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GSI Gemini Desktop/Rack


ChazKeys

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This is my final post on the Gemini issue as I'm going to return it as I think it's faulty. I have uploaded three files to Dropbox that demonstrate the problem.

 

I recorded them with a mic about 1 inch from the DXR12 horn and connected each instrument using the same unbalanced jack leads. Each instrument is on full volume on the unit and in the case of the Gemini the internal engine is also on full volume. Recordings are not high quality as I don't have decent recoding equipment but you can still hear the problem.

 

1) L-M-H settings. This is the noise recorded from the Gemini . DXR12 is turned up to 12 o'clock each time (that's halfway)

 

L-M-H

 

2) Noise floor recording - each unit plugged in then DXR12 volume to 12o"clock. Gemini H position, Nord E5D, DXR12 only, RD64 and SUB37 (Sub's a bit noisy too)

 

Noise floor

 

3) Organ Tone - Gemini L position, Gemini M position, RD64, Nord E5D half volume, Nord E5D full volume. DXR12 is set to a very low volume - just above minimum. MIDI messages sent for expression and volume CCs = 127 to ensure max output.

 

Organ tones

 

So you can make your own mind up - I don't think this problem can be caused by wrong impedance, not using a mixer or even balanced line. I reckon it's just got a fault on the analogue output stage as the SPDIF clean.

 

Thanks for all you input.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Right, thanks for taking the time. Yeah, for whatever reason... the combination of Gemini and your powered speaker is definitely noisy in the L, M and H positions. This isn't a 60 cycle hum either. But across the spectrum like white noise.

 

You also get noise in the headphone output... so the issue is post DA and at the analog outs. Maybe it needs better shielding?

 

You say the SPDIF out is clean. Which means the signal never goes through the DA, so it bypasses the analog stages in the unit.

 

We'll need some folks to chime in to confirm if this is unique to your unit or pretty much what we can expect from the Gemini hardware.

 

Thoughts from GSi?

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Interesting. Thanks for going to the trouble of supplying audio examples. It does sound like something is wrong. If you have a minute though, would you try setting the output switch to Low, pick a sound and bring the volume (in the Effects menu of the editor) down to 50% and see if the noise changes.

 

Though you may have a faulty unit, I want to reiterate that my Gemini and many others in use do not experience this noise.

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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Interesting. Thanks for going to the trouble of supplying audio examples. It does sound like something is wrong. If you have a minute though, would you try setting the output switch to Low, pick a sound and bring the volume (in the Effects menu of the editor) down to 50% and see if the noise changes.

 

Though you may have a faulty unit, I want to reiterate that my Gemini and many others in use do not experience this noise.

 

Surprised to find the noise level stays the same no matter where the volume is set in the Effects menu - same result with L-M-H. One other thing I didn't mention that seems to confirm the unit is faulty - when I turn the volume control on the front panel it's noisy, a bit like a scratchy pot on an old mixing desk. This doesn't appear at the SPDIF output either. The Gemini module that installs in the DMC may be sending digital audio. The desktop has the additional analogue stage which is where the problem seems to be on my unit.

 

Cheers

 

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The Gemini expansion card for the DMC-122 most definitely has DA and an analog stage where it provides L/mono R jacks and the headphone jack. No pot though for volume control on the card though... So it must be getting that data from an encoder on the DMC-122. I wonder if the volume knob on the desktop is dual function? Could it be an analog pot AND controlling digital volume for the digital out? Confused as to what could be causing the scratch - dirty or faulty analog pot, or a digital issue? Very strange. Maybe the unit is buggered.

 

Who was your dealer? Able to try another to compare, or are you finding the desktop overall is not giving you much you don't already have?

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
I just pulled the trigger on a Gemini desktop. I hope I don't end up with Chazkeys returned unit! 95% of what I use are pianos (acoustic and EP), Clav, organ, brass, strings and synth. The module offers updated modeled versions of all of these instruments and I have a Voce drawbar unit to control the upper drawbars and leslie of VB3 with the PC3's 9 sliders able to control the 9 lower drawbars. Hopefully I won't have the same issues as Chazkeys.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just received my Gemini desktop and spent about 4 hours dialing it in. For VB3 the C/V is the best I've heard of all clones I've listened to and sounds very much like my '57 B3 (which is probably why I like it). The leslie sim rotation is very good. The O/D is good if not over-used (the Vent still rules). Fortunately the leslie is good enough where I can foresee leaving the Vent home. Curiously I setup my Voce V5+ as well. With the leslie and C/V off on both units (i.e. raw tone) they were close and the Voce and Vent (w/o C/V) were close to VB3 and the internal leslie (w/o C/V). Who would have thought that? There was a difference though when C/V was engaged. VB3 has a nice purr that the Voce can't get with its C/V although C1 was closer, C2 not as close and C3 even further apart. Base tone though, pretty close.

 

Thd OP mentioned floor noise with his unit. It is not audible in the headphones but there is floor noise with the organ through my EV monitor using the analog outputs. Just like you can hear the leslie motor 'noise' with the Vent on close mic you can hear the same floor noise with the VB3 leslie, it is slightly more pronounced with VB3 than the Vent but is lost in the mix when playing. I tried both TRS and TS but the floor noise was about the same.

 

I loaded the acoustic piano (sample/modeling hybrid). It isn't the greatest piano in the world but more appealing than the long in the tooth triple strike. Extending the Velocity setting removed some of the perceived compression when playing and gave it a more dynamic feel when playing. The Rhodes and Wurli are outstanding, better than my PC3 which I thought was pretty good. The Clav is much better than my PC3's Clav. That is as far as I got today; first chance to gig with it will be next weekend.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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The Clav if I recall correctly is fully modeled, i.e. no sampling. Guido had indicated that the lower register on a real Clav is out of tune so his model mimics that. He had to adjust the model to get it more in tune but it probably is still not perfectly in tune. I really didn't check. One of the things I did notice is his faithfulness to key ranges. A D6's lowest note is an F and his model won't extend below the low F. I believe this faithfulness is the same for the organ, rhodes, wurli and acoustic piano in that he mimics the key ranges for these instruments as well.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

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So Dave, you're attributing the floor noise on the desktop to motor/amp hum or noise that's in the model? Possibly purposefully?

 

Are you also suggesting when you brake or bypass the rotary that the noise floor reduces? And that it's not there at all possibly when using other models like Clav, Wurly, and Rhodes?

 

Earlier it was suggested that this noise isn't present in the digital out (spdif). Any desire to tap this output with a quieter DA box than the one Crumar has included in the Gemini?

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Sometimes the line out of these devices is too hot for the mic level input of a mixer but too low for the line in. So you crank the trim on the line in and bring in the noise. I got this same issue using a win 10 tablet into a jbl eon powered speaker. If i optimize all the gain stages before the eon I can get the noise down but it is still not studio quiet. I use a $6 usb sebrent sound card the size of a thumb drive. It's now dead quiet. Does the Gemini allow an external usb sound card? If not, you need a preamp to level match going into the next gain stage.

FunMachine.

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The desktop version of the Gemini gives the user control of the output level with an L/M/H switch. Apparently none of these stages balances well with trim on a powered mixer. At least that's what the OP found and shared.

 

The Gemini desktop doesn't have a USB controller, but it does have a digital SPDIF output which doesn't get involved with the stage on the card at all. OP suggest it might be possible to tap the SPDIF with a better DA converter before going to the powered monitor.

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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  • 3 weeks later...
I've had three gigs now with the desktop, latest one today outdoors. I've determined that there is no excessive noise with the Gemini. It is no noisier than anything else in my rig. A friend of mine came up and did a half a set so that I could listen to the Gemini from out front. He ran through the organ (internal leslie, no Vent), the Rhodes, the Wurli and the piano. The damn thing sounds incredible, even the acoustic piano sounded very good. The Clav is awesome and appears to now be "in tune" in the lower register. The realness of the sounds are amazing, everything sounds authentic. What I really dig though is the feel, the imperfections are built into the modeling. I'm bringing in one sound at a time so it will take some time before I have all of the sounds loaded and dialed in but so far I have to give a huge thumbs up. I wish there were an onboard editor rather than having to adjust things with a tablet, maybe Guido can take the mojo editor and expand it's use for the Gemini. I know of no other keyboard that has as authentic sound for the electromechanical instruments as this module.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Here's a quick video of my buddy playing my rig yesterday using the Gemini acoustic piano patch. Even competing against the Marshall amps the piano still cuts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.ray.568/videos/10208838693298495/

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Here's a quick video of my buddy playing my rig yesterday using the Gemini acoustic piano patch. Even competing against the Marshall amps the piano still cuts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.ray.568/videos/10208838693298495/

Unavailable... maybe you have to be one of his facebook friends to see the post...?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 1 year later...

For those of you who may still be interested in the Gemini..... I sold mine last year and regretted it despite the noise issues. So I managed to get another one and although its a similar age (the serial number is only 7 higher) to my old one I have to report that this one is much quieter - even using unbalanced cables. I have 1.16 installed and Im enjoying playing it again. Clavs in tune, and the Wurly has a bit more vibe. I still think the organ has the edge over the Legend but not much in it. But I wonder if it will be discontinued like the Burn.

 

I dont think they sold many , my serial number is below 20. But I still think its a bit of a Gem!

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According to Guido there should be a new update in the next 10 days that will improve the leslie simulation. He has already added this improvement to the Mojo. He promised it for the Gemini owners by the end of March. Stay tuned.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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