Canceled the Mojo order, sprung for the Lester K

[area51recording]

I got a Lester K a few months ago and, with our bands PA, I find that, with my Electro 3 and my settings, the best way to go is with the Electro and the Lester on Low.

When I want to pick it up I use the Electro's Fast, leaving the Lester (always) on Low.

 

I don't know if that sounds counter-intuitive or what, but the audience and band members prefer it 2 to 1 over the other leading brand!

 

 

 

 

So if I understand you correctly, you DON'T disable the E3's Leslie sim, but rather run it thru the Lester, with the Lester always set on the slow setting?

[ABECK]

... recall from the face of the DMC-122 is instant?. Can get straight to your organ and Rhodes sounds quickly? And your synth patches all recall quickly and you can preset your splits and layers?

Yes, there are 7 preset buttons for each manual. You can map those to the sounds you want. Though, 7 can get used up real quick. Then you'd just have to create another setup with other presets and call that up. There's no delay when selecting presets. None. There is a delay when selecting new setups (about 2 seconds or so).

 

I apologize for derailing this thread. Now, back to the Lester K goodness.

[ElmerJFudd]

Thanks, useful info, Abeck. Really useful.

 

With the Mojo61 being their first board to use the Gemini silicon (although with some features turned off) - and not as a plugin for an existing controller - I'm eager for them to figure out what works, what doesn't, get some user feedback, make some good decisions on user interface and features.

 

At which point they would stand in a very good place to bring us a single manual (and dual for that matter if there's a market for it) that competes with the Nord Stage 2 EX (88/HA/Compact) and the Hammond SK (88,73,61). I think the Gemini platform can out-synth Hammond and under-cut the price of Nord by a considerable figure. In which case, QC problems a thing of the past - and there's my next board.

[Dave Bryce]

You guys are all correct in that they are feeling growing pains. Tough to avoid, really.

 

There's so many things to get right - but when you're a small company, you're also very dependent on your suppliers to get you parts, and sometimes having to radically increase and manage those orders can be challenging. Some places can take months to ramp up their own production and supply parts (and that's assuming that you knew enough about how many units you were going to sell to have ordered the correct amounts), and then there's figuring out new assembly procedures to accommodate the increased demand....

 

There's more - lots more - but you get the idea.

 

There have been some QC issues coming up, but (as has been pointed out) the guys are all over it, communicating directly with folks having problems in some cases. This is not a big company, and both Andrea and Guido absolutely take this stuff personally.

 

Further, it's not at all wrong or bad for people to be able to expect to hear what's happening in the real world with products they're interested in buying, whether they're built by a small company or a big one. The buying model is changing - used to be that potential end users went to stores and magazines to learn about products, and were limited to their own experiences and the input of ads, salesguys and reviewers; now, they have manufacturer's web sites available to them, and forums like this one where actual people can share pre and post purchase experiences...and the manufacturers who are smart enough to pay attention can learn from the feedback.

 

It's simply invaluable.

 

One of the things that's worth noting is that they've given dealers priorities over direct sales. If you go to the Crumar online store, you see that Mojo61 isn't even available there, and won't be as long as dealers hare backordered and people are waiting.

 

I have very little doubt that they appreciate the continued support of the community, and feel safe in saying that they're all over this in just about the biggest way that they can be.

 

dB

[ShadowMan]

I wrote about the Lester K because it was, to my ears, surprisingly good and pleasantly different from the Ventilator.

 

I wrote my post for the same reason... it sounded great to me and significantly improved the sound of several of my boards. And while I couldn't compare it hands on with a Ventilator, for the price it offered stereo ins and outs, which not all Vent models do. (It was also less than half the price.) So for me it filled the bill.

 

People forget that a lot of gear ISN'T readily available for everyone to test in person, so real use reports here are valuable. As are liberal return policies for items that we may not be happy with!

[lightbg]

Here's my .02......

 

I ordered one from the candy store and it arrived yesterday. I played with it and it is indeed a great pedal. I tried using it with my Boss CE-2 chorus pedal to simulate "C3" on a tonewheel console, but I couldn't find the right knob adjustments to not sound "warbly". I finally just ran through the LesterK into my speaker and found it a big improvement over the onboard Yammie YC effect.

The one thing that kills me is there should be no debate or disappointment over not being able to go from fast to stop without holding the footswitch - the lower rotor sim takes almost a full minute to stop!

 

[video:youtube]

 

Jake

[theGman]

51: yes. Best sound with out setup. By running it this way, you of course can turn off either or both leslie effect with pushing 1 button on either. Happens sometime, but usually not.

[Outkaster]

You guys are all correct in that they are feeling growing pains. Tough to avoid, really.

 

There's so many things to get right - but when you're a small company, you're also very dependent on your suppliers to get you parts, and sometimes having to radically increase and manage those orders can be challenging. Some places can take months to ramp up their own production and supply parts (and that's assuming that you knew enough about how many units you were going to sell to have ordered the correct amounts), and then there's figuring out new assembly procedures to accommodate the increased demand....

 

There's more - lots more - but you get the idea.

 

There have been some QC issues coming up, but (as has been pointed out) the guys are all over it, communicating directly with folks having problems in some cases. This is not a big company, and both Andrea and Guido absolutely take this stuff personally.

 

Further, it's not at all wrong or bad for people to be able to expect to hear what's happening in the real world with products they're interested in buying, whether they're built by a small company or a big one. The buying model is changing - used to be that potential end users went to stores and magazines to learn about products, and were limited to their own experiences and the input of ads, salesguys and reviewers; now, they have manufacturer's web sites available to them, and forums like this one where actual people can share pre and post purchase experiences...and the manufacturers who are smart enough to pay attention can learn from the feedback.

 

It's simply invaluable.

 

One of the things that's worth noting is that they've given dealers priorities over direct sales. If you go to the Crumar online store, you see that Mojo61 isn't even available there, and won't be as long as dealers hare backordered and people are waiting.

 

I have very little doubt that they appreciate the continued support of the community, and feel safe in saying that they're all over this in just about the biggest way that they can be.

 

dB

 

Dave I was excited about the release and the ability to get a new product through Sweetwater. But with all this do you think they were ready? I mean an infrastructure and backbone is very important with this venture. Was the trigger pulled too soon? I know two pre-orders that have been cancelled because of the problems.

[Dave Bryce]

Dave I was excited about the release and the ability to get a new product through Sweetwater. But with all this do you think they were ready? I mean an infrastructure and backbone is very important with this venture. Was the trigger pulled too soon?

What does "ready" mean?

 

One of the problem a small manufacturer faces is that you simply cannot know how popular a product is going to be...or not going to be. Overbuilding can hurt you. So, of course, can underbuilding.

 

Also, I've been told repeatedly over the years that hiring part time help in Europe is not as easy as it is in the US, so that solution doesn't neceesarily present itself.

 

I'm the one who decided how many dealers to open. I only picked a few - Alto, B3 guys, Sweetwater, Perfect Circuit and Cosmo in Canada - so it's not like there wasn't thought put into this; however, once again, it simply wasn't possible to easily control or reliably predict how popular the Crumar stuff got as quickly as it did.

 

There are several solutions that can be put into place, but all the good ones take a bit of time. Rushing things is usually not the best way to go, either....and it's easy to see in the threads that it's not so easy for the folks who want their instruments to be patient (which I totally understand, of course), so you can be sure that these matters are being given more than a bit of consideration. I know I have a hard time when I'm waiting for something like this. Heck, I still haven't seen MY Mojo61 (although it is waiting for me at Gearfest).

 

dB

 

[timwat]

Not that you asked, but a thought occurs to me.

 

To my eyes this looks like a mismatch between operational capacity and distribution model. It sounds like, at present, Crumar operates as a semi-boutique manufacturer in terms of production capacity. But the distribution model chosen suggests a much more mature capacity, and thus sets perceptions and expectations in the market.

 

I might also suggest there are ways to determine market appetite, and manufacturers have been determining this in all sorts of domains for a while. Certainly there are famous examples of blowing the estimation (the Toyota Prius is one that comes to mind). And determining said appetite isn't inexpensive.

 

But I would think it should be expected that going to Sweetwater implies a certain level of production capacity already in place. At least, that the buying market will presume as much.

 

The good news is it would seem (at least on this forum) that the stellar product that Crumar is known for will preserve the good faith disappointed by the production delays. Which is awesome, other companies are often not so fortunate.

 

Would love to see Crumar broaden its market share in its intended space...you gotta love the prospect of passionate people who take business personally succeeding.

 

Would humbly suggest that whatever strategy you guys decide on moving forward (which of the several solutions you put into place), that explicit and specific communication is broadcast to the buying public to clarify expectations. There are only so many times you can allow perceived market expectations to be unmet.

[sagetunes]

 

Exactly. I love this forum and everybody in it, even some who have been banned.

 

Back on topic, I think the Lester K is interesting.

 

Bob

 

What do you have to do to get banned anyway???

[ElmerJFudd]

Be a total arse and spend your days attacking people personally. Single them out, harass them across multiple threads, then go after them in private message, or take it beyond the forum via email and other social media. Constantly use the forum as a pulpit for your political and religious ideologies. Krazy stuff like that.

[Dave Bryce]

But I would think it should be expected that going to Sweetwater implies a certain level of production capacity already in place. At least, that the buying market will presume as much.

Some might. Some might not.

 

Sweetwater carries all sorts of different manufacturers - big, medium and small. You don't have to only be capable of mass numbers to be sold by them, or any other MI/Pro Audio retailer.

 

If that were the case, none of the brands with which I work would be in there...and yet they all are.

 

dB

[timwat]

Fair enough. Certainly going Sweetwater isn't the same as going Amazon or Wal-Mart, due the market size for professional music hardware.

 

And SW has been good to me about providing ship expectations. But I do think it's fair when a buyer sees the instrument on SW to presume a certain level of availability (as well as support, after sale care, etc.). I trust SW not to sell vaporware, for instance (not implying at all that Crumar sells vaporware...that's just an example). It's part of the trust they've earned over two decades of dealing with them, and I expect why SW is a primary and choice distribution partner in today's MI world.

[Dave Bryce]

I do think it's fair when a buyer sees the instrument on SW to presume a certain level of availability (as well as support, after sale care, etc.). I trust SW not to sell vaporware, for instance (not implying at all that Crumar sells vaporware...that's just an example). It's part of the trust they've earned over two decades of dealing with them, and I expect why SW is a primary and choice distribution partner in today's MI world.

Certainly true.

 

That being said - delivery/supply issues on new products happens with the big guys as well for all sorts of reasons - especially when it comes to filling the pipeline with initial demand before there are any sales figures with which to do (relatively informed) projections. I've seen meticulously planned product launches end up in last minute holding patterns - sometimes lengthy ones - for reasons that still leave me scratching my head.

 

dB

 

 

[Doerfler]

What do you have to do to get banned anyway???

 

This is OT to this thread, but you seem sincere so I'll direct you to

This Thread

in the stickies section at the top of page one on this forum. There are only 4 posts, 2 from Stephen Fortner and 2 from Dave Bryce. Tells you everything you need to know.

[Outkaster]

Not that you asked, but a thought occurs to me.

 

To my eyes this looks like a mismatch between operational capacity and distribution model. It sounds like, at present, Crumar operates as a semi-boutique manufacturer in terms of production capacity. But the distribution model chosen suggests a much more mature capacity, and thus sets perceptions and expectations in the market.

 

I might also suggest there are ways to determine market appetite, and manufacturers have been determining this in all sorts of domains for a while. Certainly there are famous examples of blowing the estimation (the Toyota Prius is one that comes to mind). And determining said appetite isn't inexpensive.

 

But I would think it should be expected that going to Sweetwater implies a certain level of production capacity already in place. At least, that the buying market will presume as much.

 

The good news is it would seem (at least on this forum) that the stellar product that Crumar is known for will preserve the good faith disappointed by the production delays. Which is awesome, other companies are often not so fortunate.

 

Would love to see Crumar broaden its market share in its intended space...you gotta love the prospect of passionate people who take business personally succeeding.

 

Would humbly suggest that whatever strategy you guys decide on moving forward (which of the several solutions you put into place), that explicit and specific communication is broadcast to the buying public to clarify expectations. There are only so many times you can allow perceived market expectations to be unmet.

 

You said or asked it better than I did.

[bob_sd]

Anybody running supernatural organs in the Roland FA through the Lester K?

[tucktronix]

Hi Guys,

 

I had posted in this thread a few pages earlier that I was going to review the Lester K rotary sim. It was used with my Korg CX3 during a few gigs over the weekend. To sum up my experiences with this little bugger... wow!!

 

I first "took it out of the box" just this past Friday for an outdoor show with a blues band, did a few runs during soundcheck with the Leslie on chorale and a few more with the pedal on fast. At first listen, I can surely say that it gives the CX3 some serious balls! I had the volume knob at around 11 o'clock and with the drive knob cranked up a bit, I was able to dial in some creamy goodness. I can only imagine the sound coming out of the mains.. as I was getting quite a bit of positive feedback! As what Mitch Towne mentioned in a comparison to the Vent, there is a definite sonic difference. I do hear that "Leslie in the room" sound, most noticeably during last night's gig in a small club in town. My CX3 is patched through it mono and it sounds great coming out of my K12. Someone had mentioned earlier about the Leslie fast being sort of unnatural. Well, it doesn't sound all that different than a real Leslie. In fact, it behaves quite the same way in that the vibrato is not as "deep". I can only bet it would sound extra crazy with a stereo setup! My thoughts after a weekend with this thing, is this really $178????

 

Of course there are some gripes or shall we say, wishes. After having played through a Vent for several years and through a Leslie cabinet for several years before then, there are standards to be met. Surprised to say that there are only a few. Firstly, the sound is so ballsy that it's kinda difficult to dial in a smooth tone, especially in fast mode. When I had my Vent, I could get a nice, smooth tone with the middle drawbars pushed all the way up, leaving the 1st and last pulled out. I will probably have to work with it more to achieve this. Secondly, the pedal is pretty small.. making it fairly easy to hit the bypass switch inadvertently. I had mistakenly hit it a few times during a few songs. Again, only a few gripes.. none of which that are hard to deal with.

 

Overall, this was an excellent buy and I would surely recommend it to anyone who is considering a Vent. In comparison to the Vent, I would say that the Vent is marginally better.. but surely NOT $300 better. To say that I was blown away would be putting it mildly. I didn't know what to expect from a rotary sim below $200, and I sure as heck wasn't expecting what I heard last weekend. For anyone out there looking to get a Vent, I would definitely recommend giving the Lester K a look through. Very impressed, I give it 4 :) :)

 

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/tucktronix/13406936_10206038561035037_5423879697363582398_n.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/tucktronix/13450855_10208853323865951_6144511290883697417_n.jpg

[lightbg]

+1

 

My experience is roughly the same. I demo'ed it with my YC a few entries ago, and it does wonders for that. No pedal will ever have the presence of a 122 in real life, but this one nails it close enough to get by. My only nitpick is I wish they included the acceleration pot from the "G" model to the "K". As you can hear, the slowdown from fast to off almost takes the low rotor 45 seconds to fully stop. Otherwise, it's right up there with the other sims.

 

Glad I followed your lead and purchased one.

 

Jake

[AnotherScott]

I'm curious specifically about how it compare to the Vent, not merely in its rotary realism which is what people seem to be focusing on, but also in its overdrive which is something I really like in the Vent. Also, how much of a click noise to the foot switches make? My biggest complaint about the Vent is that those switches are noisy. It may not matter much playing full band, but if making use of it for, say, cocktail hour solo playing, it's loud enough to be distracting.

[Mitch Towne]

I'm curious specifically about how it compare to the Vent, not merely in its rotary realism which is what people seem to be focusing on, but also in its overdrive which is something I really like in the Vent. Also, how much of a click noise to the foot switches make? My biggest complaint about the Vent is that those switches are noisy. It may not matter much playing full band, but if making use of it for, say, cocktail hour solo playing, it's loud enough to be distracting.

 

I have them side-by-side here (Lester K and Vent II) and the switches aren't loud on either one.

 

The overdrive on the Lester is fantastic and easier to get rolling than the Vent (not saying that is better or worse...just an observation). I am a guy who cares less about how the simulation sounds on "fast" than how it sounds on "stop." The Lester sounds great on stop. The OD grinds really nicely.

[tucktronix]

I'm curious specifically about how it compare to the Vent, not merely in its rotary realism which is what people seem to be focusing on, but also in its overdrive which is something I really like in the Vent. Also, how much of a click noise to the foot switches make? My biggest complaint about the Vent is that those switches are noisy. It may not matter much playing full band, but if making use of it for, say, cocktail hour solo playing, it's loud enough to be distracting.

 

In comparison, I would say that both overdrive sims are equally as good, although I would probably prefer the Vent. But again, $300 is not worth splitting hairs in this instance.. just sounds a bit more "natural" to me. The pedal switches are not that noisy(personally, I didn't find the Vent's switches any noisier than any standard footswitch..??)

[Delaware Dave]

My biggest complaint about the Vent is that those switches are noisy. It may not matter much playing full band, but if making use of it for, say, cocktail hour solo playing, it's loud enough to be distracting.

I don't see the switches on the Vent being that noisy, even in a cocktail hour/studio recording session. In fact, the keyboard on the GEM Equinox 88 is noiser than the footswitches on the Vent.

[AnotherScott]

Mitch, Tuck, and Dave... the noisy footswitch problem is on the original Vent. The Mini Vent was okay, though I didn't like it as much for other reasons. Haven't tried a Vent II, which is what Mitch has. Tuck and Dave, which model Vents do you have?

[tucktronix]

Mitch, Tuck, and Dave... the noisy footswitch problem is on the original Vent. The Mini Vent was okay, though I didn't like it as much for other reasons. Haven't tried a Vent II, which is what Mitch has. Tuck and Dave, which model Vents do you have?

 

I had the original Vent and again, the footswitch didn't sound any noisier than any standard footswitch.

[ElmerJFudd]

Heh, and there we go. It takes a guitar pedal manufacturer who perhaps deals in much larger volume than a keyboard centric developer to offer a good Leslie sim pedal at $178.

 

On a side note, Hammond is about to rebrand their "Cream" Pedal as "Leslie K" this week. It will hopefully have a few improvements re: user feedback from when it was first released. And now, it will have to compete with Lester K at $178.

 

LESLIE K EFFECT PEDAL

For adding spot-on LESLIE rotating speaker sound to an existing organ, synthesizer, or keyboard workstation, the Leslie K fits the latest and greatest iteration of our larger Digital Leslie Cream pedals abilities into a simpler and more compact package. Four selectable cabinets cover the LESLIE 122, 147, and 760 models plus a user-savable preset. Adjustable overdrive is optimized for a hot-rodded sound if desired, and the maximum fast speed (Red Line) and rise/fall times of the virtual rotors are adjustable as well. The LESLIE K has mono input and stereo (or mono) output.

Price: $329 MAP Availability: August 2016

 

Ventilator II $499 US

Previous Hammond Cream Pedal $399 US

The GSi Burn is still at $399 US

Mini Vent II $349 US

Lester K $178 US

 

Other options.

Strymon Lex Rotary $299

DLS RotoSIM and/or RotoSPIN $299/$259

Tech21 Roto CHOIR $219

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2755424/Re_Leslie_Sims_in_a_Stomp_Box_

 

[Delaware Dave]

I would guess that the new Leslie K pedal is probably the same technology as the internal sim on the XK5. I can't imagine (although I guess that it is possible) that they would develop a new leslie sim engine for the XK5 then develop a different technology for the leslie K pedal. It would only make sense (and cents) that the technology is similar. So I guess if we have a clue as to what the Leslie K pedal sounds like then we'd probably have a clue as to what the XK5 internal leslie sim sounds like. According to the Keyboard mag review the Leslie K is an offshoot of the Cream. Of note was that the Leslie K was more realistic than the SK's internal sim. If in fact the Leslie K's internal sim is another step up then the XK5 looks like it really did hit the mark. Just wish it were more affordable........

[ElmerJFudd]

Hey, Dave. Is the review you're referring to in the latest print version of Keyboard Mag? Not finding it online yet.

[lightbg]

Here.

 

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/1183/review-roundup-rotary-speaker-simulator-pedals/58520

 

Jake