you tell Tony Bennett what key to sing I Left My Heart in San Francisco in?" he said, "You're no Tony Bennett" and I came back with: "You're not good enough to play with Tony Bennett, that's why you're playing with me!" fell back on that Johnny Rivers come back and then I started learning San Francisco so I can play it for him some day LOL! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yeah, well even OTHER singers of Bennett's level often choose the key THEIR most comfortable singing in. I mean, HOW many times in old movies or in TV skits would you see some singer walk up to the mic and turn to the bandleader and say something like, " 'Peg o' My Heart' in B please."? Or Martin Short's IRVING COHEN character's "Give me a bouncy C." ? I had a buddy who also had a "basement band" back in the day and they responded to the complaint "You guys don't sound like the RECORD" sacastically. They amazingly worked it out ahead of time. They'd play a bit of whatever song and start mocking the sound of a record that was STUCK! "I saw her-tick!-I saw her-tick!-I saw her-tick! then slide their hands up the necks of their guitars to make a "VWOOP!" sound and continue on! One time, after doing that and after a break, they all got back to their instruments with QUARTERS attatched to their heads explaining, "These COINS are on our heads to prevent the RECORD from getting stuck again." Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmac Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Larry your are absolutely right. If it sounds good to you do it that way. Fang the quarter story made me laugh this morning. All have a great day. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 @ Fang, I was watching the movie Oh Brother Where Art Thou, and at the end concert one of the Soggy Bottom Boys steps up to the mic and says "In The Jail House now boys somewhere around the key of B" (paraphrasing)...I got a chuckle out of that one as that's the key old Box Car Willie and I do it in LOL! @ Jim, Thanks! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 I think the guy said, "NEIGHBORHOOD of B" which did kind of tickle me when I first heard it. And I SECOND Jim's "If it sounds good to you" comment. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 @ Fang, Yep that's it! "Neighborhood of B" LOL! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 The role of "Tommy" in that movie was played by Chris Thomas King who also plays a mean guitar for real. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Chris is actually playing the guitar on the soundtrack for Hard Time Killing Floor Blues in Oh Brother Where Art Thou. <---live Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 I was surprised to hear "Man Of Constant Sorrow" in the movie. Until then, I only knew Bob Dylan's and Joan Baez's versions. First, on Bob's debut LP and later on Joan's second I think. DO like the "Soggy Bottom" version better,though. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I think Dylan even likes the Soggy Bottom Boys version better. There is a YouTube clip of him doing it live... +1 on the Soggy Bottom version, it's a very cool song and I love singing the back up parts for a blue grass buddy of mine... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 What doesn't surprise me is Dylan doing the song different from how HE did it. I've got the original recording of his "Maggie's Farm" on his "Bringing It All Back Home" CD, a live version recorded in the mid '70's and saw him do the song on TV two more other times, and NONE of them sound the same! Different tempos, vibe and so on... Singing that backup sounds like a lot of fun. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I can hear the same song in Dylan's original and the Soggy Bottom version. I'm sure Dylan received credits for the song. The lyrics and vibe are a bit different for example: the place where he was born (i.e. Colorado vs Kentucky) but you know where they stole the song from for the movie...I really don't care for the original all that much and prefer the movie version...a super cool hit. I liked the whole movie soundtrack which really made the movie come alive! One of my favorite CD's. As I listen to the CD I still visualize the scenes from the movie LOL! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Your saying you didn't care for the "original" version spurred me into looking it up. I always thought it was one of them old "public domain" folk songs, and that might be right. It was first published by a blind fiddler named DICK BURNETT in 1913, who once said he couldn't remember if HE made it up or just remembered learning it from somewhere. It was originally titled "Farewell Song", and the earliest recording of it is believed to be by someone named EMRY ARTHUR in 1928! It was recorded by a LOT of people. The STANLEY BROTHERS in the '50's, Dylan, Baez, Judy Collins( who titled it "MAID Of constant Sorrow") Peter, Paul and Mary and even Ginger Baker's AIR FORCE! But yeah, I too, prefer the movie version. BTW--even the liner notes on Dylan's debut LP refers to the song as, "a traditional Southern mountain folk song". Which meant HIS version WASN'T the "original". Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I didn't look into the song history and was talking about Dylan's original and the Soggy Bottom version. From your information, I can see why Dylan was probably not asked or credited in the CD notes. It reminds me of House of the Rising Sun by the Animals. Many people think they came up with the original, but it was an old folk song from way back...Most of the soundtrack songs are old classics and they really lend some local blue grass hillbilly vibe to the movie. They are just flat great tunes IMHO. One song The Beatles did which would have fit in (on the topic of RINGO...LOL!) is Rocky Raccoon! Which is a tune I love to sing now and then for my own enjoyment... Rocky had come equipped with a gun, to shoot off the legs of his rival...even though it took place in the black mining hills of Dakota. Just have to change the location like they did from Colorado to Kentucky...somewhere in the coal mining hills of Virginia, there lived a young boy named Rocky Raccoon...we'll have to ask Paul and Ringo says the producer... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 ??? Since "Rocky" IS a Lennon/McCartney original, it kinda DOESN'T fit in with the "debate" over "Constant Sorrow"s origins. "House Of The Rising Sun"? Dylan also did that one on his debut LP, which has only TWO Dylan originals: "Talking New York" and "Song To Woody". I often wondered if The Animals got "Risin' Sun" from THAT album, or learned it somewhere else! OK, let's go another way.... I know a couple of guys who always thought ELP's "Benny The Bouncer" was THEIR attempt at a "Rocky Racoon" type song. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 There is not "debate over Constant Sorrow's origins", I simply mentioned Rocky Raccoon as a Beatles song that would fit in with the vibe of the movie. This was an effort to get back to the topic of the RINGO thread and not meant as part of any "debate." As I mentioned House of the Rising Sun was an old (pre-Dylan) folk song so the Animals could have got the idea from any old recording of it. Not to say it couldn't have come from listening to Dylan. The Animals definitely had the greatest hit with bringing the song back to life IMHO. Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 As I mentioned House of the Rising Sun was an old (pre-Dylan) folk song so the Animals could have got the idea from any old recording of it. Not to say it couldn't have come from listening to Dylan. And Dylan got it from Dave Van Ronk. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 As I mentioned House of the Rising Sun was an old (pre-Dylan) folk song so the Animals could have got the idea from any old recording of it. Not to say it couldn't have come from listening to Dylan. And Dylan got it from Dave Van Ronk. And Van Ronk probably got it from Woody Guthrie 1941 LOL! or from Roy Acuff 1938: cool! ps. or how about Leadbelly? Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 And Van Ronk probably got it from Woody Guthrie 1941 LOL! or from Roy Acuff 1938: cool! ps. or how about Leadbelly? Two vastly different & great versions of the song, but that's not Leadbelly singing in the 2nd clip. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Indeed Scott---those same Dylan liner notes do claim Bob learned the song from Van Ronk. And no doubt, The Animals have done better with it than anyone else I can think of. But one consternation.... When I clicked on Larry's YouTube link, I was informed I need ADOBE FLASH PLAYER to view the video. So I downloaded Adobe Flash player, and after installation, I clicked on the link and was told AGAIN that I needed Adobe Flash player.... Easy to see why I have NO LOVE for all y'all's beloved YouTube! Oh, and the mention of Roy Acuff...Dylan also does his "Freight Train Blues" on that LP. LOVE that tune! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 And Van Ronk probably got it from Woody Guthrie 1941 LOL! or from Roy Acuff 1938: cool! ps. or how about Leadbelly? Two vastly different & great versions of the song, but that's not Leadbelly singing in the 2nd clip. Yeah, it's Leadbelly on the guitar, but I don't know who the lady (I think it's a lady) is that's singing it... ps. I don't know why your computer is having trouble with Adobe and/or YouTube Fang, but it would be worth looking into it as YouTube is a site I use almost every day and there is a ton of great stuff (music and otherwise) on the site. Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 That COULD have been Hudie singin' there Larry. Old recordings of his I've heard over the years sound as if he probably did sing in a higher register than he probably talked. Like Eddie Kendricks did. I'll have my daughter(the computer tech) look into that problem. But for a long time I had issues with YouTube clips due to my not getting off "dial-up" until about 2010 (money was tight and broadband was too costly for me at the time). Took FOREVER to get a clip to play! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Back in the late 90's I was on dial up and it would take all day for a YouTube video to load. Now it fires up as soon as I click on it...Hope she finds the problem for you...the kids are pretty good at the computer stuff! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Y'know, if the CLIP is posted, it's no problem. But, the LINK is. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 That's a little strange, maybe the kids can figure it out. Links almost always open for me...sometimes they don't post for some reason on articles that I find and I just skip using them. YouTube links always post for me and are easy for me to call up. Even if the links don't work, you can go on YouTube and just search on the subject and you'll usually find the clips... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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