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RINGO


whitefang

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No, Ringo WASN'T The Beatles' first drummer. So, which Beatles tunes did Pete Best play on?

 

He played on all of them, until he was dismissed.

 

How often did or DO you hear anyone talk about the drum work of Charlie Watts?

Whitefang

 

Keith Richards sings Charlie's praises in a Keith documentary on Netflix, which I forget the name of.

Scott Fraser
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Fang, You might think about heading yourself off at the pass...you never said we had to come up with a "Rock Drummer"! You just said Ringo was the 1st Rock Drummer we all talked about...Buddy Rich wasn't a rock drummer? Duh...maybe he was just a jazz drummer but he hit the top of my list for some reason and I liked his comments about Ringo's drumming...

 

As far as all of the above that I mentioned, I would go with Don Henley of The Eagles as being the most talked about and favored by me. He was/is a great drummer who can still play every single Eagles song by memory and never miss a beat or the drum parts that he had played in the original recordings. He was/is also a great singer. And, he wrote many of the Eagles songs all of which were just flat great IMHO. He was much more talented than Ringo IMHO, even though Ringo will always be a favorite of mine too. No doubt Henley wasn't the 1st on the list due to our generation gap, but if I was born in the 60's he would be the first drummer on my list beginning around the age of 11 (i.e. 1971), much the same way as Ringo did around 1963 when I was just 13... :rimshot:

 

ps. Paul wasn't the Beatles 1st Bass player either LOL!

Take care, Larryz
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Well, Ex-CUUUUUUSE ME!

 

The only two times I ever saw The Eagles in concert, I didn't hear Henley doing ANYthing exceptional on the drums. Oh, he was good, sure...but I wouldn't put him "up there" with Pert, Mitchell, Moon, Bonham or Baker.

 

Plus, I never said anyone had to come up with ANYbody. I merely mentioned that BEFORE Ringo, most guys never gave a band's drummer much consideration. If ANY at all. Look at old films of bands from back then and you'll notice the bulk of them just sitting behind their kits merely keeping a beat and looking disinterested( ESPECIALLY Watts, whose bored expression and relative lethargic approach was HIS "hook". But usually on TV appearances. I've seen concert footage where he seems to be going CRAZY!)

 

Huh? Buddy Rich was "just" a jazz drummer? That's like saying Vladimir Horowitz was "just" a "piano player"! :D

 

Yeah, there's lots of differing stories surrounding Stu Sutcliffe as The Beatles' bass player back in their early days.

 

One: He really didn't actually "play" the bass, just stood there holding it with his back turned towards the audience while Paul cranked up the bass tones on his guitar and amp and played the bass parts, and that Stu was made a member of the band at John's insistence due to him and Stu being good art school buddies.

 

two: Stu was VERY rudimentary at best as a bass player, only "thumping" the root note to the chords of the songs they played. After Stu's death Paul then decided to take on the bass.

 

Don't know if either is true or not and don't really care.It's good enough for me that they got through it all and GOT here!

 

WHO'S "generaton gap"?! You're only ONE YEAR OLDER than me, "pops"! :D

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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Well, we all know who Buddy Rich was and we all knew he wasn't a "Rock" drummer, duh...He would therefor be my choice for the most talked about...and +1 He was one of the greatest and not just a jazz drummer LOL! :rimshot:

 

It is funny that we are talking about the Beatles and the Stones drummers and both groups lost their bass players and did not replace them. Maybe Charlie would have become a better drummer if the Stones had replaced their bass player(s). I still believe Ringo became a better drummer by playing with those other 3 blokes. Especially Paul. Bass players and drummers go together like bacon and eggs... :rimshot:

 

You'll notice I said "Our" generation as I know you're an old fart just like me. I was trying to point out that if We were born in the 60's instead of the 50's, I would have probably picked Henley over Ringo as my most talked about drummer, as unlike Buddy and to some degree Ringo, Henley did a lot more than just play drums! :rimshot:

 

ps. Since my High School band was a Ventures tribute band (before there were "tribute" bands), I was very familiar with Mel Taylor. He was not the original drummer however, and both he and the original did a great job IMHO... :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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:D:D

 

Actually, according mostly from what I've overheard by my ex's kid brother( b. 1962) and HIS buddies, the most talked about "great" drummers by THEM were--

 

NEAL PERT

 

JOHN BONHAM

 

ALEX VAN HALEN

 

:D:D:D

 

I DID notice you posted, "OUR generation GAP" which appeared to me that you were indicating some kind of "gap" between the TWO of us. ;) however.....

 

I don't feel we "old people" are here for Shark's amusement. We feel it good to impart any music history on the young and dumb to enforce the old philosophy, "You won't know where you're GOING, unless you know where you CAME FROM!" ;)

 

And, judging by today's "modern" and rock music, that history is being ignored 'cause they seem to be going NOWHERE! :D

 

Incidentally---My ex's kid brother also dug Ringo, as he somehow(apart from his other friends) became a HUGE Beatles freak when he was about 17.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I think The generation gaps usually run parallel with the decades as far as music is concerned. Like your Ex's kid brother I took some razzing from my fellow 60's crowd because I still liked Elvis and the 50's music. "Hey man, haven't you ever heard of The Beach Boys? Don't you like The Beatles? Why are you still listening to that old crap?"...Even though I loved the Beach Bums and the Fab 4, I still really loved the 50's stuff that came out of the 40's stuff. I still like picking out and throwing in tunes for my set lists from the 30's. I liked a ton of 60's and 70's stuff and do not really care for anything newer than the 90's... :cool:

 

 

Take care, Larryz
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IMO the reason people talk more about Ringo Than Charlie Watts is the same reason they talk more about Clapton and Beck than Wood and Richards, the Beatles were a band and gave Ringo and George some space. The Rolling Stones were a backup band for Mick. Just my opinion, I don't know enough about drummers to say who is better.

 

The Rolling Stones and The Beatles are both very big in China. Their are several Beatles tribute bands and many band doing a lot of Stones stuff. We may be an emerging market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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When I record drums in the studio it's almost always jazz guys, but long ago when I did more rock sessions & had a drummer give me his vision for how he wanted to sound, pretty much 100% of the time they said they wanted "that 'When The Levee Breaks' Bonham sound". I think that was the guy & the sound that first made us aware of a drummers' sound, as much or more than what he played.
Scott Fraser
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@ JuJu, I think Ringo and George were the back up band for Paul and John too LOL! But you are correct, +1 without Mick there just isn't a Rolling Stones sound, same is true for John Fogerty and CCR...I'm very happy to hear that the Beatles and the Stones are still big in China too! :thu:

 

@ Scott, finding that one artist's drum sound that all of those drummers wanted to achieve is very much like each of our favorite guitar heroes and their sound. I've always really liked that smooth violin Santana sound, Clapton's clean sound and Scotty Moore's rockabilly echo sound, even though there are probably 100's of other choices that other guitar players would prefer...I think most of their sound is in their playing though LOL! :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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I think The generation gaps usually run parallel with the decades as far as music is concerned. Like your Ex's kid brother I took some razzing from my fellow 60's crowd because I still liked Elvis and the 50's music. "Hey man, haven't you ever heard of The Beach Boys? Don't you like The Beatles? Why are you still listening to that old crap?"...Even though I loved the Beach Bums and the Fab 4, I still really loved the 50's stuff that came out of the 40's stuff. I still like picking out and throwing in tunes for my set lists from the 30's. I liked a ton of 60's and 70's stuff and do not really care for anything newer than the 90's... :cool:

 

 

Chris(the ex's brother) really didn't get any razzing for liking The Beatles. Seems most of his buddies liked them too.

 

I on the other hand, got razzed a lot for getting into the "folk scene" of the early '60's in spite of my still also liking the rock music of the times. But by the latter part of the decade, a buddy of mine and I often took some grief over our also, along with all the "hip" music of the late '60's also liking to listen to our parents' old big band and swing era 78s. AND the blues, up until it became "cool" for "hippies" to like it too. :D

 

As for the '50's music, nobody in our particular "circle" had anything against it. My old "basement band" drummer Ralph( that "off beat" guy I mentioned once) was a huge Elvis fan too, and although except for a few of his earlier tunes, WE weren't all that big on him at the time, never gave any grief to Ralph for his adoration, given what we ut up with for the big band stuff probably. But liking '50's music wasn't thought of by many to be dismissed. As one guy I knew put it, "We wouldn't have got to where we are now without it."

 

That, plus Frank Zappa's "Ruben and The Jets" helped many of the others think '50's music STILL wasn't all that bad. :D It DOES seem that one decade's music will find new interest in the second decade following it. Like '50's music sort of "reviving" in the early '70's, and so on.....

 

And I too, feel the '90's was the last(so far) good period of rock music.

 

As for The Beatles and The Rolling Stones being the "back up" bands for Paul, John and Mick, well...Perhaps thats's how the GIRLS thought of it, as THEY were FAR more interested in Paul, John and Mick and how CUTE they thought they were than they really were in any of the MUSIC. :D I mean, I NEVER heard ANYone female say anything favorably about the looks of any other Beatle until my WIFE, while watching the movie "Help!" said she fell in LOVE with Ringo's "GORGEOUS blue eyes!" :D

 

And for what it's worth( a cool tune too), I also took some razzing from some for my delving deeper into classical music and my affinity for "Fusion" in the '70's.

 

And I wouldn't mind hearing some of those Chinese Beatles and Stones "tribute" bands. Might be interesting.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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@whitefang, the Cheatles and the Beijing Beatles are on youtube. They are not Chinese but they live in Beijing. If you want to hear a Chinese band I would recommend Wang Wen, they are on youtube also. I would post the link but I can't get youtube.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Fang, I never knew Ringo had blue eyes LOL! I'm thinking we were influenced by AM radio in our younger days. There were fewer stations to listen to and they had to cram all of the different genres into the lineup. Classical music not so much but pop, jazz standards, rock and roll, country, folk, etc., gave us kids more to think about and appreciate in the 50's and 60's world of music LOL! :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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A big AMEN on that Larry!

 

'Round here there were THREE AM stations that played "pop" hits. WJBK( now a religious station), WXYZ( called itself "Wixie" and went to being a "talk radio" station and now THE TICKET, and part of the CBS all sports amalgam) and WKNR( called itself "Keener" and changed to WNIC, a "soft rock"/easy listening format) and ALL THREE made the claim of being the FIRST station in the Metro area to bring The Beatles to Detroit!

 

But, NONE of them played ANY jazz, unless you want to include Ramsey Lewis' "The In Crowd" instrumental. :D

 

But yeah...I've brought up the diversity of AM stations back in "the day" before. I DO distinctly recall one night hearing The Beatles' "A Hard Day's Night" followed by Roger Miller's "Dang Me" followed by The Kingston Trio's "Desert Pete"! :D

 

@JuJu---"The CHEATLES?" Heh! LOVE it! Best name for a Beatles tribute band I've heard YET! :D Maybe someone here might post the link. I don't do YouTube much( IF at all), so it won't be me....

Whitefang

 

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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<---here's The Cheatles! +1 cool name for a Chinese Beatles tribute band...

 

+1 the AM stations did not play jazz. They played some jazz/pop standards that I was thinking of like Scotch and Soda, Misty, Mack the Knife, Summertime, Masquerade (on FM in 1976), Hello Dolly, Route 66, Since I Fell For You, Girl From Ipanema, etc... :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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Heh, yeah...

 

Most people didn't know some of those WERE jazz tunes. Most will admit(like me) that at the time, EVERYbody knew "Misty" as a Johnny Mathis tune, but never heard of Erroll Garner. :D OR that it was Stan Getz blowing that tenor in "Impanema".

 

But "Hello Dolly" WASN'T a jazz tune until Louis Armstrong got ahold of it! :D It was a Broadway show tune. ;)

 

Oh, and until Bobby Darin made it REAL popular, many never knew the history of the song "Mack The Knife". And since Bobby did such "pop" tunes like "Dream Lover" and "Splish Splash", probably never thought of it as a jazz tune either. Actually, it's ANOTHER "show tune", this time, from a German presentation called "The Three Penny Opera" back in 1928!

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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+1 Louis Armstrong is who I was thinking of with Hello Dolly, along with What A Wonderful World and many of his other hits...What a wonderful artist! You go Satchmo!

 

I didn't know Maggie went back to 1928. I'll have to add it to my arsenal (even though I have done it before but not with the credit the song really deserves), as my oldest song is from 1932 LOL! :cool:

 

 

Take care, Larryz
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Sure. I'm willing to "bet the rent" that in spite of the stage musical "Hello Dolly" being a huge Broadway hit BEFORE Louis recorded the tune that most people in America weren't that familiar with it UNTIL "Bags" recorded it! ;)

 

It was too bad Armstrong's label at the time he recorded "What A WONDERFUL World" ;) in '67 didn't promote it in the U.S. then. Was a BIG hit in the UK however, and MY first hearing it back then was mostly due to a cousin who lived in Montreal at that time and brought it with her on a visit. I guess Canadian radio was playing it too, but not HERE until WAY later on.

 

It's surprising how old some of what we used to think "modern" pop hits actually are. Two examples---

 

The old Flamingos hit from '59 I think, "I Only Have Eyes For You" was written by HARRY WARREN and lyricist AL DUBIN in 1934 for a movie musical called "Dames". The Etta James big hit "At Last" was written by Warren again, but this time with lyricist Mack Gordon in 1941 for the movie "Orchestra Wives".

 

Gos to prove that a good song is a good song REGARDLESS of which style it's played! Look at "Blue Moon", a Rogers and Hart song, also from '34 that Elvis gave the rock'n'roll treatment in '56("B" side of "Just Because") and later by "Doo-Wop" group The Marcels in '61. And some others since.

Whitefang

 

PS: And NO...I'm talking about the song "Blue Moon" and NOT Elvis' "Blue Moon of Kentucky". As the forum's resident "Elvis Freak" you should KNOW this. ;)

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I had to correct Beautiful World to Wonderful World above as I was having a brain fart at the time! :facepalm:

 

I am familiar with the Elvis version of Blue Moon of Kentucky not being Blue Moon. Did you know that Blue Moon of Kentucky was on the B side of That's Alright Mama? They are kind of tied for Elvis' first song although no one really listened to the B side at the time. Then Elvis tried to sing it at the Grand Old Opry and he was turned down for coming on the stage as it was just to jazzy for the country boys...I still play both songs live when I get the chance LOL! :cool:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UThHh8qCBM8 <---Here's the Fab 3 doing Blue Moon of Kentucky, the perfect segue back to Ringo's blue eyes LOL!

Take care, Larryz
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Scott: Noticed that first time I heard that song! I thought it was cool for Clapton to "quote" that. ;)

 

Larry: I've ALWAYS listened to the "B" sides of ANY 45 I bought. Mostly they weren't worth the time and effort, but also once in a while there'd be a tune I liked BETTER that the song I wanted in the first place! :) One odd thing though...

 

When I bought a 45 of the RIVIERA'S "California Sun", I flipped it over to listen to the "B" side, which did have the title of another tune, but somehow for some reason, "California Sun" was pressed on IT too!

 

And I thought Elvis was CHASED OFF the stage after an audition for "The Grand Ol' Opry" for playing that "Ni--er music".

 

And although never a big Elvis fan, I still thought it singular that the country music world, after years of razzing and berating Elvis and his rock'n'roll career would turn around, some nearly 20 years AFTER his death and place him in the country music hall of fame. claiming, as I heard in one "record offer" commercial, "Elvis was a COUNTRY BOY, and LOVED to sang a country sawng." While all that might be true, the fact remains that the country music world wanted and had NOTHING to do with him while he was alive. Burns me up to think of such duality.

 

And, as I just about a post or so ago mentioned "pop" or rock tunes that actually go WAY back in their origins, You know of course, LARRY, that The VENTURES' '64 tune "Slaughter on 10th Avenue" was a Richard Rogers tune from his 1936 musical "On Your Toes", didn't you? ;)

Whitefang

 

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I know a lot of farmers would not let their daughters go to the county fairs to see Elvis as he was playing that there colored music. But the story goes (as I have heard it), at the Grand Old Opry it was because he jazzed up Blue Moon of Kentucky too much and it took away from their idea of what country music was all about. They also told Elvis he couldn't sing very good at the audition LOL! :crazy:

 

Nope, I didn't know the Ventures version of Slaughter on 10th Avenue was from 1936, but I did know their version of Harlem Nocturne was an old jazz standard from 1939.

<---I liked the Sax version(s) much better. But our little 4 piece garage band played them both just like the Ventures covers, as we didn't have a sax LOL! :cool:

 

The Ventures did a ton of Beatles instrumentals and their drummer (Mel Taylor) tried to copy a lot of Ringo's style of drumming at the time the Beatles were in the spotlight here in the States...

and in I Feel Fine, that little guitar run they throw in out of nowhere, sounds like the Beatles lifted it from Johnny Rivers version of Memphis (July 1964) kind of like Eric lifting the Blue Moon lead for his little intro... LOL! :rimshot:

 

I get a kick out of the B side of Hound Dog being Don't Be Cruel...I know a ton of fans liked the B side as much or better than the A side and probably wore them both out LOL! :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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I think "Hound Dog"/"Don't Be Cruel" was one of those "double A side" type deals, you know, like The Beatles' "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"/"I Saw Her Standing There" deal. You know, like how both sides of the single reach #1 at the same time?

 

"Harlem Nocturne" was covered by a TON of people. Even your boy BRIAN SETZER did a version, but I can't think of the CD it's on. And that band that played at my Uncle's downstairs bar/club (and they had a sax player) did it. Cool piece.

 

That guitar run in "I Feel Fine" you say sounds like it was "lifted" from Johnny Rivers' "Memphis"? Well, listen to LONNIE MACK's instrumental version of the song(March, '63) and you'll hear it in THERE as well! :D

 

So, I guess it's a matter of "WHO lifted from WHO"! :D

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I think The Beatles were more into Chuck Berry as far as lifting the covers LOL! But they could have lifted that little run from Johnny Rivers July '64 or from The Ventures August '63 or from Lonnie Mack March '63. My vote is +1 for Lonnie Mack as he wrote it LOL!

 

Elvis and The Beatles probably had a whole lot of B sides that were as good as the A sides LOL!

 

That YouTube link of Nocturne by The Viscounts is the one I'm most familiar with...I think the sax out does the other instruments (i.e. guitar, piano, etc.) hands down... :cool:

 

 

Take care, Larryz
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I think "Hound Dog"/"Don't Be Cruel" was one of those "double A side" type deals,

Whitefang

 

My very first record purchase, 45 RPM, wore it out after school every single day until the rest of my family got sick and tired of hearing it. Sophomore year as I recall. 1956 or so.

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I never bought a Beatles tune until Sgt Pepper. I can remember on the way home from Atlantic City we popped that tape in and listened. We were hippies back then, and my brother in law and I went shopping some 40 miles south on the Garden State Parkway to the nearest record shop in AC. When A Day In The Life came on, it floored us, that is when I became a Beatles fan. One of my favorite bands to this day. I still listen to their stuff frequently.

 

I got a hold of the Beatles Love Album which is a remix and cut and pieced version of their studio tunes Redone by Sir George Martin's son for the cirque du soleil las vegas Beatles Love show at the Mirage in Vegas which I saw 2x. Great album the way he rearranged it.

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"I Want To Hold Your Hand" was MY first Beatles purchase. Bought it the day after first hearing it on my bedside radio in Dec. '63. THAT'S when I became a fan.

 

So, what TOOK you so long, DBM?

 

LONNIE MACK wrote "Memphis", Larry? That'll sure surprise Chuck! :D Unless you were just referring to that "little run". Story I learned was that Lonnie was sitting around in a studio after a session and he and some of the guys were just fooling around with it as some kind of "jam" to kill some time and someone thought it was good enough to put on tape and press as a single! :D Looking it up it was that his band was in the studio as a backing/session band for some R&B girl group called The Charmaines.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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