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Compressors on keys?


theGman

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A bandmember suggested I use a compressor on my keyboard to keep the sounds more level.

I play in a gigging cover classic rock band with a loud lead guitar; he was hoping to get my overall sound level up there without becoming too loud.

Live usage only.

Do any of you use them with keyboards?

 

Help! : )

 

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I would try a limiter, but not a compressor.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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When our band is really loud (most of the time) I will use a compressor (sometimes) during a piano lead and it would depend on the song. Rhodes, wurli, clav, organ, no.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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What keyboard are you playing? If its rock-n-roll and he wants to hear the ping of the keys on every single hit, just switch to the hard setting on your velocity settings for the action.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I just discovered June 9 and an August 10 2009 threads on this subject. Sorry I didn't find it sooner; I re-entered search terms.

Keyboards are Jupiter 50 and Electro 3.

 

Paul

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I used a compressor/limiter for a time. My sound guy loved it. I hated it.

Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

 

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Chorus, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, History of Rock, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.

 

 

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Keys are already compressed unless it's an acoustic piano. More compression just squeezes the life out of the tone and causes ear fatigue. Just like over limited CDs and mp3s. Remember vinyl records? I could listen to a whole album and be ready to hear another one. With over compressed digital mixes which is the defacto industry standard, I can handle 2 or 3 songs then I need a break. Same with compression on keyboards.

FunMachine.

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I think I get where he's going with this. As you go from patch to patch on the Jupiter and then switch to whatever you use the Nord for probably have too much dynamic difference between the softest of them to the loudest. Do you feel that's also true when u monitor from your own amp? Are you running to a PA? Or just using the PA for vocals?

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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TC electronics C300 multi band

if your going to try one.

It takes up 1U of rack space but that sucker

is smooth. It sounds way more expensive than

it costs.

Very easy to use.

I Have since started using a digital board.

 

A little, and I mean very little, bit of sonic glue

does wonders for taming keys.

Sounds a bit more like the record if you will.

If you squish them it sounds like

driving nails all the time. I hate that sound.

Pladink pla dunk.

 

John

 

 

Just to add.

If you have a mono source.

I had a situation where a drummer

was getting wildly differing click in his iem's.

Since it was a mono source and needed to be small

I tried an MXR M87 bass compressor pedal.

 

Since bass can be pretty full range it really is a full

range compressor.

It was very easy to dial in as a limiter and

it worked really well for the click.

Now it's a constant tapping.

Not BONK BONK dink dink.

It's the only pedal I've heard that doesn't

sound like the Dynacomp squish box we all

know and hate.

 

 

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Of course, the other side of the coin is - you are responsible for balancing your own levels between instruments and patches. One of the ways you can do that is to talk to a sound man or somebody whose ear you trust and find out what sounds unbalanced.

Moe

---

 

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No. Lose the loud guitarist. Music should have dynamics. I will compress individual patches for a specific effect however.

 

This. I use compression as an effect. Mostly when trying for certain pop piano sound or on some of my EP patches.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Of course, the other side of the coin is - you are responsible for balancing your own levels between instruments and patches. One of the ways you can do that is to talk to a sound man or somebody whose ear you trust and find out what sounds unbalanced.

 

Interesting that this thread comes up tonight. I just spent most of the afternoon re gain-staging and re-balancing my levels between my two boards and their patches. I had noticed over the last few gigs that I had poorly adjusted things and I am sure I was driving our sound man nuts.

 

As a side note I got a new XR12 mixer for various reasons.

I Put it to good use today in my adjustments. Having the big, graphical meters in my iPad really helped me get the levels matched very well.

 

As far as the topic at hand, as with others here, I use some compressor to get certain tones on some patches.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Those Xair12's are sweet. I was using a MOTU Ultralite until this came along.

I squeezed one into my pedalboard and I am done.

We've been using the x32 and a stage box

for our iem rig since they came out.

Absolutely no issues.

 

Smokin little box. And the price. Fugeddaboudit.

 

John

Edited for splelling airurs and sorry. OT

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I don't use a compressor on stage, but I do use a compressor to help me get the levels across patches more even. I learned this from a soundman in the 80's.

 

I set the compressor up to show a reduction in gain of a certain amount (based on a reference patch), and then compare the other patches.

If the gain reduction on a second patch doesn't hit the level of the reduction on the first, it's too soft and I turn the gain up.

If it shows a higher reduction I know I have to back off the level of the patch.

 

I've never figured out how much hotter a lead or solo should be, but I am hoping to work on that soon.

 

But then again I'm probably answering a different question from the one you have.

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Those Xair12's are sweet. I was using a MOTU Ultralite until this came along.

I squeezed one into my pedalboard and I am done.

We've been using the x32 and a stage box

for our iem rig since they came out.

Absolutely no issues.

 

Smokin little box. And the price. Fugeddaboudit.

 

 

John

Edited for splelling airurs and sorry. OT

.

+1

 

Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry
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I don't care for the sound personally, maybe a touch here and there for effect. IMO you and the sound guy can work out the max volume that you might send and then it's up to you to be consistent. There will be times that you don't want to send max volume I'd presume; I also play classic rock and it's not all balls-to-the-wall all the time.

 

There are patches on every keyboard I've ever used that pop out (or under) in volume so there will be adjustments to be made.

 

Also, at the risk of becoming an IEM zealot: I was never able to hear my patches well enough in relation to a baseline mix--especially between two keyboards--to tell how loud I was until IEMs. I use one of my keyboards as the baseline, and since the other one is more "volatile" (drawbars, gain knob for crunch etc) I make sure they stay in the ballpark.

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I just spent most of the afternoon re gain-staging and re-balancing my levels between my two boards and their patches. I had noticed over the last few gigs that I had poorly adjusted things and I am sure I was driving our sound man nuts.

Interesting; I did this in my studio and got everything balanced; then I went to the gig with the drums, guitars and bass being used in a live situation. Sounds became unbalanced 'live' and I ended up adjusting and saving them on the fly in the gig so that everything was balanced "live". So what might sound balanced in a studio with no other instruments being played suddenly becomes unbalanced in a live scenario. I now have the programs balanced for "live" situations. Still, sometimes the piano will get lost during certain songs when I'm soloing and with how the other instruments interact in that song; those couple of songs I use a compressor to get the piano volume "up" without me having to constantly bang on the keys at a high velocity during the solo.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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I just spent most of the afternoon re gain-staging and re-balancing my levels between my two boards and their patches. I had noticed over the last few gigs that I had poorly adjusted things and I am sure I was driving our sound man nuts.

Interesting; I did this in my studio and got everything balanced; then I went to the gig with the drums, guitars and bass being used in a live situation. Sounds became unbalanced 'live' and I ended up adjusting and saving them on the fly in the gig so that everything was balanced "live". So what might sound balanced in a studio with no other instruments being played suddenly becomes unbalanced in a live scenario. I now have the programs balanced for "live" situations. Still, sometimes the piano will get lost during certain songs when I'm soloing and with how the other instruments interact in that song; those couple of songs I use a compressor to get the piano volume "up" without me having to bang on the keys at a high velocity during the solo.

 

Dave, something I failed to mention above is that when I redid everything, I set them to a balanced starting point.

I leave myself plenty of headroom in case I need to adjust up..for example in a solo situation or to cut thru a particularly heavy song.

 

The problem I was having is that a couple times everything would be going along great, then I'd select an organ patch, and blow the sound engineer off his stool at FOH :)

 

That's the kind of thing I was fixing.

 

I also have a ton of live recordings of us, and adjusted based on that as well.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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To dig into a dynamic sound like a piano (be it electric or acoustic) and have the sound get squashed and not respond correctly makes for a very unsatisfying playing experience. I ride the volume manually to adjust to what I'm hearing.

 

IMO there's nothing wrong with a compressor on keys when you're mixing a track you use the tools you need to make the music sound good. But when I'm playing I need the instrument to feel right.

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^ Yes I agree with that. In fact, our sound guy squashes them such that it throws off my playing when was getting the keys back in a monitor feed. Sounds good in the mix from recordings, but having that attack all compressed (makes for almost a double-hit) was affecting me. I now monitor keys pre-FOH and mix them together with the other instruments. More complicated flow but I have more control.
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^ Yes I agree with that. In fact, our sound guy squashes them such that it throws off my playing when was getting the keys back in a monitor feed. Sounds good in the mix from recordings, but having that attack all compressed (makes for almost a double-hit) was affecting me. I now monitor keys pre-FOH and mix them together with the other instruments. More complicated flow but I have more control.

 

I monitor my own keys and vocals, so the only thing I get from FOH is the rest of the band. I use the Rolls PM351 mixer.

 

My mic goes to it first then "thru" to FOH. I use an output on my stage mixer to run to the instrument in on it, then the feed from FOH or monitor board goes into it as well.

 

All three are on different pots, so I have total control of my in ear mix.

 

You are correct, getting that "squashed" sound in the ears from FOH makes for a very unsatisfying playing experience.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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You are doing it differently than I am, but yes that's the jist of it, having control. I use my submixer as a monitor mixer (carefully to avoid a feedback loop!) and it allows me to mix each keyboard against the rest of the band on the aux sends (which go to my wired IEM pack). It requires a mixer with a pre-fader send so many small mixers won't work.

 

Ironically, I now can use my iphone to control my monitor mix, so the compression on the keys is really the only reason I can't just get keys back in my monitor mix. I need to give it another listen to see if he's eased up! Or if not, if he could somehow make the keys compression post monitor send (in an old-school console iirc the insert would be before the sends but this is digital...)

 

 

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