Detox blues

[RangerJay]

Just found out that a good friend is in detox. Involuntarily.

 

Apparently, people (including me) were jumping out of his TV and "infringing" upon him. He decided to call the police about our "outrageous" behavior, and after the third call, they wheeled him over to the hospital for "observation."

 

The thing is, he needs to be in an alcohol-free environment for at least 30 days, but after 7 days he can walk away.

 

Up until a year ago, this guy was one of the smartest people I ever met. Now, he's lost his family, his job, his apartment, and now his mind. He actually has no idea how screwed up he is. He just doesn't care.

 

I have to visit him in the hospital tomorrow. Any advice, people?

 

Later,

 

Ranger Jay

[halljams]

Jeez, sorry man.

 

Try to get him some professional help and do your best to remind him what's positive about what he is throwing away.

[Anderton]

<

 

Do you have any idea of what caused the change? It seems the key is to reverse that.

[RangerJay]

There was no one event to drive him to this. It has been a progressive addiction. We all turned our heads...

 

I'm sorry to say, I have enabled the boy...

 

I've dealt with my own semi-addictions through the years. I just never crossed the border. I always came back to myself, and never returned to that other place. Now I value life, without any external influences.

 

This guy is/was really brilliant. MA in Education, excellent guitarist (acoustic) when he chooses to play. The guy really understands chords. When he first went to college, he was a music major. Then, I think an LSD truck ran over his chromosomes, or something.

 

I need to convince this guy to go from detox into rehab, and I don't think it's gonna be easy.

 

I'm looking for advice from someone who's dealt with this. If I can help, I want to.

 

I'm really afraid that when he walks out of detox after 7 days, he might just drive away from the liquor store and kill a whole family in a car wreck, and walk away going, "what happened?"

[Alndln]

Originally posted by RangerJay:

It has been a progressive addiction.

He has to reach what he percieves as bottom,and at his his rate he probably will.Hopefully he will see it.

[philbo_Tangent]

My sympathy goes out to you and your friend.

 

Though I've never been addicted to alchohol, I spent some time addicted to painkillers in my late teens. They gave me massive amounts of morphine and other opiate-like narcotics when I broke my back about 30 years ago. Then when I got out of the hospital they gave me a huge bottles of valium and phenobarbitol, which is what I ended up getting addicted to. It was much harder getting off the drugs than it was to deal with the pain and to learn how to sit up without a body cast again.

 

Anyway, the thing about addiction is that nobody can change the course of it but the addicted person. There is nothing anyone else can do but watch, pray and hope. And be there for him when he is ready.

 

I wish you and your friend the best...

 

Phil

[RangerJay]

Thanks.

 

I realize that the only guy who can change his behavior is my friend. I can't do it for him. He is approaching "rock bottom," but he still is able to call in people to take care of him. Just when he's about to "fall down," he gets people to pick him up.

 

I know. It's called "enabling." I've done it for him. Now, I'm pissed off, because I'd talked to friends and family about how to deal with his hospitalization, and I was blindsided by his sister and his wife.

 

They completely succumbed to his manipulations. And he is a master manipulator, and an accomplished alcoholic.

 

I'm at the point that I'd prefer that he went to prison for several months. That's sad, but that's the way I feel about it.

 

I still promised to visit him sometime today.

 

He still thinks of me, 'cause I was one of the people coming out of the TV and confronting him...

 

Is this life? Or a miserable excuse...

[Midimonk]

Hope this helps,

 

Addictions are very hard to beat and when depression is mixed in its very hard to seek help.I know this now cause i lost "it" last weekend in front of some friends and this whole week i have come to my senses(w/ the support of friends) and sought help on my own.Later today, i'm admiting to my family that i've hidden my alcoholism/ substance abuse for over 15 years.Next week, i'm weighing options for the best treatment for me and feel relieved to get the beast off my back.I almost lost a job that i love and am so greatful that they are willing to work with me thru this.The withdrawls are the hardest, i've never been in more pain than now and my depression is like a rollercoaster ride that is definitely no fun.Your friend needs your support but don't let him use you as a crutch, he needs to realize within himself that "he needs help".I quit off and on for so long, I'd tell myself that everything is in control. Those around me would try to convince me otherwise. I should have listened years ago, but fortunately the only one that has been hurt physically was me in the end.

[Barandine Vondenger]

yeah it's a real pisser of a situation for all concerned.

I was a RAGING alcoholic/junkie/whatever and I've been sober for almost a decade.

basically I was allowed to spiral down untill there was NOTHING left. I was homeless, no job or real friends. no life, no hope, no future.

life sucks and then you get sober and life REALLY sucks.

there is no easy way out. He is sick and so treat him as a sickie. not as a criminal or freak even though he may act criminal and freaky.

he might not ever make it back to the land of the living. He just might endure things long enough to take himself out.

He is drinking or drugging SOMETHING off his minde. or trying to. So get to the ROOT of his PROBLEM and he may be saved.

It may be a childhood TRAUMA he is trying to deal with. It may be a woman and a child, type of TRAUMA.

or it may be the TRAUMA of being a human in a cold,cold, world.

He'll DIE if you are unable to reach him.

KIDNAP him and take him to a faraway land where he can ONLY work, eat and sleep. a farm maybe in the mountains or a pristine fishing spot accessible ONLY by plane.

he might not KNOW WHY he is acting this way. but he is acting out. finde out why. soon. it'll be tough. to say the least.

goode lucke. .

[lakeside studios]

Yep, he's got an illness that needs treating professionally. He needs to know this for himself, to really accept that he's reached his rock-bottom, before anyone can help him. Until then, he will manipulate everybody, including himself. I reached this stage myself 15 years ago, and the good news is that there are places where one can get help. But as Arell says, it's then a long hard path to getting your life together once you're sober. But we're getting there, right, Arell?

Your friend needs your help. Get yourself along to Al-anon (support group for friends and family of alcoholics) so as to understand the situation a bit more. There is good help out there, seek it out. It sounds to me like his rock-bottom is near, and he needs a treatment centre. Minnesota Method or whatever. Otherwise, he may die, and take other people with him.

[Rog]

Originally posted by RangerJay:

Just found out that a good friend is in detox. Involuntarily.

 

I have to visit him in the hospital tomorrow. Any advice, people?

 

Later,

 

Ranger Jay

Just listen to him. There's not a great deal you can say that will mean anything untill you have listened to him and you can get a handle on where he is .... where he thinks he is.

 

Get the guy to start talking.

[comfortat]

Great observations, all.

 

One of the reasons AA works so well is the idea of a sponsor. You can act as one by being there to listen, and to discuss the things he talks about. Reinforce the positive and help him break down the negatives into cogent thought.

 

I would get an AA "big book" and read it, asap. It will help you understand what you are dealing with, as well as what he is coping with.

 

Another reason it works (for those who apply it) is that you are constantly going to meetings. You hear horror stories that you can relate to, and makes you feel like you're not a "freak". You realize you are not alone. Offer to go with him to a meeting.

 

The "higher power" that AA teaches is crucial as well. When you get your eyes off yourself and onto something else, it lightens the load.

 

Remember that it is not your problem. Whatever you have done to enable him, stop immediately. But until he takes steps, he won't recover. God bless you in this effort.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I have no advice. Just wanted to say sorry you're going through this. I know the brunt of the sympathy is rightfully given to the person who is directly involved, but his friends, family and others are also affected by going through this.

 

I've seen it with a couple of my friends (drugs and alcohol alike). The best support I gave them was being there to focus their energies in positive directions (music, for example). But this was often long after the fact: back then I was, unfortunately, one of those people from whom the rehab folks told my friends to stay away, quite rightfully.

 

Best of luck to your friend (and you as well).

 

- Jeff

[RangerJay]

His sister checked him out. He refused to continue treatment (enter rehab).

 

He insists that he has a "medical problem," and that his drinking has nothing to do with it.

 

It's just a matter of time before he is back in the hospital, in jail, or in the grave. I've run out of patience.

[sourmash]

RangerJay, were you ever in the 75th Regmt? I spent a few years at 3/75. Anyways, I have now acknowledged that I have a problem with my drinking. I am trying to come to terms with it and see where the root of the problem lies. I have been drinking heavily for about 13 years. I was able to quit nicotine and alcohol for 3 years after an enlightening experience of a horrible relationship. I got away from that girl and felt like a million bucks. After that 3 years I joined the Army and went back to drinking and its been even worse ever since. I have talked to a few friends about it, rather they approached me and I have to think it might be hereditary. My dad thinks it is to as his father was an alcoholic and chronic depressive, yet my father has a couple beers and can stop at that. I am fairly sure that your friend knows what is going on, he just isnt ready to come to terms with the solution. I can sit here and tell myself I wont drink tonight but I know I am lying, same thing he probably is denying. About 10 years ago, I got a DUI and they forced me to go to a series of classes about alcohol. I learned alot about it and how horrible it is for you and the people around you, yet I still cant seem to get the courage to get away. I have one freind that kept waking up with pain in his side. He went to the doctor and found out he had beginnings of cirhosis. He quit that day and has been dry ever since. I just think it might take an experience (not detox, its just too easy to relapse) to make your freind see. At least thats how I see motivation for me to get off the shit. Right now my life is not going that well and I cant help but think that the drinking isnt making it worse. Booze is just like a band-aid. I dunno, its a very complicated thing. I do have the sense not to go out of my house after I have been drinking, at least thats what that DUI taught me.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by RangerJay:

His sister checked him out. He refused to continue treatment (enter rehab).

Yeah, I was rather expecting that but didn't want to be the pessimist in the group.

 

If he's anything like my friends and acquaintances over the years, he'll either a) go back to rehab, voluntarily, after another bad episode or two, or b) go somewhere and die, either from the booze (directly or indirectly) or from suicide.

 

Man, I'm glad I don't really enjoy being intoxicated any more.

 

- Jeff

[comfortat]

Sourmash,

 

This may seem like a small thing, but have you thought about changing your online name to "free and sober" or something like it? Seeing that everytime you come here to post can't be helpful. Do you go to AA meetings? When you feel like a drink, you can call your sponsor instead and get support.

 

Alcoholism does skip generations quite often BTW. Seek help with your problem, friend. You'll be glad you did.

 

God bless you

[Barandine Vondenger]

alcohol is an INSIDIOUS POISON.

A little "seems" to help me but the side effects are way too bad you might be thankin'.

 

So after a while, I figger'd I had LOW BLOOD SUGAR SYNDROME.

You have LOW BLOOD SUGAR, and you FEEL CRAZY or worse. you cain't thank straight or make goode decisions and you may be confused about normal everyday NON CONFUSING thangs.

So drank a beer or some SOURMASH and what does alkyhol DO in your SYSTEM ?

WHY, it changes to SUGAR.. now you got HIGH BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS and you feel great so you DRANK a leetle more. an' a leetle more and.. and...

ONLY.. you plumb forgot that this ALKYHALL is POISON. heck you can pour it into a car and it'll make an ENGINE BURN FIRE.

So it CANNOT be much GOODE to a HUMON.

So you done dronk so much you feel BAD. why?

CAUSE it's POISON you damn dumbass. just like ciggies and CLOROX BLEACH. you can drank a lITTLE bit of clorox and man it'll buzz you like wow man!

but you don't want to try to DRIVE after drinking CLOROX BLEACH. ..

why?

CAUSE it's POISON you damn dumbass!

and you just try EATING a few ciggies .. why you'll be sicker than a dog on carnival day.

why? CAUSE they's POISON you DAMN DUMBASS!

POISON I SAY! YAHHHHH!

So what you do is EAT something goode. like an apple or an orange or two or something like a WELL BALANCED MEAL.

and then your BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS will rise to where they need to be and you'll say:" howdy doody but I feel like a fourth of july celebration. WHOOO dawgie!

so eat right and stay away from POISONS and bad folke. both will KILL YOU!.

YAHHHHH!

[TB-AV]

RangerJay,

 

Here is a reply you probably are not expecting.

 

I had a parent die of alzheimers, a best friend eventually die of a very serious brain ingury and have a friend that is a 30 + year abuser.

 

The common element being a mindset that you as a normal person can not reason with. They can bring you into their world but you can not bring them into yours.

 

If you think your friend has hit bottom consider this. The 30+ year abuser I mentioned was down and out hard core can't get any worse. Or so her family thought until she got run over by a hit and run driver and left for dead. Now this person walks with a cane and can add pain killing narcotics to their list of addictions and is un-employable due to physical reasons and brain ingury.

 

So my advice to you is based on my experience. If you are going to get involved in this persons recovery. Do so, but don't expect anything good to happen. Your expectations will only cause you grief. If he does get better that's great, just don't expect it from him.

 

If you really intend help for a long term, you should talk to a professional about what it is going to do to you because from what you have said so far, it sounds like you have very little control over what is and what is not going to happen.

 

I hate to sound so grim about it but I have seen this type situation destory people's enjoyment of life all in the name of trying to help when in fact they are being towed along for the ride.

 

So my advice, take care of yourself it's going to be a long rough ride and you aren't driving.

 

Good luck, I hope someone gets your friend the professional help he needs.

[where02190]

Friend is unfortunately the proverbial horse led to water. Until he is ready, nothing can force him to get clean. He has a disease called addiction...it's not curable, but it is treatable.

 

It's his choice, jails institutions or death...or find a new way to live. there's help if he wants it, but he as to want it. AA, NA, whatever A are great programs for those ready to find that new way of life. My "A" certainly saved my sorry ass, and with alot of hard work and dedication has given me a life, and a self I never thought possible now for 7 yrs come April 1st.

 

Be hs friend. let him know you care, and that what's happening to him is OK, but also teach him that he needs to be responsible for himself, and his recovery, cuz no one else is going to be.

 

You may want to find out info on local meetings of AA or NA and if the moment presents itself, pass it on to him, or even offer to go to a meeting with him...those first times can be a bit less scarey in the company fo a friend. Check your yellowpages, or for NA go to www.na.org

 

Don't stop believing in your friend jsut because he stopped believeing in himself, and don't condne the BS either.

 

Best wishes.

[cherri]

RJ - best wishes to you and your friend. I can't offer any advice besides what's been given, but I've been through what you are going through, with a family member, so you have my sypmathy.

[Tedster]

All you can do, Ranger, is be supportive. I will add, sometimes the alcoholic will start railing about how "they" put me here. It's always "they, them, those people" and sometimes "you" (especially if you're in my position, where the abuser is a spouse). Don't give in to the temptation to agree with 'em...the old "I hear ya, buddy, people can be bastards". Don't say anything. You don't have to say, "Well, (name), I hear you blaming all of these people for you being here, but really, it's YOU", but, don't agree with them. Because they will want to draw you in and put them on what they think is "their" side. Just let him know that you're there for him, and that's all you can do. If he seems to indicate that he wants to walk out in seven days, you might add..."I don't think that's such a good idea, why not just stay here and get a rest".

 

As I've mentioned on the board, my wife has a problem with alcohol. Right now it seems to be in remission (thank God and knock on wood) but, we'll see. It hasn't gone as far as your friend's, but it has had her in court a couple of times on DWI charges, and right now she's on two years' probation. Good luck to your buddy. But, like others have mentioned, it's his choice.