Changing Patches Live

[vonnor]

I'm curious to see how many gigging keyboard players do manual program changes in between songs and in the middle of a song. I see some folks pushing buttons and some have some sort of automated process for calling up patches/sounds.

 

Personally, I've been using an automated system since 1989. Until a couple years ago a DMC MX-8 Midi Patcher and now days Cantabile. I still see a majority of players out in the clubs are manually punching up their patch changes on the front panels.

 

What's your system?

 

~ vonnor

[CEB]

Kronos Setlist. I can increment patches either with the touchscreen or a footswitch.

[Delaware Dave]

I have a Kurz PC3. It has a Mode called quick access. My 10 favorite programs/setups are staring me in the face. Push one button and the next 10 stare you in the face. My bread and butter patches are on the first QA screen. Makes it relatively easy to move from sound to sound. The 2nd keyboard (GEM Equinox) is mostly used for organ trigger, brass and some strings. Not as 'easy' as the PC3 but very manageable.

[tucktronix]

Patch changes are done mid-song on my PX-5S. I'm able to do it quickly since I only use a handful of patches and the bank/program system makes it quite easy.

[brenner13]

Manual buttons and dialing up Registrations and Favorites for me. For a keyboard player, I'm technologically challenged.

[The Real MC]

Not all my gigs need automated changes.

 

For the automated changes, the old Kurzweil MIDIBoard master controller is hard to beat. All my patches are preprogrammed - program change, volume, filter cutoff, FX, etc. One button press and the next song is ready.

 

My biggest challenge was a theater presentation of Pink Floyd The Wall. I was the only keyboard player and I had my hands (and feet) full. If I didn't have the quick change feature of the MIDIBoard, my stage rig would had been twice as big (for those who had seen it, it was plenty big enough). The one button setup was crucial as I had to change setups three times in some songs. Once in a while I had to trigger parts from my bass pedals, and I manually changed my JLCooper MSB+ MIDI router to make it happen. The router can be changed over MIDI but I didn't have time to figure that out.

 

For the gigs where I am just playing Hammond and/or piano, I don't need the automated system.

[justin_havu]

PC2X in Setup mode, and K2000 in Quick Access mode.

[Legatoboy]

Just bought this to drive my PX5-S which in turn sends patch changes to my Nord 5D 61 and Blofeld Tabletop. Though the PX5s has patch chains they cannot be randomly accessed, just sequentially up or down with a pedal - one patch to the next only. I don't have time to move patches around all day as my set lists change per gig....so this just drives the PX5s which in turn drives the Nord and Blofeld. You can maintain it stand alone or with the included software...

 

You can set up Set lists w/ up to 18 'songs' per list...working like a charm so far! Just move the Up (or Down) arrow keys and you can move through the set list . . .fast and easy I keep it on the surface of my top board the Nord in the upper right!

 

Midi Mapper

 

http://www.musictechnologiesgroup.com/images/midipc_b.jpg

[Bill W]

Kronos Setlist. I can increment patches either with the touchscreen or a footswitch.

 

This...I use a footswitch.

[Moonglow]

Kronos Setlist. I can increment patches either with the touchscreen or a footswitch.

+1

 

I try to avoid mid-song patch changes by setting splits on my Kronos 88 and upper keyboard. Reduces potential error (e.g., pressing the wrong button, not hitting the touchscreen hard enough), but sometimes mid-song changes are necessary. A nice feature of the Kronos is that you can change a setlist program while holding a chord on the patch you are currently using, and the new program won't trigger until you play the next chord/note....which gives you more time to execute the change.

[Bobadohshe]

For my top 40 band I have always had to dial up my patch changes manually. I don't know of any other way it would work for me.

 

Our setlist changes order every night. Sometimes on the gig, our setlist changes mid gig. The thing I need to know more than anything is where each patch is and I do a pretty good job of that. Switching from my Motif to my Montage I anticipate a period where I'm having to relearn these patch locations and I'm hoping it's quick.

[stevie b]

I have a Kurz PC3. It has a Mode called quick access. My 10 favorite programs/setups are staring me in the face. Push one button and the next 10 stare you in the face. My bread and butter patches are on the first QA screen. Makes it relatively easy to move from sound to sound.

 

This is the process I use on my PC3K7.

 

I do have one annoying unresolved issue though.

When I switch from a program in the QA screen to a setup on the QA screen which includes a zone 1 patch. Zone 1 often has a very low volume level, and I have to hit the panic sequence to reinitiate the setup.

It's most likely operator error, but I have verified correct entry exit values on that layer. I have resolved it by only using setups on the QA screen, but there's probably a better solution.

[mate stubb]

http://www.musictechnologiesgroup.com/images/midipc_b.jpg

 

Couldn't find any pricing on this at the developer's website or ebay listing. How much was it, and how do you buy one?

[tucktronix]

I failed to mention in my last post that(with the new top-40 band) I use the "live setting" feature on my Fantom X6 for quick access to patches. The patches are arranged in order of the setlist.

[Sam Mullins]

For the last few years: Master Mode on Yamaha S90es/MOX/MOXF which sent program changes to Nord Stage 2.

 

Starting today, I'm reprogramming all my MOXF splits/layers to Combi equivalents on the Kronos. Will then use Combi/Set List to drive Nord Stage 2.

 

[Legatoboy]

http://www.musictechnologiesgroup.com/images/midipc_b.jpg

 

Couldn't find any pricing on this at the developer's website or ebay listing. How much was it, and how do you buy one?

 

It's $200 Moe. . .he makes them himself...I was surprised how good the whole system is! His software too! You have to contact him if none are up on Ebay, I believe he only sells through Ebay.

 

I contacted him I believe with an Ebay Seller 'question' I sent him that he answered, he was on vacation then and I didn't finally get it till after a week or so. He emailed me one was on Ebay after he finished it! His email is below... If he hasn't made any they will not be up on Ebay unless unsold...He builds them periodically and will make you one possibly if you ask! His name is Grant...tell him I (Tony Campo) recommended you . . .

 

(MTG) is: grant@musictechnologiesgroup.com

[marczellm]

I failed to mention in my last post that(with the new top-40 band) I use the "live setting" feature on my Fantom X6 for quick access to patches. The patches are arranged in order of the setlist.

And I use the Live Setting on my JUNO-G which then sends Program Change to the NS2. It's quite similar to the Kurz system described: 6 patches/performances are assigned to the 6 buttons below the screen, 6 more with Shift, and 20 banks of these 12 slots are available. At any given performance, be it worship, jazz-funk or anything, I arrange some banks of Live Settings before the gig.

 

In the wedding band where I subbed, the setlist is quite long and mostly fixed, so I arranged everything sequentially on the NS2 and it sent PC to the JUNO.

[Delaware Dave]

I do have one annoying unresolved issue though.

When I switch from a program in the QA screen to a setup on the QA screen which includes a zone 1 patch. Zone 1 often has a very low volume level, and I have to hit the panic sequence to reinitiate the setup.

Holy Moly! I've had the same issue except in reverse, when going from a setup to a program the volume drops, panic restores the volume. I even checked the expression pedal value in MIDI mode and it was sending 127 but the volume wasn't 127 until I hit panic. It's been going on for over a year. I couldn't find a pattern until my last gig when I figured out what sequence of events causes the drop in volume; for me it is definitely going from a setup to a program all while in QA. So last gig, in between sets, when I finally figured out the pattern, I went into the control setup and set the entry value (which was set to none) to a value of about 100. Problem solved....

 

I'd say for your issue set an entry value on your setups and your problem should also be fixed. I believe I already have entry values on all my setups so that is probably why when going from program to setup there is no volume drop but setup back to program there was. Now that the control setup has an entry value all programs are initialized correctly and the problem went away.

[synthizen2]

I'm still using the trusty old-and-moldy (but reliable!) DMC MX-8 Midi Patcher, triggered by a footswitch, for my prog tribute band. It makes patch changes to my 3 boards (QS8, Z1, Ion). I do set up splits on the QS8 for many things... but on the song "Dogs" by Pink Floyd, I have to hit that footswitch 7 damn times during the course of the 17-minute song! (switching between organ & strings on the Z1, and between "vocoder" mode and some Moog-ish lead sounds on the Ion). For most songs, though, it's one patch-change per song.

 

In my country band, things are much more simple... Two boards instead of one (the Ion is omitted for obvious reasons)... No MIDI at all... Just piano and organ... with a rare manual patch change for a string sound here, or a clav sound there... but mostly piano and organ all night long.

 

P.S. I know the QS8 is pretty laughingly long-in-the-tooth (not that my other synths aren't!), but I use my own piano and rhodes samples on a memory card that plugs into the back of the synth, and I like those sounds. But, I think I will soon be getting a new 88-key main board soon... Poking around for a used S90ES or similar. It just had better have some decent Mellotron and Rhodes sounds in it.

[EscapeRocks]

My rig: FA08 MOXF6.

 

I use my MOXF6 in Master mode. It calls the patches for itself, the FA08, and even Mainstage when using that.

 

I use the Melas total librarian to assign Master list order before each gig.

At the gig, I can either use the "+" button or a footswitch to run thru the patches in order.

 

Between my two boards, I have enough zones to not have to change patches mid song.

 

 

[wineandkeyz]

I use Master mode on my S70XS to call up patches and performances for itself and to send patch changes to the Fantom X7. Occasionally I have to change patches on the X7 mid-song, so I use its Favorites feature to be able to select a new patch with one button push.

[stevie b]

I'd say for your issue set an entry value on your setups and your problem should also be fixed. I believe I already have entry values on all my setups so that is probably why when going from program to setup there is no volume drop but setup back to program there was. Now that the control setup has an entry value all programs are initialized correctly and the problem went away.

 

Thanks for the info- I'll have to chase this rabbit again. Before I gave up and just starting using setups only, I confirmed that the zone 1 entry value on my setups were all set between 100 to 127, but the problem still persisted.

I searched the ksetlist group again recently and found the information below, which relates to assigning multiple controllers (slider/foot pedal) to control same parameter. I still need to check for this potential issue in my various setups

 

"If you have multiple controller sending the same MIDI CC (volume, for example), with different entry values, at setup expansion all those entry values will be sent... but you don't know the order, so the end result is unpredictable for you. For that, the best thing is to make sure only one of them sends an entry value, and the rest have a NONE as entry value"

[Daddyg3042]

Since I didn't see anyone using this...thought I'd provide another method. I also have a PC3, and it certainly is easy to increment programs/setups in QA mode, but I also use an iPad with SetList Maker (SLM). Whether we stick to the set or not, all I need to do is call up the song, and SLM sends the patch change specific to that song. In my setups, I usually have 2 or more voices. I toggle these with a footswitch using the MuteZn command, i.e. play epiano, then use footswitch to change to an organ patch. When you need to toggle more then 2 voices, I assign the 3rd to a switch button, so can have any voice muted, or present.

 

Learned this from Dave W on this forum....always assign an entry/exit value within setups/control setup, otherwise weird stuff is bound to happen with volumes. If you're using programs, it will be the control setup that dictates entry and exit values.

[vonnor]

...I also use an iPad with SetList Maker (SLM). Whether we stick to the set or not, all I need to do is call up the song, and SLM sends the patch change specific to that song...

I just got an iPad Pro, gotta look into SLM.

Between my two boards, I have enough zones to not have to change patches mid song.

Yeah me too.

[Lindaru]

For my top 40 band I have always had to dial up my patch changes manually. I don't know of any other way it would work for me.

 

Our setlist changes order every night. Sometimes on the gig, our setlist changes mid gig. The thing I need to know more than anything is where each patch is and I do a pretty good job of that. Switching from my Motif to my Montage I anticipate a period where I'm having to relearn these patch locations and I'm hoping it's quick.

 

This is where I am, too. The E-16 was easy because the maximum number of button clicks was three (most times two) and I had everything memorized for each song. One song gives you two beats to change back and forth and you change about seven times.

 

The MicroKORG is a bit more challenging. In addition to having to memorize new patch numbers, I also have to dial then punch, then make sure the octave setting for that patch is correct. Not doing a lot of songs with that requirement, but there are a few.

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

[CEB]

Raul's Wild Kingdom.

[aronnelson]

I sometime use unrealBook via wireless MIDI to change programs.

But, the main way I switch patches is something Jarrell from this forum did long ago.

 

You setup 8 commonly used sounds - piano, EP, organ, brass, clav, pad, etc...

 

you toggle/layer them on and off live. It's cool and fun. The PC361 can do this and the Kronos with mutes set to live can do this. The PX-5S cannot toggle on/off but can use the slider.

 

All of the above do not use polyphony when channels are muted.

[nickd]

I bought a Behringer BCN44 which will do program changes and a lot useful more MIDI stuff (it was very cheap)... but the band I was going to use it for broke up, so I've never actually tried it out on stage.

 

[ChiefDanG]

+1 for SetListMaker.