buh-bye aftertouch

[zephonic]

May is gonna be a busy month with lots of new gigs and better things coming up. That's good.

 

But it looks like my trusty old FantomX7 won't be there with me. I got the word that some of the parts are hard to come by, and a few even no longer being made.

 

So my plan to get her fixed and ready for the season is out and it's time for a replacement. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of financial setbacks for us, so a new Motif XF7 or Jupiter 80 is just not a realistic option at this time. Most likely I'll have to settle for something without aftertouch, and no 76 keys.

 

It's gonna be weird, after more than fifteen years it has become an integral part of my playing, and it will probably take a while before I unlearn to press a key for modulation etc.

 

And the 61-key form factor will be limiting for those one-keyboard gigs, but I guess I'll just have to get comfy with it.

 

Buh-bye, aftertouch. I'll miss you.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Sucky. But I feel you on finances being tight. very tight to say the least.

 

So what were you thinking? Jupiter-50?

 

What's the budget?

[Baldwin Funster]

The impulse 61 has aftertouch. Motidave has one in garage sale for $240. Some have denigrated the keybed. I like it . At least for organ. Way better than maudio or alesis at least.

[zephonic]

Sucky. But I feel you on finances being tight. very tight to say the least.

 

So what were you thinking? Jupiter-50?

 

What's the budget?

 

Yeah, I was thinking more FA-06, but perhaps I should stretch and just get a JP-50. I'll lose aftertouch but at least I'll still have 76 keys.

 

[zephonic]

The impulse 61 has aftertouch. Motidave has one in garage sale for $240. Some have denigrated the keybed. I like it . At least for organ. Way better than maudio or alesis at least.

 

That's a controller. My 2013 MacBookAir is a fine laptop but a little underspec'd for heavy-duty VI use, and I need bullet-proof reliability for the stuff I've got coming up.

 

If I had money for a new MacBookPro, I'd have money for Motif XF7 or Jupiter 80.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

76 keys on a decent synth action with lots of super natural sounds.

[zephonic]

Yes, but I thought that the FA has more sounds and newer stuff?

 

[analogholic]

What about a used Motif ES7/XS7?

Does the new board have to be new?

[Jim Alfredson]

[video:youtube]pFrMLRQIT_k

[Morizzle]

Hey Menno, if you're sensitive to a good keyboard action, don't get the FA-06, trust me. I like everything about this board except its crappy, crappy keys.

[stoken6]

Kurz PC3 or PC3LE7 has aftertouch if you can handle the action? It doesn't feel "cheap" like a FA06 or Yamaha MOX6, but it's springier and mushier than the best synth actions.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[DanL]

Buy the controller and use it on the X7? Is it the keybed that's failing on that or other things?

[allan_evett]

Man, I'd miss the X7 too; tons of goodness in those 76 key Fantoms - including the solid, synth action and aftertouch.

 

If there's just no way to get the X7 back into shape, then the Jupiter 50 is likely the closest, most cost-effective solution right now. As you're used to a 76-key Roland, I think you'd fall right in with the JP50. Granted, no aftertouch, but it feels great to play and sounds excellent.

[Michael W]

Beware of using a Jupiter-50 for playing out. I have one, and it has fantastic sounds, and a very nice synth-action keybed.

 

But moving quickly between patches is very challenging.

 

Yes, you have those colored buttons where you can store your two favorite piano sounds, two favorite EP sounds, two favorite synth leads, two favorite organ sounds, etc. But outside of that, you're using a wheel to scroll endlessly through hundreds of patches to find the one you want.

 

Need an inexpensive 61-key instrument for playing out? I'd get an MOXF6 in a heartbeat. It's loaded with GREAT sounds, and offers User Banks where any sound you desire can be one or two button pushes away. And if you REALLY want to save money, pick up a used MOX6.

 

Lastly, these instruments weigh something like 15 lbs max, and can easily be carried around in a gig bag.

[ElmerJFudd]

^

excellent advice.

although the Jupiter-50 does sound very good, you're not the first to complain about the UI. Apparently splits and layers can be done but it's not straight forward.

 

compared to FA-06, there's not much debate the Jupiter-50 has the supernatural stuff, the FA-06 only some. And synth action - the FA-06 not so great - same as VR-09 I believe if you've every played that. Some are satisfied with it, I pass on it without hesitation.

[Stokely]

If you only needed synth, and could get by with 61 keys, I'd recommend heartily a used Virus. Obviously those are probably major requirements! The aftertouch (physical feel, programming) on that board is the best by a long shot I've ever tried.

[vonnor]

Used Fantom XR with a controller, is that an option? You'd have the same exact patches.

 

~ vonnor

[wineandkeyz]

What parts do you need for your Fantom X7? Over the past couple years, I've ordered replacement parts for my two X7s from the following vendors:

 

Syntaur

Full Compass

Gregory Walbeck in Germany

[zephonic]

What about a used Motif ES7/XS7?

Does the new board have to be new?

 

Yeah, that was a possibility, but I wouldn't buy one unseen on the internet. I saw a few locally, but they weren't in much better shape than the Fantom. When they are in pristine condition, the are usually far north of $2K.

 

Hey Menno, if you're sensitive to a good keyboard action, don't get the FA-06, trust me. I like everything about this board except its crappy, crappy keys.

 

Crappy keys me no likey. Ill try it, but if its spongebob-city, pass.

 

Kurz PC3 or PC3LE7 has aftertouch if you can handle the action? It doesn't feel "cheap" like a FA06 or Yamaha MOX6, but it's springier and mushier than the best synth actions.

 

I remember playing one years ago when West LA was still in business. Unpleasant action. These days, you can't find them anywhere here. If I come across one, I'll try it again.

 

I can see myself replacing my bottom board (NP88) with an Artis or Forte, but for now Kurz is not on my non-weighted list.

 

Buy the controller and use it on the X7? Is it the keybed that's failing on that or other things?

 

No, the keyboard is fine, and I will continue to use it as a controller at home. For all its flaws, the Fantoms synth action is unparalleled. But the buttons are crap. I had some of them fixed last year and theyre crapping out again. Can you say money pit?

 

As you're used to a 76-key Roland, I think you'd fall right in with the JP50. Granted, no aftertouch, but it feels great to play and sounds excellent.

 

Hey Allan, Do I remember correctly you have one or used to have one? Can you tell me a little more about your experience with it?

 

Beware of using a Jupiter-50 for playing out. I have one, and it has fantastic sounds, and a very nice synth-action keybed.

 

But moving quickly between patches is very challenging.

 

Yes, you have those colored buttons where you can store your two favorite piano sounds, two favorite EP sounds, two favorite synth leads, two favorite organ sounds, etc. But outside of that, you're using a wheel to scroll endlessly through hundreds of patches to find the one you want.

 

Yikes, that would be a dealbreaker. But Im skimming through the manual, and my understanding is that you have registrations? I use my Fantom in Performance Mode 90% of the time, as I have a lot of splits and layers I work with.

 

The JP-50 seems a little limited, as you can only layer four sounds in the upper part, and one each in the lower and solo part, whereas the Fantom can do sixteen in a performance. Also, it seems like you cant assign MFX to the lower and solo part. And it remains unclear whether you can assign multiple split points

 

I have some more reading to do.

 

If you only needed synth, and could get by with 61 keys, I'd recommend heartily a used Virus. Obviously those are probably major requirements! The aftertouch (physical feel, programming) on that board is the best by a long shot I've ever tried.

 

The Virus is an intriguing instrument. Id love to try one, but for now I need something more all-round.

 

Thanks all for chiming in.

 

[CEB]

GC has used:

1)XF7 - 2000

2)XF6 - 1800

3)G6 - 1500

4)M3 61 - 950

 

The thing about a new Jupiter or MOXF is you can get a new one on a store card with 24 month + interest free deals so you can kind of manage your cash flow in case you get hit with car, home, or appliance repair. I normally would not buy a board if I couldn't afford to pay cash but if you have gigs you need a board. I got my Kronos on a 36 month deal. I didn't take 36 months to pay it off but it did allow me to buy it sooner than I normally would have and I was able to build all my Combis last year before Memorial Day and was set for the busy season.

 

I would check with Syntaur for parts if you have not already done so. Rebuilding patches is a pain and your Fantom is nice. Syntaur has been a God send to me in the past.

 

 

 

[CEB]

PS - A new board that has me curious is the Artis-7. 76 keys compact length, semi weighted. The layout looks really gig friendly.

 

But I never played one. You still don't have aftertouch. I don't know what the action is like. But it "LOOKS" like a decent live controller and it is 1600-1700 new street. I would still rather have the X7 of course.

 

http://kurzweil.com/product/artis7/

 

[zephonic]

Thanks for the heads-up on Syntaur. That is very good to know.

 

Local GC was clearing out a new Motif XF6 for $1800 last month, but I didn't go for it, because I was still thinking fixing the Fantom or buying a new Motif XF7 (this was when I still thought I had the money, lol).

 

 

Refurbing the Fantom is not just a matter of parts availability, but also of time and money. And last year's experience has left me feeling this could turn into a money pit. Maybe I'll have it done one day, but not now.

 

The Fantom has been with me for eleven years, on three different continents and survived United Airlines. It feels like it is time to retire it to the home studio, and get a new daily driver.

 

[hookie]

How about an Integra with a nice controller of your choice?

[stoken6]

How about an Integra with a nice controller of your choice?

the keyboard is fine, and I will continue to use it as a controller

 

Add an Integra to your now-controller-only X7? Carry a cheapo 61 controller as a backup in case the X7 finally dies.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[zephonic]

I feel it's time to retire the Fantom to home use only.

 

A full refurb may make it gig-worthy again, but it seems now is not the right time to do so.

 

[MotiDave]

The impulse 61 has aftertouch. Motidave has one in garage sale for $240. Some have denigrated the keybed. I like it . At least for organ. Way better than maudio or alesis at least.

if someone asks nice the price could drop.

[brenner13]

Love my X7 even with the couple of buttons that take some coaxing and the wonky pitch bend. Aftertouch is only occasionally used for a little vibrato and slight filter swells in my case. I extensively used aftertouch for upward pitch bend on the SY77 because the AT is soooo expressive and easy to control on that one, but I digress.

 

I'm a 76'r at heart and really find 61's rather confining if that's the only board I can play. Fortunately the 8va buttons are a breeze on the VR09 when riding single, but I digress again. VR's keys are very similar to FA...a huge step down from the Fantom.

 

+1 for Syntaur. That place has done me right on several occasions.

+1000 for MotiDave. Cool dude.

[Tom Williams]

Man, I couldn't go without at least mono AT.

 

What about a 2-stack, driving t a good sounding, aftertouchless 76 note 'board on channel two using a relatively inexpensive (e.g., M-Audio) 61 with aftertouch? I currently do the converse of that -- driving a PC361 with a non-AT 88 key board, so I get one wide piano and one expressive lead manual.

 

BTW, depending on budget limitations, you may want to consider a used K2600.

 

[KeyMoe]

I have an X7 that's been in the closet for a couple years. PM me if interested

 

Also Some of the big retailers GC, MF and a couple others are blowing out the Motif XFs and there is a rebate on top of that. Came real close last week to pulling the trigger on the Motif XF 6, but really just don't need one as I have an XF7.

[Michael W]

But Im skimming through the manual, and my understanding is that you have registrations? I use my Fantom in Performance Mode 90% of the time, as I have a lot of splits and layers I work with.

 

The JP-50 seems a little limited, as you can only layer four sounds in the upper part, and one each in the lower and solo part, whereas the Fantom can do sixteen in a performance. Also, it seems like you cant assign MFX to the lower and solo part. And it remains unclear whether you can assign multiple split points

 

1) Yes, the Jupiter-50 has registrations, but IMHO they're not the most convenient to use. They're accessed through four buttons, basically, requiring multiple button-presses to get to the desired bank and specific registration stored in that bank. I guess if you are playing a live show, and have all of these things worked out, and memorized, then you could use them effectively, and set up to minimize button-presses.

 

2) The Jupiter-50 is difficult to compare to a typical 16-part multi-timbral workstation. Yes, you can have four sounds in an "Upper Part", but these are four "tones" (I think they're called) and probably shouldn't be compared exactly to typical presets on a workstation.

 

3) You are correct about the inability to add MFX to the upper and lower parts, and IMHO this is a significant shortcoming. For example, you can assign a lead synth sound to the upper part, and put reverb on it, but not delay. Frustrating.

 

4) You can define split points within a registration for the lower, upper, and solo parts. I believe you can also allow them to overlap. And in an "upper" part, which contains four tones, you can define the key ranges for each of the tones.

 

I must admit that 95% of the time I have just used my Jupiter-50 to play one "upper part" at a time. I have found it very easy to tweak and create patches on my own - although the interface is rather obtuse, I've been using Motif and MOX instruments forever, and the Jupiter interface is actually more intuitive than those on the Yamahas. The good thing is that there's an "advanced" or "expert" mode or something like that, where you can scroll through all of a sound's parameters quickly and set them as you wish, without having to scroll through pages and menus.

 

Despite the J-50 being billed by Roland as a "performance" instrument, I find that to be a bit misleading. Again, if you're playing in a band and have everything pre-planned and worked out in advance, it would be feasible to have the instrument all set up, with the parts and registrations programmed to do whatever you want to do.

 

But again, it's not a good idea to think of the J-50 in terms of your typical 16-part workstation. I am not really sure what Roland intended with these Jupiters, but I can tell you this: THEY SOUND GREAT and are capable of producing some incredibly gorgeous complex and layered sounds. I had an ARP Quadra back in the late 70's, which allowed you to split/layer a bass patch, a basic polysynth patch, and a lead synth patch. The Jupiters are like mega-Quadras from the future - they are prog-rock heaven - and best used for their individual sounds (the SuperNatural ones are very impressive), as well as for big, layered, stacks of sounds.

 

The Jupiters are probably the most misunderstood keyboards made in recent memory, and I'm not sure that Roland understood them, either. They basically combined a bunch of SuperNatural sounds (gorgeous pianos, EPs, guitars, winds, etc.) with a surprisingly sophisticated VA synth. And understand that the VA synth is a huge part of what the Jupiters are about - many people think they are just standard Romplers, which is not the case.

 

I have had a love-hate relationship with my Jupiter-50. It can be very frustrating at times, due to certain limitations, but the sounds are simply fantastic.

 

[video:youtube]3EHztr6NkOc

 

[video:youtube]rrJsJkxcCZk

 

[video:youtube]DZd4ItdTvC8