Voicing flat-9 chords

[WesG]

I sat in with a 10-piece last night that was playing Stan Kenton(?) Dectet material. Whoever the arranger was, dude loved his flat-9 chords, holy crap there was a lot of them.

 

I stumbled on an interesting way of playing these that I thought worked pretty well. So, C flat9 - CEGBb Bb Db or E Bb Bb Db depending on density-need (no guitar).

 

Anybody else ever given these much thought? I really liked having the dominant 7 and the flat 9 really far apart, thumb and pinky of my right hand usually.

 

This guy also liked C+b5-type chords. So like CEGbG#. Wierd. I mostly played the flat 5 and sharp 5 together in the same octave, guessing he was going for dissonance, and figured the root and 3 weren't really important.

 

Wes

[Gary75]

I play them (and I'm not a massive jazz know all by any stretch) with tritone in left and upper structure VI. So an A triad in the right hand in this case.

 

Is that a popular voicing for people?

[nickd]

I play them (and I'm not a massive jazz know all by any stretch) with tritone in left and upper structure VI. So an A triad in the right hand in this case.

 

Is that a popular voicing for people?

 

Yep, that's my go-to voicing too.

 

Adding the 13th (the A note) can sound a bit too 'modern', so sometimes I emphasise the diminished intervals more i.e. you'd play a C#dim chord over a C bass note to get the C7b9.

[Tusker]

I play them (and I'm not a massive jazz know all by any stretch) with tritone in left and upper structure VI. So an A triad in the right hand in this case.

 

I like this one.

 

I go into fits of apoplectic rage, when I see the many ways that a b9 is an incursion into dominant 7 territory by the diminished 7 ... that dark lord of chords, which has a distinctive sound, and lots of other ways to assert itself. Yet it creeps in, smearing the dom 7 with it's dark gooey texture.

 

So by all means, let's allow play that A triad allowing the A natural to slam against the diminished shape. Or we could allow an F# to do it, or a D# ....

 

Wait a minute. A, F#, D#? doesn't that make ...

 

.... yet another diminished shape.

 

Grrr.

 

Where are my meds?

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

So, C flat9 - CEGBb Bb Db or E Bb G Bb Db depending on density-need (no guitar).

Fixed.

[Legatoboy]

You can use a b9 and a b13 for any dominant in a minor 2-5-1 going to a minor 1 such as Gm6 lets say....the 2 in that would be a minor 7 b5.

 

I've been taking Jazz lessons for a while and the person I study with mentioned this to me last week . . . I'm not a complete jazz maven by any means either but some has gotten in for sure!

 

So AM7b5 > D7b9b13 >Gm6 . . . .

 

In the Kenton material was he lading on a Minor 1 or a major, curious?

[Brad Kaenel]

When I'm comping in a big band setting, playing two-handed voicings, I almost never include the root tone (unless it's way down in my left hand somewhere). So I usually think of dominant7-b9 chords as diminished chords with an altered bass.

 

For example, C7b9: C-E-G-Bb-Db

Becomes: E-G-Bb-Db / C

 

That gives you a standard diminished chord (pick your favorite inversion) over a constant bass note. All things being equal, I would usually comp a C7b9 like this:

 

C-G (left-hand), Bb-Db-E-G (right-hand)

[musicbysterling]

One of my favorites is playing them sans the root, so a D7b9 would be F#, C, F, A

Using this voicing, moving up in minor thirds makes for a tasty flourish

[Reezekeys]

One of my favorites is playing them sans the root, so a D7b9 would be F#, C, F, A

Using this voicing, moving up in minor thirds makes for a tasty flourish

That's a #9 you got there, not a b9! Make that F an Eb and you'll be in business.

[musicbysterling]

One of my favorites is playing them sans the root, so a D7b9 would be F#, C, F, A

Using this voicing, moving up in minor thirds makes for a tasty flourish

[J_tour]

I don't know, I like the b9 either on top or somewhere in the middle, I guess. So, like, on a G7b9, (from bottom up), B D# F Ab, or F Ab B D(sharp or plain), or even Ab B D G.

 

Hard to say, really. I guess a go-to RH partial voicing always seems to be (for G7b9), just B D# Ab, and then whatever in the LH.

[U.Honey]

I'm getting confused reading this thread. What is a flat-9? Is C flat-9 same as C9b5? Or, is it C7b9?

[richforman]

Yes it's basically (I'd say, could be wrong) shorthand for 7b9.

Very distinctive sound.

[Reezekeys]

It's usually notated C7b9. I don't think I've ever seen "Cb9" unless the flat sign was big & right next to the C. Meaning B9!

[marino]

I play them (and I'm not a massive jazz know all by any stretch) with tritone in left and upper structure VI. So an A triad in the right hand in this case.

In an orchestral setting, I would avoid playing extensions which aren't specified, because you never know what other instruments could be doing. In this case, the saxes could play a b13 (Ab) against that chord, for example, so better not to take chances.

 

A few possible voicings (bottom to top):

 

G - Db - E - Bb

Bb - Db - G - C - E

E - Bb - Db - G - C

E - C - Bb - Db - G

 

etc, etc