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Revamping my live rig


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The originals band that I play with has changed direction in recent years, and I'm looking to revamp my live rig to better accommodate the type of music we're playing. When we started out, we had more of a blues rock vibe like the Black Keys. So this called for plenty of wurly, rhodes, clav, and hammond sounds. For my tastes, Nord keyboards were the solution and have served me well with my current rig: An Electro 3 73 on the bottom, and a Electro 4D 61 on top. Generally, the E3 was for piano sounds and the 4D for organ.

 

In the past ~2 years, our sound has gradually changed to more of an indie rock vibe. Hard to describe our sound exactly, but more and more I am being called on to play synthesizer parts instead of straight bread and butter sounds. So far I've gotten by by using the Nord sample library to add synth sounds to my palette.

 

The thing I find frustrating with using the sample library is the lack of customization I can do to the sounds. Whenever we work on new songs, I'm limited to whatever sounds I have happened to load into my two boards before rehearsal which is constraining sometimes. Also the lack of pitch/mod wheels is a bummer.

 

I think it's time to add a dedicated synth to my rig. I think a poly analog would be really cool. Having an interface with lots of knobs for real-time control is very appealing. Now, while I want to add a synth, I really don't to add another keyboard, but rather replace one of my Electros. The 2 compact keyboard approach works well for the types of venues we play (small stages) and setup/tear down times (often playing a 40 minute set with 2 or 3 other bands).

 

So I've been thinking it's time to revamp my live rig for this band. I'm writing this post to put my thoughts onto virtual paper, think out loud a little bit, and seek some advice from my keyboard brethren.

 

 

Option 1: The wallet-saving approach

I do have the Roland JU-06 module which sounds really great to my ears, and has some of the kinds of sounds I'm looking for. The idea would be to velcro this to one of the open spaces on my Electros and connect MIDI to one of them. I would buy a second JU-06 to chain them together so I could have 8 voices of polyphony (4 is not enough for some of the songs we do). I would have to get a mixer to combine everything together, as my current approach - mono line from each Electro merged/mixed by a Switchcraft 702 direct box for a single mono line to FOH - does not have enough inputs.

 

The good: Low budget, has sounds that I like, real-time interface

The bad: JU-06 interface is a bit convoluted with some progamming taking place through multiple simultaneous button presses, don't really like the pitch and mod "touch" controllers, short throw of tiny slide pots makes it harder to dial sounds in, might have to add a rack to house other JU-06 and mixer which means more gear to carry.

 

 

Option 2: Keep it red

Another idea I had would be to replace my E3 73 with a Nord Stage 2 Compact. Lets me stay in an environment I'm familar with while adding a synth. Though I admit I'm not particularly excited by this option.

 

 

Option 3: The expensive option but probably the approach I will end of taking because it's exciting!

Top board: Analog or digital polysynth (OB-6, Prophet 6, Nord Lead, etc, vintage synth?)

Bottom board: Electro 5D 73

 

This is kind of the dream setup right now and the one I'm leaning more towards. We still have some songs we play that don't require synth but a piano on bottom/organ on top setup. With the 5D being bitimbral, that can be achieved by triggering one voice via MIDI from my to-be-determined top board. Also, it has drawbars, which I much prefer than the drawbuttons of the E3. I would definitely sell my E3 to fund this endeavour.

 

The polysynth is not really determined yet. I have played the Prophet 6 and wasn't as inspired by it as I though I would be, though maybe because I was listening through crappy music store speakers instead of headphones. I did find the interface to be a bit overwhelming too. Though I imagine if I spent more time with it I would get more comfortable. I haven't played the OB-6 yet but would like to. I like the sounds I hear from it on demos better than the P6.

 

Seeking a vintage synth has crossed my mind, though reliability is a main concern. It would be cool to own a Juno 106 or a Jupiter but is it a good idea to gig with one?

 

I'm also not sure when I should move forward with this. The dual Electro rig can still work for me, it's not like I'm holding the band back with my current sound, but I know it can be better. With so many synth reissues happening, there's surely some cool stuff coming out over the next year. Is it worth waiting a bit to see what shows up?

 

If you made it this far, thanks for reading. Let me know if you have any ideas, synth suggestions, etc. I'm still in the process of figuring this out. :crazy:

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One additional benefit to option 1 is that it would let you have a polysynth with the band for short money now and could inform your choice of the what goes in the dream rig later. By this I mean that after playing it for a while you might get a better idea of what you're really looking for, e.g. "this is good, but it would be better if it had this type of oscillator waveform, a filter that sounds like that, and I can modulate that bit with the LFO."
"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit."
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One additional benefit to option 1 is that it would let you have a polysynth with the band for short money now and could inform your choice of the what goes in the dream rig later. By this I mean that after playing it for a while you might get a better idea of what you're really looking for, e.g. "this is good, but it would be better if it had this type of oscillator waveform, a filter that sounds like that, and I can modulate that bit with the LFO."

That's an excellent point. Actually, I can do this for zero extra dollars right now; just bring the JU-06 along to practice and deal with the 4 voices for the time being since it's just an experiment. We only run vox and keys through the PA at rehearsal so there are plenty of extra inputs that I can run the Roland into, so no need to buy a mixer either.

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If your only doing one hand stuff with the synth,

a little bit of delay does wonders for covering note stealing.

But ya, 4 voices doesn't cut it.

 

I have the jup8 version. It sounds great but the note stealing kills it.

I too would wait.

 

Then maybe rent a Nord stage for a month if you can.

It covers a lot of ground. The synth looks dinky at first glance but

when you take into account the samples of all those great polysynths

it shines.

 

And do try an OB6. Totally different sonic palate than the P6

It's the only thing polysynth wise that has me thinking about

parking the Stage 2.

If you have GC's around they might have one.

GC will likely have Stage 2 also.

 

It's a lot of money either way so take your time.

You might find the little Rolands do all you need.

As I remember you can run the output of one into the input of the other.

Then run that output into the input of your Nord and use the headphone

out to your amp/and/or or FOH feed.

Kinda fiddley but it will get the job done for now.

 

Nord

 

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The P08 is a decent synth option. $1700 new street price. It is on my short list of synths I am looking at. The 4 LFOs and modulation architecture are 2 things I like.

 

The JP80 at $2500 is interesting.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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The lack of pitch and mod control is a problem, otherwise I'd have recommended adding an Integra-7. That way you could keep the rig you're familiar with and add sounds from the Integra. The VA sounds very good and the onboard sounds coupled with the SRX boards mean a LOT of sonic goodness.
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And do try an OB6. Totally different sonic palate than the P6

It's the only thing polysynth wise that has me thinking about

parking the Stage 2.

If you have GC's around they might have one.

GC will likely have Stage 2 also.

There's 2 GCs in the Pittsburgh area but the keyboard departments have a pretty pitiful selection, I've never seen a Nord there. There is a local music store (Pianos N Stuff) that has a nice variety, but they don't sell DSI last I checked. Though I bought all of my Nords from them, maybe they'd order an OB-6 to the store for me to try out. I actually played the P6 when I was on a road trip and passed through Nashville.

 

It's a lot of money either way so take your time.

You might find the little Rolands do all you need.

As I remember you can run the output of one into the input of the other.

Then run that output into the input of your Nord and use the headphone

out to your amp/and/or or FOH feed.

Kinda fiddley but it will get the job done for now.

Another good idea. Thanks!

 

The P08 is a decent synth option. $1700 new street price. It is on my short list of synths I am looking at. The 4 LFOs and modulation architecture are 2 things I like.

 

The JP80 at $2500 is interesting.

A friend of mine has a P08, I played it a couple years ago but I think I found the action to be a little flimsy. I should revisit that, though, perhaps it's not as bad as I'm remembering.

 

JP-80 is interesting but it's too big for the rig I want for this band.

 

The lack of pitch and mod control is a problem, otherwise I'd have recommended adding an Integra-7. That way you could keep the rig you're familiar with and add sounds from the Integra. The VA sounds very good and the onboard sounds coupled with the SRX boards mean a LOT of sonic goodness.

Yeah, pitch and mod is a must for this to be worthwhile for me.

 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

 

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Several great suggestions and options above. I'll just add this, Richie:

 

1) There's "knobby", and there's REAL knobby. I have an embarrasment of options (more kbs than I need). In my anecdotal experience, several boards I own provide wide breath of sonic options but aren't knobby in the truest sense. Kurzweil, Kronos fall into that category. Yes, Kronos has 9 sound engines including VA, and a wealth of knobs, buttons and sliders. But you have to define the controllers in advance, which is very much NOT like a true analog.

 

2) The Nord Lead family (and other VAs) gets you pretty darn close, but even that's not exactly the same. I love my Nord Wave. It's a perfect foil to the Kronos in that it sounds completely different, offers a full knobby interface - but because of the patch layering, it's still not the same as...

 

3) The OB6. I've yet to develop enough patches for it to replace the Wave in my covers band rigs, but if I was in an originals project, the Kronos and OB6 would probably be all I'd need. I might even do the CP4 and OB6. Nothing I have in VA sounds close to this beast. Nothing.

 

Before you drop serious coin on anything, you really owe it to yourself to spend 60-90 minutes in front of an OB6.

 

Tim

..
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Tim's points are spot-on. The only thing I'd add is to try and spend a little time in front of a Prophet-12 as well. That's another one that could nail the the top tier keyboard duties in your rig. One more that might do the job is the Roland JD-XA - a 4-voice real analog engine combined with a JP-80 level SuperNatural synth.

 

Since I've also been studying analog knobby-goodness lately - wanting to add either a module or small keyboard to my live rig, some of that may be of help here.. I think the Prophet 12 is amazing, but my wallet cries 'Minilogue'; reality is likely somewhere in between - more likely a DSI Pro 2 or JD-XA - as extensive real analog polyphony isn't as critical for my situation as yours. Like you, I also have one of the Roland Boutique modules - the JX-03. Great sounding little box, but I'm looking for something a bit deeper.

 

I feel that you'd get more long-term satisfaction with the Electro 5 73 / true-analog polysynth combination. And likely the only places that you'll find all of the models discussed will be a half to full day's drive for you - possibly one of the east coast stores (?), and definitely Sweetwater, to the west. Very well could be worth the trip, though.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I was in Nashville GC about a month ago, they had both the P6 and OB6.

 

I agree that unless you are an experienced tech, don't gig with vintage analog. Vintage analogs need a major makeover to endure gigging. If you want to gig with analog, buy new like the OB6.

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Unless you specifically need analog, or VA, why not consider something like a Roland FA-06. It should compliment either Nord nicely. It has plenty of Roland Supernatural Synth tones, plus pretty much all the bread and butter you'd need. However, you'd be sacrificing tactile control, as there are a limited number on knobs. Also, it's very light and has a small footprint (though, the action could be better).

 

Now, if you want tactile control and the ability to craft unique tones as you go, why not check out something like the V-Synth. I always thought those had some great potential.

 

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One other thing I thought of.

You have a pitch and mod ribbon on the Roland module.

Perhaps you can leverage those controllers for use with a module.

An integra or whatever floats your boat.

 

I have to say I have been going back to the Stage 2 a lot for polysynth duties.

Like all Nords it's super quick to dial in sounds on the fly.

Damned if I'm really digging the thing again.

The Mellotron/Chamberlain libraries take me straight back to the 70's

prog days too.

They put a lot of magic smoke in there.

 

 

John

 

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Hoochie +1. Stage 2's VA is fun and remarkably capable. And it's not just a polysynth - you could take it to a solo piano cocktail gig, jazz trio, southern rock covers, prog tribute etc.

 

I like Allan's JP4 suggestion also.

 

(Of course if you're in love with a true-analog polysynth, don't let me stop you!)

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Lots of good ideas here, everyone. Many thanks. I've got much more to consider now!

 

I think, at this point, I need to wait and ponder this decision further, and I really need to visit some music stores and lay my hands on all of the boards suggested here. Summer NAMM is close too; not that it ever brings much in the way of new keyboards, but perhaps something might show up.

 

Admittedly, my quest is driven mostly by GAS as opposed to necessity. My bandmates are happy with the sounds I get out of my current rig.

 

To be continued...

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  • 5 months later...

~6 month later update...

 

Finally had a chance to get my mitts on a couple different synths today, the OB-6 and the Roland FA-06, among others.

 

FA-06 - Has the Roland synth sounds that I like. Somewhat tweakable. The screen is really nice. Not a fan of the action. If was in a wedding/function band I'd definitely consider one. Kinda flimsy. My Nords seem far more rugged.

 

OB-6 - Sounds awesome. Feels solid. Just didn't connect with it. This is largely due to the fact that I find the interface and all of the sound design options pretty overwhelming (same experience with the Prophet 6).

 

I came to the realization that I'm a pretty inexperienced synth programmer. My only real experience with analog synths is with my Little Phatty. While I am able to navigate around and dial in sounds with a bit of effort, I have more to learn. With the poly analog, I could probably get where I want to be taking the time and effort to educate myself, but spending $3K on the OB-6 right now frankly doesn't make sense.

 

Since I started this thread, the DeepMind 12 and System-8 Plug-out have been announced. I'm pretty keen on the DeepMind 12 with its design based on the Juno. And the $1,000 price tag is pretty nice. If the build quality is substantial enough I'll probably take the leap.

 

I also put an order in for an Electro 5D 73 today (got a really nice Black Friday deal online). Played a 5D 61 at the music store and was able navigate around well enough. I need to do some learning on the new parts of the interface but that won't be too bad.

 

As a sweet bonus, I also got to try the new Minimoog Model D today. Man, that thing is incredible. Feels awesome, sounds amazing. Now how do I justify getting one? :laugh:

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The 5d is super easy. I think I opened the manual one time, for a midi routing question. The manual is like a pamphlet, that shows you how easy it is to use.

Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1

Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6

www.bksband.com

www.echoesrocks.com

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I bought the Studiologic Sledge2. Great sounds and layed out like a real vintage analog synth. No multiple levels to program, every parameter is right there in front of you. 28 voices is great too. Multiple splits and great layers. Sweetwater has them for under $1000.00. Check it out!

Good luck

Steve

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Good grief we have lots of choices now.

6 months has seen a lot of things happen.

 

I took the plunge on a model D. It's everything I remember and

the only mono synth I've ever wanted. This time for keeps.

The last one was pretty beat up.

 

I haven't changed anything in polysynths and am rediscovering

the potential in the Stage 2 synth. It covers a lot of ground quite nicely.

 

The OB 6 is the one that just keeps calling to me though.

There is just something about that sound that makes me think

it was created with a touch of living breathing organic beauty.

You just stop what your doing and listen.

 

The Deep Mind has that quality in a different way.

It kind of reminds me of the CS for some reason.

And the effects are like having an Eventide H9 which are beautiful in their

own right. And at $999. Wow.

 

 

 

John

 

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I'm going to agree, the OB-6 sound is in my head like an old girlfriend.

You want me to start this song too slow or too fast?

 

Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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I bought the Studiologic Sledge2.
You may also want to consider a Nord Lead A1.

Added to the list!

 

Good grief we have lots of choices now.

6 months has seen a lot of things happen.

I know, right? It's a great time to be a keyboard player. And Winter NAMM is 7 weeks away, I wouldn't be surprised if we see another new polysynth or vintage reissue.

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  • 4 months later...

Update:

 

Well, I didn't take anyone's advice (my own included) and didn't audition any boards before making a purchase sight unseen.

 

I am now the owner of a lightly used Behringer DeepMind 12. One came up in the garage sale thread here and I jumped on it.

 

I've been busy and haven't had much time to sit down with it. First impressions are that we will get along well. I like the interface, it's pretty intuitive. Previosly, I mentioned feeling overwhelmed with the P6 and OB-6 interfaces; the DM12 feels much more comfortable. The screen is a big part of that; lots of useful information displayed there.

 

I'm finding the presets on the DM12 to be pretty uesless. That's not a knock per se; they're very interesting sounds, but often they're doused in too many effects (the effects engine is a strong point of this board for sure) or make liberal use of the arpeggiator. My use of this board, which is a second tier board for live work, requires more traditional poly synth and lead sounds. So I will need to brush up on a few programming tutorials, then dive in and start making sounds. First thing I plan to do is recreate some of the Nord sample synth sounds that I was using on the Electro 4D, which is being replaced by the DM12 on the top tier.

 

I also need start working on setting up my Electro 5D 73 to play nicely over MIDI with the DM12. The DM12 will sometimes be a controller for one slot of the Nord, so I have to figure all of that stuff out too. I'm not exactly looking forward to this, but it's something that must be done. No gigs that would use this setup on the horizon for now, so I have time to work this out.

 

Look for another report in a few months after I've had a chance to learn this instrument and integrate it into my rig. :keys2:

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

2 year one month update from the start of this thread:

 

Never connected with the Deepmind 12 (see here)

 

Today I became a member of the Keyboard Corner Nord Stage 3 Compact Club (KCNS3CC for short). Had this board existed at the time I started this thread, I probably would have gone this route in the first place. The Deepmind and 5D73 are off to greener pastures. My local music store gave me enough dough on the trade to make the NS3 purchase tolerable.

 

Now I wait patiently for it to arrive. Hopefully I have it before my next gig in 2 weeks :eek: Time to start watching tutorial vids so I can get up to speed quickly. My plan is to use have the NS3 on the bottom and use my E4D on top, with the E4D serving as a controller.

 

I also got to lay my mitts on a Korg Prologue. Man, what a nice synth. The action felt great (much better than the Roland System 8 sitting next to it) and the build quality is superb, sounded good too. I definitely felt more comfortable navigating it than the Deepmind; I could see myself picking one of these up someday if budget allows.

 

 

 

 

 

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Good Luck Richie. The Nord Compact looks cool.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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