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RINGO


whitefang

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Yeah I know, drummer not guitarist....

 

But ANY surviving Beatle's birthday deserves mention 'cause we're probably glad that at least TWO of 'em are still with us to get it recognized.

 

Anyway, happy 76th Mr. Starky. :)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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My wife, who was born in 1941 and pretty much the same age as The Beatles' are (or were), figured that when they got so big, and all the kids at least ten or more years YOUNGER than her were such big fans, also figured the guys in the band were some years younger than HER too. She was surprised to learn they were all about the same age!

 

She never really knew too much about them until I sat her down and we watched a tape of "A Hard Day's Night" together. And to MY surprise, and in spite of most(if not all) of the girls thinking PAUL was so cute, SHE thought RINGO was simply "adorable"! :D

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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The Beatles wouldn't have been the Beatles without Ringo. We must celebrate every birthday that our musical heroes have, we are losing so many of them every day now. Happy birthday Ringo!
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Sad about that-humans really are the dogs of the universe. We`re cute puppies, breeders and dead, all in the snap of two fingers. No wonder we get along with canines so well.

 

Ringo is where he is partly by accident,and partly because he has never come across as anything but a good guy, someone you could have a beer and a chat with. Keeping that, and still staying in the cutthroat entertainment arena, deserves a lot of credit.

Happy birthday Mr. Starkey

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

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I remember BUDDY RICH, in a DOWNBEAT magazine interview, saying he preferred RINGO over drummer BILLY COBHAM, the "hot" drummer at the time, due to Ringo providing consistent and driving rhythm for the band, and not being "flashy" and "show-offy" as he felt Cobham often was.

 

"You're supposed to serve the MUSIC, NOT yourself!" was what he said.

 

And Lennon said something like, "...the best BACKBEAT in rock'n'roll working today..."(back around '66 or so).

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I remember BUDDY RICH, in a DOWNBEAT magazine interview, saying he preferred RINGO over drummer BILLY COBHAM, the "hot" drummer at the time, due to Ringo providing consistent and driving rhythm for the band, and not being "flashy" and "show-offy" as he felt Cobham often was.

 

"You're supposed to serve the MUSIC, NOT yourself!" was what he said.

 

And Lennon said something like, "...the best BACKBEAT in rock'n'roll working today..."(back around '66 or so).

Whitefang

 

I saw Billy Cobham live way back when. John Scofield was the guitarist-definitely plenty of flash but, I defy anyone to listen to his work with Jeff Beck and say he is not about a fat backbeat. Dave Weckl could get the same comments-so could a lot of drummers. It`s a matter of playing something because you can, or because you should.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

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Another one of my Grandmother's favorite "gems" was the addage: "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD."

 

I think this is sort of what Rich had in mind when discussing Cobham. After all, he WAS being interviewed at the time that Cobham was still with The Mahavishnu Orchestra( late '72 thereabouts) when Cobham's style was still more on the "wanking" train. Plus, NOwhere in my post did I allude to Cobham not being about backbeat. The backbeat comment was a referrence to Ringo by John Lennon several YEARS before Cobham was ever heard of!

 

And it's also a matter of what, or WHOSE style stikes your individual fancy. Personally, and in Ringo's case, I'd have made the distinction between Ringo and Keith Moon. Now, I like both, and can't say with any honesty that Moon WASN'T great, but sometimes I found Moon's style, like Cobham's, to be a bit distracting. I Do believe that's the point Buddy was trying to make. Further, I also preferred the style of Cobham's replacement when McLaughlin re-formed the Orchestra, NARADA MICHAEL WALDEN, who could also be a "wanker", but did so with a bit more subtlety. Listen to his work on Mahavisnu's "Apocalypse" and you'll hear what I mean. :)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I talk about drummers a lot with my drummer friend, Mike Anderson. He and I agree that Ringo was a great drummer for the kind of music that the Beatles played. Keith Moon was hands down the best drummer around for the kind of music that The Who played, just like John Bonham was without question the best drummer for Led Zeppelin's music. Could the Beatles have achieved the same level of greatness if Keith Moon was their drummer? Probably not. Keith or Ringo playing for Led Zeppelin? There probably would have never been a fourth album.

 

Another thing to keep in mind: The Beatles never used a click track to record. Ringo kept the beat, and I think he did a rather fine job of it.

I rock; therefore, I am.
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And of course, it's also a matter of what strikes your fancy.

 

MITCH MITCHELL for me, was my favorite of the bunch in those times.

 

But I've said it before----

 

Ringo's snare attack had what seemed it's own particular type of "snap" or verve, if you will, that other drummers of the time( and since) seemed to lack. Others just seemed to be simply hitting the snare. RINGO kinda made it POP out at you.

 

Call it personality, verve or whatever you wish, but it was distinctively HIS.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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But I've said it before----

Ringo's snare attack had what seemed it's own particular type of "snap" or verve, if you will, that other drummers of the time( and since) seemed to lack. Others just seemed to be simply hitting the snare. RINGO kinda made it POP out at you.

Call it personality, verve or whatever you wish, but it was distinctively HIS.

Whitefang

 

And I'd call it the tea towel he draped over the snare to kill the ringing.

Scott Fraser
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But I've said it before----

Ringo's snare attack had what seemed it's own particular type of "snap" or verve, if you will, that other drummers of the time( and since) seemed to lack. Others just seemed to be simply hitting the snare. RINGO kinda made it POP out at you.

Call it personality, verve or whatever you wish, but it was distinctively HIS.

Whitefang

 

And I'd call it the tea towel he draped over the snare to kill the ringing.

 

I would also give credit to those other 3 guys for giving Ringo the inspiration to develop that snap and drumming verve LOL! One of the tightest 4 piece bands ever and I know each of them played off of each other and got better as the time rolled on. I'm wishing him a belated Happy Birthday too...The Beatles are one of my all time favorite groups! :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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I would also give credit to those other 3 guys for giving Ringo the inspiration to develop that snap and drumming verve LOL! One of the tightest 4 piece bands ever and I know each of them played off of each other and got better as the time rolled on. I'm wishing him a belated Happy Birthday too...The Beatles are one of my all time favorite groups! :cool:

 

They were the best, period. And Ringo was a crucially important piece in the puzzle. Remember that George Martin, upon signing them, informed Brian Epstein that he intended to use a studio session drummer because Pete Best wasn't up to the task. After swapping in Ringo, that discussion was ended. Plus, like the other three, Ringo had a charismatic personality, & when charm was added to their inherent musicality, the Beatles became so much more than just a band; they became the icons of an entire generation & sociological era.

Scott Fraser
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^ Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I think everyone our age and all the musical history buffs that will come along, will have no doubt that they were "much more than just a band." But it didn't happen overnight and they improved and changed their styles over the years setting the bar higher and higher. Some of the younger generation probably do not know why we appreciate them and hold them in such high regard. They could care less about Beatles music. For me, their music is/was phenomenal. I still remember when they first hit our shores and how new their music was. They will always be at or near the top of my list.

 

They were doing their own versions of covers like Mr. Postman and mixing in their own originals like I Want to Hold Your Hand, much like many garage bands still try to do today. That "back beat you can't lose it" probably came from Chuck Berry's Rock and Roll music. I don't think they knew early on just how much talent they really had. +1 all four of them were needed in order to grow into the icons that the Beatles became. I think George and Ringo deserved more credit than they received for their contributions to the Beatles sound...

 

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Take care, Larryz
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Another one of my Grandmother's favorite "gems" was the addage: "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD."

 

I think this is sort of what Rich had in mind when discussing Cobham. After all, he WAS being interviewed at the time that Cobham was still with The Mahavishnu Orchestra( late '72 thereabouts) when Cobham's style was still more on the "wanking" train. Plus, NOwhere in my post did I allude to Cobham not being about backbeat. The backbeat comment was a referrence to Ringo by John Lennon several YEARS before Cobham was ever heard of!

 

And it's also a matter of what, or WHOSE style stikes your individual fancy. Personally, and in Ringo's case, I'd have made the distinction between Ringo and Keith Moon. Now, I like both, and can't say with any honesty that Moon WASN'T great, but sometimes I found Moon's style, like Cobham's, to be a bit distracting. I Do believe that's the point Buddy was trying to make. Further, I also preferred the style of Cobham's replacement when McLaughlin re-formed the Orchestra, NARADA MICHAEL WALDEN, who could also be a "wanker", but did so with a bit more subtlety. Listen to his work on Mahavisnu's "Apocalypse" and you'll hear what I mean. :)

Whitefang

 

Someone clearly had a dinner of touchy-hold the feely.

Where exactly was I pointing the finger at you?

I was reacting to the quotes you posted.

Personally I like to say, well what I hear of someone in a particular setting, may not be down my alley (ya-if it`s a bowling metaphor shouldn`t it be down?) doesn`t mean they can`t go on to show other sides. In fact with guys like Mahavishnu I would totally expect it.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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Skip, no "touchyness" at all. YOU stated, "It's a matter of playing something because you can..." and my response to that was to emphasize that it isn't always called for. That's all it was. I'd suggest getting out of "facebook mode" and take things in their proper context.

 

As for the rest, the phrase is commonly "UP my(your) alley." which I'm not sure WAS originally a bowling metaphore. But no matter....In connection to Cobham and Mahavishnu, you'll note that the bulk of their numbers offered plenty of opportunity for each member of the band to fly, giving each their spot to solo. So, going "full throttle" throughout can sometimes do more harm than good. If you somehow got the impression that I was responding angrily towards YOU, than YOU'RE the one who ingested the "feely-free" meal. ;)

 

@LARRY: I don't think those "other 3 guys" had anything to do with Ringo's style, which was WELL established before anyone, including Ringo, ever HEARD of them. But I do agree that The Beatles were more than just a band. And that their influence was more than to music. They had a huge impact on other facets of American culture. Not only in clothing and hairstyles.

 

That "backbeat, you can't lose it" was indeed a line from the Chuck Berry tune. But "backbeat" was of course a long used term among musicians even BEFORE Berry used the term in his song. But---

 

Listen closely, and you'll hear John Lennon's subtle( or possibly subliminal) tribute to the origins of the genre. It SOUNDS like he's singing---"It's got a BLACK beat, you can't BLUES it...." :)

 

And sure. Even after all this time, I NEVER tire of hearing anything from my Beatles collection.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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@LARRY: I don't think those "other 3 guys" had anything to do with Ringo's style, which was WELL established before anyone, including Ringo, ever HEARD of them.

Whitefang

 

Well now, I think those other blokes DID have something to do with Ringo's style, because they provided very succinct song arrangements, & I'm sure, demanded that Ringo do the same with his drumming. I've always maintained that, while other drummers play grooves, Ringo played the song. He always differentiated the verse from the chorus, from the bridge, in ways I never hear other drummers doing. I'm speculating here, but I suspect very much that it was Paul, John & George pushing, or encouraging, Ringo to come up with ever more interesting parts as each new song unfolded, (along with ideas from the esteemed Sir George Martin.) Not saying at all that he didn't have his own very solid musical personality before becoming a Beatle, but would Ringo have been the Ringo we know in the Rolling Stones? Probably not.

Scott Fraser
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+1,000 Scott, and sorry Fang for not agreeing with you. Having played in a 4 piece band (many times a 5 piece) even at our low life level of musical talent, we each inspired each other to include our drummer, to reach new heights. You could see the smiles on his face when we hit the groove. I'm sure Ringo was at his best before joining The Beatles...(NOT)...LOL! There is no doubt in my mind that Ringo improved greatly by being in the company of the other 3. Like Scott, I suspect they pushed him to new heights...

 

The others that inspired all of the Fab 4 (to include the drummer) were good old American Rock and Roll, Blues, Rockabilly, etc., songs from Mr Postman by the Marvelettes to Rock and Roll Music by Chuck Berry to Honey Don't by Carl Perkins. @ Fang, You can hear those black blues influences as well in their own songs like Oh Darling by Paul McCartney... :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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WF

I know you have a kink in your catheter about facebook, but sometime you`ll have to explain what `facebook mode` means. Meanwhile-

 

" Plus, NOwhere in my post did I allude to Cobham not being about backbeat. The backbeat comment was a referrence to Ringo by John Lennon several YEARS before Cobham was ever heard of!"

 

Nowhere in your post did YOU allude?I thought you were posting comments from other people. Did I miss one of yours? I think when someone says, `It`s a matter of playing something because you can...` in response to a post about professional drummers-unless you`ve been holding out on us and you are one too-most native English speakers would assume the `you` is not meant personally. You interposed yourself between the comments you posted and my reply to them. Your serve.

 

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

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I saw something on You Tube where other drummers paid tribute to Ringo, and a couple of things where he explained his approach to drumming. It was something he took - and probably still TAKES - very seriously.

Like the other three Beatles, his parts were so well integrated into the tunes themselves that the average person probably didn't notice how well crafted they were. They weren't showoffs, but instead came up with things that were MEMORABLE - not always easy to do!

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Skip: In one of your posts you stated something like---

 

"I defy anyone to tell me Cobham wasn't about BACKBEAT" And I think I responded with something about nobody ever asserting that opinion. And adding Grandma's little ditty was a "coverall" response to the also overused excuse that over the last 10 years or more that people would give for doing something that sometimes might be seen by others to be unseemly. You know---how many times have you heard someone say, after being asked, "Why did you DO that?" dismissively say, "Because I CAN."

 

My"facebook mode" comment is a referrence to one of the main reasons I quit bothering with it was due to too many nitwits taking too many innocuous posts of mine so far out of context it'd cause useless "brou-ha's", much like this one is getting to be. And another facet to "facebook mode" is that most of those heated discussions could and should have been exchanged in the "messages" feature( like PM's here) instead of in the open forum where it seemed the protaganists did so in order to build alliances and somehow appear "heroic".

 

ERIC: I'd add that a notable, and NOBLE thing about Ringo was how he used his personal restraint to lull people into thinking(at the time) that he was merely an adequately competent drummer, and NOT the skilled craftsman people eventually came to realize. When Ringo became ill during one wing of a tour and was replaced temporarily by Jimmy Nichols( I think the name was), critics at the time who were able to HEAR the Beatles' performances said that while Nichols well kept the beat, the songs played seemed to lack the LIFE Ringo brought to them. :)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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It`s not a useless brou-ha. It`s establishing the facts behind the comments-which if I recall correctly, I was called to task about publically.

 

This quote from Mr. Rich:

 

"You're supposed to serve the MUSIC, NOT yourself!" was what he said.

 

Is not saying in so many words, but for drums that comment is EXACTLY about solid backbeat. I know this situation-I was in a band in N.Y. with that kind of drummer. He was primarily a percussionist, great at complex rhythms but he found solid beats boring. Maybe it`s the M.A. in Physics, I don`t know. We are still friends, I often stay at his place during vacation breaks. But you know-what is anyone supposed to do with that? and what killed me is, no one seemed to think of it as anything more than a tradeoff-okay he can`t provide a solid floor for the entire band, but he can KILL it in 11/8.

 

Um...your lawyer has never represented anyone but DUDE....you HAVE to see him at a poker table...

 

To another point-in a musical context like fusion in particular, a solo space as you mentioned, is an opportunity to explore and extend and interplay with the other elements at hand. Deciding to be subtle with the basic rhythm-unless the other instruments are doing it too-would come off as a jarring incongruity.

 

Now unless there was something else, I`m content to let the matter rest.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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Hell---I'm not only willing to let the matter rest, I'd like to see it do a "Rip Van Winkle"!

 

But we ARE all in agreement about our love and admiration of RINGO's work, so it's all good.

 

But, talk about "drum wankers", one "basement band" I was in had a drummer who seemed to play EVEY song using three or four different time signatures in the span of ONE BAR! :D

 

Our lead guitarist used to quip, "He's an off-beat" kind of guy, which isn't really a good thing for a drummer." ;) But we remained good friends for several years, and he's the Godfather to my younger daughter. And like with many friendships we all have, over time we lost touch with each other and moved on in different circles. I haven't seen him since my ex's funeral 12 years ago.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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Kool, let`s consider any bickering in long-term cryogenic stasis.

 

No question about Ringo-I believe he sat in with Tom Petty for the song `I Won`t Back Down`? LOVED the drumming on that.

 

I think a drummer can add accents till doomsday-but doomsday, is the day when said drummer looses the backbeat. That was our friend`s problem-he needed a second drummer to hold down the floor.

Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

 

Skipsounds on Soundclick:

www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just thought of another track------

 

Ringo was probably the first rock drummer most guys TALKED about as a drummer.

 

Sure, we knew DENNIS WILSON played drums for The Beach Boys, but HOW Dennis played drums? Nobody cared.

 

Or....

 

Who played drums for THE SUFARIS?

 

Or...JOHNNY AND THE HURRICANES?

 

Or... THE VENTURES?

 

Get my drift?

 

So now, DON'T go searching on WIKI and come back here with the names like you knew it ALL ALONG. ;)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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Well we got Mel Taylor but he wasn't the Ventures 1st drummer and then we have Ringo, but he wasn't the Beatles 1st drummer either...ever hear of Buddy Rich, Charlie Watts or Don Henley? :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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You seem to let the point shoot HIGH overhead.

 

No, Ringo WASN'T The Beatles' first drummer. So, which Beatles tunes did Pete Best play on? Or...

 

How often did or DO you hear anyone talk about the drum work of Charlie Watts? OR Don Henley?

 

Or even Mel Taylor? ;)

 

And Buddy Rich wasn't a ROCK drummer.... :cool: and to head you off "at the pass"...

 

Neither were Joe Morello, Chick Webb, Gene Krupa and Max Roach. :cool:

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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