Songwriting

[DocPate]

I don't know how many here are songwriters, but for those who have composed/written lyrics or melodies, where do you get your inspiration?

 

I was reading through the thread on Music Players Forum - Guitar Players, on the Hank Williams song. This made me start to think about where I got my inspiration for songs. Many of the songs I write come from life experiences and most begin with some lyric line that triggers the thought process. I may write the lyric down in a notebook and not react to it for several months or even years. But one day I read through some of the notes and that day generates the creative juices enough to write the first set of lyrics.

 

Yes, I seem to always write the lyrics first, then decide how best to tie those lyrics to melodies...is it country, folk (Americana), rock and roll, or blues... From there I will try to develop a chord progression and rhythm that fits the mood of the song.

 

That may just sit around on a tape (or soundclip) for some time before I get the creativity to actually refine and record the song. Usually, after several rewrites and changes to tempo, chords and/or intro, break, outro leads.

 

Very rarely do I write a song and record it the first time out.

 

 

What's your methodology?

[hurricane hugo]

My process is more like sculpture: I have a song idea that's made up of emotion and noise, and I chip off the parts that aren't the song.

 

The bad part is that it usually takes a long time per song.

 

The good part is that it's easy to tell when it's done.

[Sharkman]

I have written a few songs, and came up with many ideas for songs that I never finished. On the lyrics side, I either think about personal experiences, such as a former girlfriend, or sometimes I'll hear or think of something that just sticks out in my mind. A good example of this would be several years ago, when I heard a woman use the term "human sewage". I mentioned that term here, and soon, Pink Jimi Photon came up with some lyrics that used human sewage, and it sounded pretty good. I wonder if he ever used those lyrics in a song?

 

I've been working on an instrumental song that is based on a 1-4-5 chord progression in the key of D. The big problem is that it's such a vague idea that I can't yet decide on which way to go. Maybe one of these days I'll get serious about finishing that song, and see what happens.

[DocPate]

It's not about how you think others will feel, it's more about what is inside you that needs to be expressed. At least in my humble opinion.

 

Sharkman, maybe your thoughts about the tried and true 1,4,5 progression in D major is too limiting. Try some minor progressions and throw in some 7th chords. To resolve a melody on those progressions - I've found trying to resolve the 4th can be extremely limiting.... but when I use a 7th it becomes somewhat more real emotionally. Now that's a simple solution that gets ME started, and will usually lead to a totally different chord progression, key or mode. Plus, it makes the lead creation (intro-outro-break) much more meaningful... Just my opinion

[Larryz]

My method is called procrastination...I will get with the program some day but I have other pressing family issues right now that are in my way. When the deck is cleared for take off, I'll start flying again. I have written many lyrics and tossed them off the bridge and let them float down stream. I still have one song in my mind that I wrote using a keyboard (and still remember some of it) that was up to my standards but it would not interest others I'm sure LOL! I jot down my own chord progressions from time to time and jam over them...

 

I like arranging cover tunes and writing my own backing chords and boogies. I write my own versions of instrumentals too. By doing this I have come up with a couple of progressions and backups within the cover tune that can be used for an original song using the cover tune as inspiration. Not stealing LOL! So my flight plan is to purchase a software program like Band in a Box 2016. I get inspiration from the rhythm section of Bass and Drums then work on the tune. You have to have a good beat and it has to be easy to dance to as the old Dick Clark rating system goes...anyway, I'll get with the program when I can't play guitar anymore...sooner if I get the time LOL!

 

Thanks for starting this tread Doc! I'm always interested in reading ideas from fellow song writers!

[Caevan O’Shite]

I have to have a particular singer's voice in mind to write a complete song with lyrics; otherwise, it'll wind up sounding- to me- too much like an imaginary unreleased out-take from some known band's/artist's sessions for a famous album, and I'll be unhappy about that. I don't like to sing most of the time, so I'd need a singer that I'd be working with- hopefully I'll have that going in the near future when I put together my OWN band for doing mostly original material.

 

As for guitar riffs, chord sequences, etc. for a structure to base a song on, I do that a LOT. For me, on guitar, I hear something in my mind and try to figure out how to play it; or I have a conceptual idea, such as, 'here's a melody, I need to make a series of chords with that dictating the voice-leading', or 'what if the lowest or root notes in a sequence of chords went down step-by-step, while the highest notes continuously alternated back-and-forth between two notes with each chord'; whereupon I find the notes on my fretboard, find how to make that happen, and then filled in the notes in-between those low and high notes to make a complete sequence of m7 and Maj7 chords.

[DocPate]

Who knows Larry, maybe this thread will provide inspiration for someone to write that chart topper!

 

Perseverance is the key I think!

[Larryz]

Who knows Larry, maybe this thread will provide inspiration for someone to write that chart topper!

 

Perseverance is the key I think!

 

+1,000 Doc, Hopefully someone out there will come with a chart topper! It is getting hard to do these days as you have to break into the mix that the promoters and producers have defined as to who gets in with regard to the different genres...I'm anxiously waiting for something or someone new that can get my juices flowing again!

[DocPate]

 

+1,000 Doc, Hopefully someone out there will come with a chart topper! It is getting hard to do these days as you have to break into the mix that the promoters and producers have defined as to who gets in with regard to the different genres...I'm anxiously waiting for something or someone new that can get my juices flowing again!

I agree Larry. But Rock and Roll began with a couple of guitar players taking a little Boogie and making history with a little rewrite! So all you pickers, find a beat and see what we can come up with. I did post one of my "unfinished works" on the proboards and facebook pages. It's music waiting to happen... http://guitarplayersforum.boards.net/thread/100/songwriting?page=1&scrollTo=590

[p90jr]

"I just sit around and play 10 great songs, then if I'm lucky there's one for me just hanging there at the end."

- Keith Richards

[DocPate]

"I just sit around and play 10 great songs, then if I'm lucky there's one for me just hanging there at the end."

- Keith Richards

Now if we were all like Keefer

 

[desertbluesman]

Songwriting comes so easy to me. I think of something and it all just comes to me. I usually start it out on a backing track (ever since I have had digital recording computer capabilities) Then I listen to the backing track and write the lyrics. None of the songs I do took more than a few hours from inspiration to semi finished mix. (Well there is never a finished mix as long as I still have the multi track file) I don't mess with recording much any more although I still have my old DAW and it still boots.

 

Before I had a DAW I used to pen the lyrics and then write the changes on acoustic guitar. I traveled around the USA on surf trips, usually landing in Southern California for the winters and stayed at state campgrounds. I was a bricklayer so I could work anywhere, no resume needed. I lived in my van, and had a guitar with me at all times. If I wasn't slinging mud, or surfing, I was a pickin and a grinnin.

[DocPate]

Right on Dave...

[desertbluesman]

If I can find the time, in a few weeks I might be able to put the backing track together for you. I have some doctors and maybe a C-Spine surgery coming up. I will pvt message you my phone number when and if I get a spare afternoon. I can MP3 it and send that to you. I just need a few moments to hear what you are thinking. And then I can compose the drums and other instruments in Band In A Box. Render that to audio with samples and synths, and send you the finished BT.

 

Here is how I need it; Beats Per Minute and per measure???? (Slow blues, Medium blues, Fast boogie????)

 

am (How many measures total till 1st change)

dm (How many measures total till 2nd change)

am (How many measures total till 3rd change)

F7 am (How many measures total till 4th change)

E7 am (How many measures total till 5th change)

am (How many measures total till last change)

 

And one more thing how many times through the progression?

[desertbluesman]

No charge by the way in either credits or money. It would be my pleasure to give you an hand.

[whitefang]

I've "written" tons of songs in the last 40 or more years. Some good, some just OK and plenty of crap.

 

It varies. sometimes I think of a few lines that might be a good chorus, other lines a good opening and then try to come up with a melody and chord chart to wrap around it.

 

Sometimes I mentally create either a chord pattern or a melody that I then try to conjure lyrics for. THEN try to come up with some catchy title.

 

One I'm kind of proud of is one I titled "Hymnation", with a hymn-like chorus, the title a play on the word "damnaton", with the chorus borrowing from a tune Hank often sang. Goes like this:

 

I've seen darkness and;

I saw the light(there's the Hank connect);

I fit the battle 'tween wrong and right;

I've felt hatred, and I've known love and I;

Saw them together walking hand in glove.

 

I'd sing the line "I saw the light" with the same notes as Hank would in that song. Which in putting all the verses together was more or less autobiographical.

 

My FAVORITE lines in the song come from a bridge that go....

 

"Tried doing dope for a decade;

But it was all to no avail, and;

All my dealers wound up dead or;

Finding Jesus or in jail.

Whitefang

[splitting hare]

"I just sit around and play 10 great songs, then if I'm lucky there's one for me just hanging there at the end."

- Keith Richards

Now if we were all like Keefer

 

I recall reading in his book "Life" that either he or Mick (or maybe a combination of both) would actually come up with syllable sounds to go with the music and build off that. An alternate technique that creates words to go with the music. Singing a nonsensical melody line and hearing an "A" sound or "I" sound - or something to that effect.

 

I have never been a lyricist (or really even a songwriter since I seem to be better at embellishing on other bandmates ideas) myself but have written a few songs. For me it works best coming up with the melody and making the words fit it. And hearing syllable sounds in one's head can be a source of inspiration as well.

 

I think ANY technique or means of creating a song from blank paper, tape, hard disc, or whatever is worthy of consideration.

[desertbluesman]

I've seen darkness and;

I saw the light(there's the Hank connect);

I fit the battle 'tween wrong and right;

I've felt hatred, and I've known love and I;

Saw them together walking hand in glove.

 

I'd sing the line "I saw the light" with the same notes as Hank would in that song. Which in putting all the verses together was more or less autobiographical.

 

My FAVORITE lines in the song come from a bridge that go....

 

"Tried doing dope for a decade;

But it was all to no avail, and;

All my dealers wound up dead or;

Finding Jesus or in jail.

Whitefang

 

Now that is good stuff Fang...

[skipclone 1]

I don`t really have a set method-but I work as a writer aside from music, so I tend to want something to say when I write lyrics.

Musically I have built from a rhythm, in one case something I kept repeating to myself in the shower. In another case I came up with a melody, a chord progression and a bass line that fit together, almost at the same time. I have an instrumental like that too, it started out as a three-chord modulation which a few of you have heard-then a bass line and a melody to go over it. If one of them is missing, it`s not what I heard in my head.

If I feel like I`m repeating the same ideas or not feeling inspired, I try to seek out new experiences, not necesarily with music.

 

[Eric Iverson]

I haven't written any songs in a long time. There was a time, in an active Christian band, when I'd wrote some for the group to do.

Usually they were based on Bible verses, and just came to me (no, I'm not claiming DIVINE INSPIRATION for everything, LOL).

But nowadays I'm not in a band, and the church bands I could join want to do THEIR material the way THEY want it done, so it's hard to get motivated - what's the point of writing it if it's not going to be heard?

Generally, I worked on the theory that it's a 2 or 3 minute song, so find a simple clear message and try to say it in a memorable way; and musically it'd be something that the average listener could relate to. However, I've listened to lots of great music in many styles over the years, so I'd try to toss in something a little bit off the beaten path in terms of chords or melody sometimes, so it's not so damn bland and generic -which is one reason I hate CCM (Contemporary Christian Muzak as I call it).

I've never written a secular song, though I have written a few secular POEMS, mostly in an attempt at humor. Never put them to music; maybe I should - it'd probably sell better, LOL.

[whitefang]

I've seen darkness and;

I saw the light(there's the Hank connect);

I fit the battle 'tween wrong and right;

I've felt hatred, and I've known love and I;

Saw them together walking hand in glove.

 

I'd sing the line "I saw the light" with the same notes as Hank would in that song. Which in putting all the verses together was more or less autobiographical.

 

My FAVORITE lines in the song come from a bridge that go....

 

"Tried doing dope for a decade;

But it was all to no avail, and;

All my dealers wound up dead or;

Finding Jesus or in jail.

Whitefang

 

Now that is good stuff Fang...

 

Thank you very much DBM. Much appreciated.

Whitefang

[Larryz]

+1 Fang, Cool lyrics and quite poetic...

[skipclone 1]

I haven't written any songs in a long time. There was a time, in an active Christian band, when I'd wrote some for the group to do.

Usually they were based on Bible verses, and just came to me (no, I'm not claiming DIVINE INSPIRATION for everything, LOL).

But nowadays I'm not in a band, and the church bands I could join want to do THEIR material the way THEY want it done, so it's hard to get motivated - what's the point of writing it if it's not going to be heard?

 

Sorry , I have to disagree with this. Just because it`s not going to be heard today, is neither a forecast of tomorrow nor an excuse not to write it at all.

 

On a related topic to the rest of your post, Personally I don`t have an issue with writing explicit songs-IF it`s not just there to push buttons and/or move units.

I have exactly one song with the F-bomb.

I was sure there was another way to express the idea, so I tried every alternative I could think of. None of them worked.

It hasn`t been recorded yet and I already have a backlog but, sometime in the near future.

[whitefang]

I agree here Skip. Ouside of my wife, that sample I provided makes the members here the ONLY other ones who've been privy to anything I've done. But doing it is kind of fun, helps get things off my chest(sort of) and in it's way, somewhat cathartic.

Whitefang

[Larryz]

Fang and I were discussing songwriting on a PM and I thought I should post it here as well: Hope this is OK Fang:

 

I've forgotten most of my poetic license that have been locked in the trunk of my mind since 1969...

 

One of the poems was Today in San Jose

 

another was a Weird Creation

 

and a song You Could Be In Heaven

 

The lyrics are mostly forgotten but parts are still locked inside and come back to me from time to time...It's good to re-write and re-work your stuff until you get it just how you like it. Just when I think the days of recording a 45 and becoming a one hit wonder are about over, some kid puts out a YouTube video and becomes one of the teeny bopper biggest pop stars of all time LOL!

 

One of the lines from Today in San Jose is:

 

"For tomorrow you may wake up, today in San Jose"

 

Then in the song about 10 years later in life: "You'll be there tomorrow if you leave yesterday"

 

In Weird Creation 1970: "By and By we've learned to fly, across the sky of sunlit light"

 

and in the song in 1983: I'm writing about "your flying through the heavens baby, much to slow, put it on fast and let it rock and roll"...

 

Just a few of my lines...so, I was glad to see you have the poetic side. Keep writing!

[jimmac]

Thanks for sharing. Some very cool lines. Jim

[Larryz]

[whitefang]

 

We also touched on our influences. And one I didn't mention was my digging reading those old BURMA SHAVE signs on the side of the road way back when while we were heading down Jefferson to Sterling Stae Park when I was a kid. They WERE clever. A couple of my favorites:

 

"Sally thought;

The Perfect catch;

Is a guy;

Whose face don't scratch. ;

BURMA SHAVE"

 

"I asked out Ida;

But she refused;

I'd-a won my Ida;

If I'd-a used;

BURMA SHAVE"

 

See what I mean?

Whitefang

 

[desertbluesman]

:And one I didn't mention was my digging reading those old BURMA SHAVE signs on the side of the road way back when while we were heading down Jefferson to Sterling Stae Park when I was a kid. They WERE clever. A couple of my favorites:

 

I remember them as well, way back in the day, posted in the New Jersey woods on my way to the sea shore from Philly......

[whitefang]

Not only clever little poems, but a clever advertising program.

 

Of course, due to cost prohibitions, since the advent of the interstate freeway system( which would probably require huge billboards instead of small, unobtrusive roadside signage) they faded out.

 

Sadly, today's kids would probably require an "app" in order to see such things......

Whitefang