For all the Star Trek fans here, anybody following Axanar?

[Jazzmammal]

Totally off topic.

 

I know there are a ton of Trek fans on this forum including me. This is a fascinating take on copyright issues.

 

Axanar is a Kickstarter funded million dollar total rip off of CBS/Paramount's Star Trek IP. It's supposed to be just another totally amateur fan film but it looks like it's a first class production and there may be some shady profit taking going on. Paramount filed a lawsuit against the producers a couple of months ago. Legally, Axanar has zero grounds to do this. Sounds like a legal slam dunk but...

 

ST fans are so vocal, so fanatical they apparently just forced JJAbrams and someone else associated with the new Trek movie to say it looks like CBS may be dropping the lawsuit because they don't want to piss off the fan base!

 

There's several YT vids talking about Axanar over the last few months but this one just came out a couple weeks ago:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQDCtcRVOiY

 

This vid includes a clip from a meeting where Abrams actually says that so it's not just internet rumor. Of course that's him saying that, not Paramount but he is the director.

 

This would be like a significant portion of Journey's fan base using Kickstarter to hire a group of killer musicians to produce a new Journey album because the real group isn't doing enough or something like that and then after filing a lawsuit Neil Schoen decides to back off and let them do it.

 

That would never happen. But when it comes to some Trek fans I guess they're on a whole other level than legendary music fans.

 

Bob

[RABid]

I've got all the shows and movies on blu-ray or DVD and am in the process of watching them through again. This time chronologically starting with Enterprise.

 

I watched part of the linked video but eventually got tired of the repeated cheap shots at Wil Wheaton and Enterprise. I've never watched or read any fan fiction. Not sure Axanar will change that. A million dollars does not go very far when creating sci-fi effects. No wonder it is already having production troubles.

[Synthaholic]

This would be like a significant portion of Journey's fan base using Kickstarter to hire a group of killer musicians to produce a new Journey album because the real group isn't doing enough or something like that and then after filing a lawsuit Neil Schoen decides to back off and let them do it.

 

But it wouldn't be a new Journey album, as they wouldn't be able to use the Journey name.

 

What if the Filipino guy Journey hired because he sounds just like Steve Perry had started his own band and wrote Journey-sounding songs with him singing them? I think most people would say "damn, they sound just like Journey!" but I don't think Journey would have a legal case against them.

[Baldwin Funster]

Nobody can "own" Star Trek. It now belongs to the world. Should I have to pay to say beam me up scotty? Or dammit Jim I'm a doctor not a ( ). Some things become property of the culture. Like I IV V blues.

[DulceLabs.com]

I can only imagine how this would go if it was "Star Wars". The Lucas lawyers would be on it like a pitbull on a poodle.

[zxcvbnm098]

Further off topic, I just watched the William Shatner produced documentary "Chaos On The Bridge" about the Next Generation reboot and how i almost never got made. Very entertaining. Roddenberry was quite the nut....

[Jazzmammal]

This would be like a significant portion of Journey's fan base using Kickstarter to hire a group of killer musicians to produce a new Journey album because the real group isn't doing enough or something like that and then after filing a lawsuit Neil Schoen decides to back off and let them do it.

 

But it wouldn't be a new Journey album, as they wouldn't be able to use the Journey name.

 

Oh yes they would in my musical example. That's the point of this thread. Axanar is using the Star Trek name, history, logos, designs, everything. It's a new Star Trek film but the production has nothing to do with CBS/Paramount and nobody asked permission. There is already a ton of Trek fan films on YT now, some half decent, some terrible so the producer simply said he was doing another one but then word got out concerning the production value of this. They actually constructed a studio, sets and have some mid level name actors. They're even selling Axanar coffee mugs and stuff with the Federation's logo on them.

 

That's why I said this would be a legal slam dunk and it was going that way until I just read about the superfans going nuts about this. That's what makes this so interesting. That fans might make a huge studio back down just amazes me.

 

The buzz is Axanar is really good, the story is set a few years before the original series. It's about the Federation's war with the Klingon's. Check it out:

 

http://www.axanarproductions.com/about/the-story/

 

Holy crap! I just searched this site for the first time and under Gallery is Videos. The first vid is Prelude to Axanar. Damn guys now I see what the talk is about. You have to check this out, this looks really good.

 

Bob

[16251]

I'm all in on star trek. IMO, Axanar can only keep Paramount on their toes. I don't think fans would stop watching the big studio offerings. I think the universe is big enough for both.

[Joe Muscara]

I was watching Star Trek: New Voyages for a while. The episodes were a continuation of TOS' five-year mission with obviously a different cast. BUT, they had support from several original cast members who appeared in episodes as well as some of the original writers and producers and Eugene Roddenberry (Gene's son).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_New_Voyages

 

This part is pertinent to this discussion (emphasis mine).

 

Legal Status & Controversy

 

Like all fan-films, New Voyages exists at the whim of the Star Trek franchise owners CBS (and previously Paramount Pictures), which has to date tolerated the distribution of fan-created material as long as no attempt was made to profit from it.[7]

 

This tolerance was tested in early 2012 when New Voyages announced that they would film "He Walked Among Us," an unproduced script that Norman Spinrad had sold to the original series. But when CBS claimed ownership of the material, the plans were cancelled. CBS had not protested over the series' use of "Blood and Fire", which had been written for Star Trek: The Next Generation; "The Child", and "Kitumba", which had been similarly developed in the late 1970s for the aborted series Star Trek: Phase II, or "Mind-Sifter" published by Bantam Books, because they were filmed before the Star Trek movies directed by JJ Abrams were in production. CBS wants to keep all material they have previously purchased or licensed in any way, as possible work to be drawn on for future licensed films.[8]

[Marzzz]

There actually several different productions of fan-based episodes out there, some of them are absolutely uncanny, right down to capturing the unintentional "cheesiness" of the Original Series. Do a Youtube search for "Star Trek Continues" for a good example.

[Synthaholic]

This would be like a significant portion of Journey's fan base using Kickstarter to hire a group of killer musicians to produce a new Journey album because the real group isn't doing enough or something like that and then after filing a lawsuit Neil Schoen decides to back off and let them do it.

 

But it wouldn't be a new Journey album, as they wouldn't be able to use the Journey name.

 

Oh yes they would in my musical example. That's the point of this thread. Axanar is using the Star Trek name, history, logos, designs, everything. It's a new Star Trek film but the production has nothing to do with CBS/Paramount and nobody asked permission. There is already a ton of Trek fan films on YT now, some half decent, some terrible so the producer simply said he was doing another one but then word got out concerning the production value of this. They actually constructed a studio, sets and have some mid level name actors. They're even selling Axanar coffee mugs and stuff with the Federation's logo on them.

 

That's why I said this would be a legal slam dunk and it was going that way until I just read about the superfans going nuts about this. That's what makes this so interesting. That fans might make a huge studio back down just amazes me.

 

The buzz is Axanar is really good, the story is set a few years before the original series. It's about the Federation's war with the Klingon's. Check it out:

 

http://www.axanarproductions.com/about/the-story/

 

Holy crap! I just searched this site for the first time and under Gallery is Videos. The first vid is Prelude to Axanar. Damn guys now I see what the talk is about. You have to check this out, this looks really good.

 

Bob

 

OK, that wasn't clear in the OP. When you said "Axanar is a Kickstarter funded million dollar total rip off of CBS/Paramount's Star Trek" I thought you meant they were doing an imitation with the same concepts: multi-cultural crew, alien First Officer, curmudgeonly doctor, etc. If they are using any of the copyrighted names they don't stand a chance in court, no matter how much anyone believes Star Trek is now part of "the world".

[Jazzmammal]

Right, yet JJAbrams says they're going to drop the case due to fan pressure. That's why I find this... "Fascinating".

 

If you haven't seen Prelude to Axanar, check it out. I was surprised by who's in it and the visuals while not up to current big budget CGI standards are comparable to the newer video games like Halo 4. In fact the scene where the Klingons are firing disruptors at the colony reminded me of Halo or Mass Effect.

 

Bob

[Synthoid]

If you haven't seen Prelude to Axanar, check it out. I was surprised by who's in it

 

Most impressive, and I was also surprised at the cast of this production. Two of the Star Fleet personnel played Klingons in TNG and DS-9.

 

 

http://www.geocities.ws/osmo_lukult/Series/StarTrek/TNG/Kurn_3x17.jpg

 

 

http://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/7-Martok.jpg

 

[Synthaholic]

Right, yet JJAbrams says they're going to drop the case due to fan pressure. That's why I find this... "Fascinating".

 

If you haven't seen Prelude to Axanar, check it out. I was surprised by who's in it and the visuals while not up to current big budget CGI standards are comparable to the newer video games like Halo 4. In fact the scene where the Klingons are firing disruptors at the colony reminded me of Halo or Mass Effect.

 

Bob

 

I'll check it out, but how is a director - no matter how big he is - able to decide copyright issues for a major studio like Paramount, with their army of bean-counters and lawyers? As this issue doesn't adversely affect Abrams' paycheck and he has no claims to the copyrighted Star Trek property it would seem to be none of his business.

[Jazzmammal]

JJ isn't deciding, he's saying this is what's going to happen based on his inside info. And it's not just him, there's another high level insider saying the same thing. You'll have to watch that vid to get the name, I can't remember it.

 

The first link I posted is two weeks old and they said CBS/Paramount was going to make their announcement in a few weeks. Speculation is it will be some sort of face saving "settlement" as in stop selling the coffee mugs and T shirts, make sure you're good little boys and we'll let you proceed. Or not, and they decide to just slam em. But if you haven't watched those other fan films, there is a history of letting these go with a wink and a nod.

 

Because of my experience with my home studio I'm well aware that computers age getting more and more powerful and the software is getting continually better. I've often thought how cool it would be to do something like this myself. And not just Trek, there's so many awesome books that have never been done like the Lensmen series or Asimov's Foundation and many others. But I'm sure those don't have the fanatical fan base able to put pressure on the IP owners.

 

I'm a big time Trek fan too although I gave up my Spock ears a long time ago so I'm very curious to see how this goes.

 

Bob

[Jazzmammal]

Well, now we know how this went. Not good for fans but legally I'm not surprised. Here it is:

 

http://www.startrek.com/fan-films?ecid=PCID-2617611&pa=affcj

 

Very restrictive. 50K max budget. 15 minutes for one show, max 30 minutes if it is two shows on same story. No actors who were ever in any of the ST shows or films. Must use officially licensed ST props and other merchandise including uniforms, and of course zero money of any kind going to anybody.

 

It's over unless there's a really huge fan backlash.

 

I watched the New Voyages and agree, not bad. I watched Odyssey, not too bad. I just checked, those are still up but not for long I'll bet.

 

Bob

[Joe Muscara]

I think the restrictions on length, amount of money that can be spent, and who can participate ("creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series") are too restrictive. New Voyages/Phase II had people like Walter Koenig in it, and some of the crew had worked on some real ST stuff before. The money amount will need to be adjusted for inflation as time passes. If someone has a good story to tell in an hour episode, let them.

 

I think the non-commercial aspects, disclaimers, etc. are fine.

 

JMO

[Synthoid]

If someone has a good story to tell in an hour episode, let them.

 

+1

 

I'm really disappointed with the restrictions.

[Synthaholic]

CBS, Paramount Tell 'Star Trek' Fans How They Can Make Fan Films Without Getting Sued

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/cbs-paramount-tell-star-trek-905960

[Stokely]

Personally, if there's a good story or many to tell, and good filmmakers to do make it so, then just do your own world-building.

 

Frankly that's my biggest beef with Star Trek in general, most of the content is so blah. The original series at least took some chances especially considering its budget, including adapting famous stories (Arena for one). Obviously there was some cheese there, especially season 3. I think it was the original pilot, Where No Man Has Gone Before--this captures the sci-fi heart and soul of Star Trek for me. Working on treaties between group A and group B on planet C...barf.

 

Subsequent series too often became General Hospital in space. There were some very nice story arcs in there though (enterprise C) and they explored some cool concepts with the holodeck ("when you leave, will I still exist? What will happen to my family" or something similar from one of the holodeck characters). The movies need to get the @#$# away from revenge as the plot...there are too many great ideas in sci-fi to fall back on that tired cliche. Both recent movies have been revenge movies...yawn. Do something epic and grand for once. I honestly think the idea for ST5 was the one embraced this the most, along with ST1...but it was pretty poor in execution IMO (this is the one where Sybok steals the Enterprise to find God). ymmv as always!

[Outkaster]

Personally, if there's a good story or many to tell, and good filmmakers to do make it so, then just do your own world-building.

 

Frankly that's my biggest beef with Star Trek in general, most of the content is so blah. The original series at least took some chances especially considering its budget, including adapting famous stories (Arena for one). Obviously there was some cheese there, especially season 3. I think it was the original pilot, Where No Man Has Gone Before--this captures the sci-fi heart and soul of Star Trek for me. Working on treaties between group A and group B on planet C...barf.

 

Subsequent series too often became General Hospital in space. There were some very nice story arcs in there though (enterprise C) and they explored some cool concepts with the holodeck ("when you leave, will I still exist? What will happen to my family" or something similar from one of the holodeck characters). The movies need to get the @#$# away from revenge as the plot...there are too many great ideas in sci-fi to fall back on that tired cliche. Both recent movies have been revenge movies...yawn. Do something epic and grand for once. I honestly think the idea for ST5 was the one embraced this the most, along with ST1...but it was pretty poor in execution IMO (this is the one where Sybok steals the Enterprise to find God). ymmv as always!

 

great post

[Jazzmammal]

Totally agree but in the modern world of young movie goers? Few are interested in real, subtle storylines anymore. Just like most new music. There are certainly niche audiences for that but no studio is going to produce a big budget scifi movie for a niche audience which is why some of these fan films are so cool.

 

I just recently found another great series, Star Trek Continues. This one is even better than New Voyages imho. Ep 1 is the return of Apollo using the same actor but he's about 80 now and is still great as the character. And the guy playing Kirk is really good. The best Kirk I've seen so far and that includes the new movies. The Apollo story is about how something went wrong in his godlike realm. Watching Apollo again makes you wonder about the connection between the Olympians and the Q.

 

Bob

[Outkaster]

Open Letter

 

The above is an interesting take.

[Joe Muscara]

Without having seen Alec Peters' response to the guidelines, I can't say if that open letter is generally right or if he's being a bit of a dick. My problem with this open letter is that it's not nice. Even if Alec Peters is behaving as he describes, the open letter's tone won't get him to change at all, I'm sure.

[Outkaster]

I agree but he is right in a sense.