Korg Kronos vs Yamaha Montage

[jimmymio]

I'm not totally unjustified in hoping that pricey workstation would give a lowly, single-purpose slab piano a run for it's money

 

I had that 11 years ago when I bought the Yam S90ES. And, although not a workstation, it was well under $2k. Finally starting to show its age and I hate the thought of stepping down to Kronos pianos. Don't like the Kronos action as much either but maybe I could get used to it.

[Song80s]

I'm not totally unjustified in hoping that pricey workstation would give a lowly, single-purpose slab piano a run for it's money

 

I had that 11 years ago when I bought the Yam S90ES. And, although not a workstation, it was well under $2k. Finally starting to show its age and I hate the thought of stepping down to Kronos pianos. Don't like the Kronos action as much either but maybe I could get used to it.

 

wot ?

 

Stepping down to Kronos pianos ?

 

its not 1999 Triton anymore

[aronnelson]

The S90ES did have a great piano for live. The mistake many make is that you don't have to use the the Kronos pianos if you don't want to. Just get a 3rd party piano. That's the beauty of the Kronos, it's a killer keyboard period. For myself, I have tweaked some of the Kronos pianos but overall I agree with timwat - when I hear the replay, it's great, but when I am playing it.... it's ok. Will be playing a Montage as a rental in Japan - will see how that goes - sure it will be great.

[timwat]

As Aron says, the Kronos can work on a gig for pianos. It's just not my favorite. Now, I have several of Busch's pianos loaded in the Kronos, and Aron is also correct that it provides tons of options. And I just played my personal piano program (an edited version of Busch's stellar work) at last night's gig on Virtual Insanity (I love that exposed piano line).

 

The point is simply for me on a live gig, if I load up my best Kronos piano and sit it side by side with the stock CP4, I'm going to spend all night on the CP4. At that point, sample layers, looped vs. unlooped, and all the other features the Kronos offers doesn't matter. The CP4 is a significantly better piano option.

 

And I don't find that really reasonable based on the price of the Kronos. My personal opinion, I own both and neither is going away soon.

 

Tim

[jimmymio]

Any opinions on the Kronos action?

[CEB]

Which one? Weighted?

[timwat]

Yes. Now, it's worth mentioning I have an original K73, and that version of Korg's RH3 action has been upgraded already.

 

That being said, I find it decent but not stellar. It isn't nearly as fast as the CP4, nor the old Casio PX3 I gigged into the ground. I find it quite suited for everything I do except jazz.

 

I'm also mindful that I have an embarrassment of riches in terms of choices, and remember gigging on a mushy Rhodes action and a Helpinstill portable upright that sliced my hand open.

 

So I realize just having this much horsepower in one keyboard is amazing, and the weighted action is good enough...and having played the updated version in stores, the newer RH3 is substantially better, it feels to me.

 

Tim

[jimmymio]

Which one? Weighted?

Yes, weighted. And, does the X version have the improved action or only the newer Kronos 2?

[timwat]

Something in my head reminds me they actually upgraded the RH3 late in the run of the original Kronos. If my memory is correct, that would mean ALL Kronos X and Kronos 2 share the upgraded RH3. But my memory is for shit these days.

 

Perhaps someone else on the board can confirm or correct me?

[bennyray]

I had a KX 88 and upgraded to K2 88 and the action is much better. The new RH3 keybed is much quieter.

[CEB]

It is OK. ... I nitpick stuff. When I ask I want to know dislikes and weaknesses because marketing people will give you all the positives.

 

I think it is too stiff in the bass. I prefer the balanced action in the Motif/Montage over the RH-3 for something like the Kronos. I actually like the RH-3 better in the SV-1. It is just because of the way I use the Kronos. Grading really doesn't serve any purpose. I only use a piano program 2 times a night and I do a ton of synth splits. But it still is not slow. I do a lot of leads across the range of the board. I still wish the bottom was less firm.

 

I like the SV-1 a lot.

 

Usually when I get a new board I hate the action for about a week or two. I warmed up to the RH-3 after about 3 days. I don't like change. LOL I think action is fine. I just nitpick.

[Dave Ferris]

Borrowed the original Kronos 73 when they first came out as I was thinking of going with it over the CP5, which I was using back then.

 

Played the Korg on maybe 5 gigs, all jazz but of varying intensity and musical quality. I also owned/tried the SV1 twice, 16 months apart.

 

I can play on the Korg keyboards and like certain aspects about them but given the preference - Yamaha all the way for sound and playability. I couldn't wait to get back to the CP5 after the borrowed Kronos. I remember stumbling around trying to play the head on Confirmation, Recorda-Me and other tunes where you needed to be real precise with finger dexterity.

 

Haven't played the Montage but if it's the same as the Motif/balanced action, I've always preferred even the lower level Yamaha digital piano lines to it. But of course I'm coming from a strictly piano preference.

 

Unrelated but as most know from my posts - I haven't played any faux portable piano, for jazz specifically, and for live playing, that can stand next to the CP4.

 

My ears have become detuned and indifferent to synths, and generally the musical contexts in which they are most commonly used. But I'm sure between those two and maybe the Forte , you'd be hard pressed to want for anything.

[bob_sd]

I had a KX 88 and upgraded to K2 88 and the action is much better. The new RH3 keybed is much quieter.

 

+1. I hated the KX88 action from the day I bought it (was young and foolish...) just felt "mushy" to me and never got used to it. The SV-1 73 "new" RH3 keys are light years ahead, though not as fast as I would like.

[seanl]

 

 

I just acquired a M3 73 and a hard case for a steal. I wish Korg would make a rack mount Kronos as I'd love to use it with the M3 73 Keybed. Wishful thinking I guess.

[RABid]

I've never liked Yamaha action, owning both a Motif 88 and S90ES. This is why I never had a CP4 and avoided the 88 version of the Montage. I do like the action on my Kronos 2 73. It sits somewhere between the Roland and Yamaha action.

[jimmymio]

I've never liked Yamaha action, owning both a Motif 88 and S90ES. This is why I never had a CP4 and avoided the 88 version of the Montage. I do like the action on my Kronos 2 73. It sits somewhere between the Roland and Yamaha action.

 

Interesting because I recently played the Kronos and didn't like the action compared to my S90ES. My hunch is that I would get used to it though.

[RABid]

I've never liked Yamaha action, owning both a Motif 88 and S90ES. This is why I never had a CP4 and avoided the 88 version of the Montage. I do like the action on my Kronos 2 73. It sits somewhere between the Roland and Yamaha action.

 

Interesting because I recently played the Kronos and didn't like the action compared to my S90ES. My hunch is that I would get used to it though.

 

Not surprising. Most people on the forum seem to favor Yamaha action. I've always been in the "prefer Roland action" minority. Roland action always felt quicker to me. That is why I am glad that the Korg action is closer to Roland.

[Doerfler]

so, 9 months later, any movement on this front? Seems to be a fair amount of Kronos owners on this forum, yet I don't hear anything about the Montage. I'm considering a Kronos ( would be selling gear to acquire it, as I really don't need another keyboard) mostly because of the Karma engine. I like Yamaha action (will be keeping my CP4 for sure) but I don't need a FM synth.

[Song80s]

so, 9 months later, any movement on this front? Seems to be a fair amount of Kronos owners on this forum, yet I don't hear anything about the Montage. I'm considering a Kronos ( would be selling gear to acquire it, as I really don't need another keyboard) mostly because of the Karma engine. I like Yamaha action (will be keeping my CP4 for sure) but I don't need a FM synth.

 

I haven't noticed much Montage enthusiasm but I am a classic Kronos owner.

( I think Montage is missing important features and its over priced)

 

karma on the Kronos is a +5 yr old feature.product. You are much better off, long term, to get the Karma software.

 

The K2 is a popular board. However, If you are in no hurry, and wise with your $3000 , maybe wait until Jan NAMM 2018

 

[DulceLabs.com]

If it's just for straight performances, the two are pretty evenly matched. One may do organ better while the other does strings.

 

Where the REAL difference lies is if you use them in the studio. In that case, the Kronos really shines: 16 track MIDI seq, 16 track audio recorder and the Karma engine (although the Yamaha arps are nothing to sneeze out -- some are really cool).

 

When purchasing such an expensive board, you really need to do your homework. Read all the reviews, watch the videos, and get a lot of hands-on time. One of them will "speak" to you envenually.

[Synthoid]

If you are in no hurry, and wise with your $3000 , maybe wait until Jan NAMM 2018

 

The new Korg Romulus will be out by then. It's gonna be a game changer.

[Doerfler]

You are much better off, long term, to get the Karma software.

 

unless I completely misunderstand, which is a very good possibility, this software only can be installed in certain keyboards, it is not Windows or Apple OS based. I don't own any of the keyboards listed on the Karma website as compatible.

 

However, If you are in no hurry, and wise with your $3000 , maybe wait until Jan NAMM 2018

 

I'm not often accused of being wise, however even if I did wait 9 months until NAMM 2018, it would be at least 1 year until that product was available for delivery from now and I would have to be a first generation beta tester were it a new product and I would have to pay top dollar. Currently, ther are pretty good prices for "used" Kronos.

[Spotting Jonah]

Two things stand out for me - the user interface / structure, and the feel of the keys.

 

If you're a Yamaha guy, the flow is different to Korg's, and vice versa. If you're indifferent to interface / structure design, menus and layout, then like DulceLabs said - get some play time with both and one will speak to you.

 

As for keys - Yamaha is Balanced Weighted (All keys are equally weighted) whereas Korg is Progressive weighted (higher keys have less weight then lower keys, similar to a real piano).

 

Sound is so subjective between the two, no one can tell you what sounds good to you.

 

Lastly, don't wait for next year's shiny new toy. You are correct... that's a whole year of lost creativity. Jump when you're ready...

 

BTW, my vote goes to the Kronos... it's not even a debate for me

[theshinenz]

I currently own both, but have the Kronos on the market. For me I like the workflow of the Montage better, Im not fan of the Kronos interface, I cant stand the sample management. Its a personal thing but I can program stuff quicker on the Montage. As far as sounds go, Ive loaded the Montage with a number of XF banks I had, can cover most stuff, the synth stuff in Kronos is a bit better IMO but everything else is pretty even. The Montage is better build quality.

[midinut]

I am of the mindset of "why not have both"? You can get a Kronos 73 or 88 and slap a MOXF6 on top of it, or you could (depending on your preference of actions) put a MOXF8 on the bottom and a Kronos 61 on top and either way have the best of both worlds. The MOXF series have the same sound set as the last series of Motif's IIRC - maybe not the full Montage sounds but other than FM engine sounds, what's really new in the Montage? Just my two cents worth.

 

Also, regarding the Karma software, it can be had (for both Mac & PC users) and they have versions for the Kronos, M3, Karma, and yes, even the Motif's - including the MOXFs. Just make sure you get the right version. And it's not for everyone. If you find Karma inspiring and want to create your own Generated Effects (GE's) then prepare for a huge learning curve and dig in. Stephen has some great tutorials online for it as well.

[Doerfler]

then prepare for a huge learning curve

 

ain't no body got time for that.

 

Got the same info from Greg, holding off for now.

[aronnelson]

The Montage is amazing and sounds great. But for what you seem to be describing - I would go with the Kronos. I have one and it is perfect for what you are describing for your use. You didn't say which XF model you use, both are heavy keyboards once you go into weighted key territory.

 

The Kronos has had regular updates and still sounds great! I thing you would really like it. Lots of sounds available as well.

 

There is one caveat about the Kronos - there is a 2 minute startup time.

[richforman]

> MOXF8 on the bottom and a Kronos 61 on top and either way have > the best of both worlds

 

That's my gigging rig!

[SEA]

On the used market the best buy (IMHO) would be the PC3K8. You can find them under 2K.

 

As a classically trained jazz/rock/contemporary pianist I'm very picky when it comes to actions. A few weeks ago I picked up a used S90 ES from Sam Ash for $1,350 just for the action in my studio. IMHO it beats every action out there period! The pianos sounded great so I thought I'd try the S90 XS ($1,360) with a 45 day return from Guitar Center. I hated the sound of it and the action wasn't as good as the ES! Felt more like a Motif. The headphone DAC was like 1/2 the volume of the ES. It totally sucked so back it went.

 

I have tried the Kronos. The action is "Ok" but a bit sluggish. Next to the Montage there's no comparison. The Montage smoked every action there. It's very close to the S90ES. I tried them side by side (the ES and Montage) and both feel great. I also tried the Roland RD2000. Action is good but stiffer or harder than the rest. Montage was the best.

 

Next I'm ordering a refurbished PC3K8. The main reason is the S90ES isn't much of a controller where the PC3K8 is great as a controller and for live it's awesome. It's a very powerful synth. If the action of the S90 ES is better then I would keep both. If the PC3K8 is as good then I still have time to return the S90 ES.

 

In a perfect setup I think the PC3K8 and the Kronos 61 would make a nice combo. But if I had to choose 1 the PC3K8.

 

On a side note, I did try the SL88 Studio and the SL88 grand. They were HORRIBLE actions. The S90 ES blew them away. No comparison.

[ApprenticeGary]

I taught on a kronos 2 88 weekly at my friend's school. The action is very very good and acoustic-like. I don't temember sv1 or kronos 1 had so good action.