Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

For Dumbies, series are popular.. I need one for FOH


Recommended Posts

in 8 hours or so ( 1:15AM PST right now- btw a last minute call for this gig ) I am playing an outdoor car show by the beach. A PA of course is present but my consistent experience with sound men and their methods, yields my always being glad I gave into caution and dragged a monitor on stage. It never fails that if I had no monitor my sound and my balance in the band, would suffer .

But I am not smart with things electronic- as my earlier post suggests, I plan on dragging my Bose L1 to gig as a monitor.

There is always more than one or two ways to do something

my simplistic way is to route Left out to FOH or Right

and the other Out to my Monitor. Somehow I am sure there is a smarter way.

Anyone care to help? Thank you.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 20
  • Created
  • Last Reply
in 8 hours or so ( 1:15AM PST right now- btw a last minute call for this gig ) I am playing an outdoor car show by the beach. A PA of course is present but my consistent experience with sound men and their methods, yields my always being glad I gave into caution and dragged a monitor on stage. It never fails that if I had no monitor my sound and my balance in the band, would suffer .

But I am not smart with things electronic- as my earlier post suggests, I plan on dragging my Bose L1 to gig as a monitor.

There is always more than one or two ways to do something

my simplistic way is to route Left out to FOH or Right

and the other Out to my Monitor. Somehow I am sure there is a smarter way.

Anyone care to help? Thank you.

 

I assume you´ play your organ clone only.

If yes, use a active DI accepting line level instument signal at it´s input.

Use the parallel Out to your monitor and go balanced mic level out to FOH/PA.

This is for MONO.

For stereo, you need 2 DIs or a stereo DI.

The PA company, if professional, should be able to provide at least one active DI for you.

If not, you still have 8 hrs to buy one. :cool:

 

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I disagree. You can definitely do it that way, and it wouldn't be wrong. It's the academically correct answer. But it's not the fun one.

 

(BTW, no need for an active DI. Why active? Active adds nothing but noise (though I admit not much) and is more hassle. A good passive DI is the way to go.)

 

I do agree that if you want true "proper" stereo, you need to send stereo to FOH, so you need two DI channels. I do this, so I have a 2-channel DI (Rolls ProD2, great bit of kit). In that case, you can monitor one side with a single monitor, or both sides. Both is better, IMHO.

 

But frankly, it'll sound pretty cool to you, and to the band, and to the folks up front, if you run bastardized. Send one channel to FOH (though a DI) and the other to your L1. You'll love it, and so will folks who hear both your L1 and the mains.

 

Will it be proper, correct, identically imaged stereo? Hell no, but whever does a real Leslie sound that way? Or a real piano in a lively room? This isn't a carefully imaged CD you're playing, it's an instrument with some stereo imaging to give it life. Let it live, let it breathe. Let it do its thing in an unusual way. I bet you won't regret it.

 

Be sure to try your stereo Rhodes vibrato too!

 

My choice is true stereo. If I'm stuck with one monitor, I use one monitor and monitor just the right (or left) side. But if FOH is mono, then I run bastardized!

 

PS: the summed mono output on keyboards is for losers. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I disagree. You can definitely do it that way, and it wouldn't be wrong. It's the academically correct answer. But it's not the fun one.

 

I'll let others take you on for this position ;) , I have to hit the road shortly... but first:

 

I have a 2-channel DI (Rolls Radial ProD2, great bit of kit).

 

Fixed. :2thu:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sven, I'm a little disappointed that you didn't provide links to the Billion times this has come up in other threads. Are you feeling ok?

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in 8 hours or so ( 1:15AM PST right now- btw a last minute call for this gig ) I am playing an outdoor car show by the beach. A PA of course is present but my consistent experience with sound men and their methods, yields my always being glad I gave into caution and dragged a monitor on stage. It never fails that if I had no monitor my sound and my balance in the band, would suffer .

But I am not smart with things electronic- as my earlier post suggests, I plan on dragging my Bose L1 to gig as a monitor.

There is always more than one or two ways to do something

my simplistic way is to route Left out to FOH or Right

and the other Out to my Monitor. Somehow I am sure there is a smarter way.

Anyone care to help? Thank you.

 

I assume you´ play your organ clone only.

If yes, use a active DI accepting line level instument signal at it´s input.

Use the parallel Out to your monitor and go balanced mic level out to FOH/PA.

This is for MONO.

For stereo, you need 2 DIs or a stereo DI.

The PA company, if professional, should be able to provide at least one active DI for you.

If not, you still have 8 hrs to buy one. :cool:

 

A.C.

"Dumbie" asks Mr Coda - Is my $250 stereo Radial DI ( I do not know the name its in the truck now it is an emerald Green color-) the one which constitutes an "active" DI?

I do not know the difference between active DI and whatever the other one is called. Active suggests plugging DI into the power!

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes. Active DIs do need some source of electricity.

 

In my opinion, there is no point to an Active DI and some drawbacks.

 

Wes

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My experience with FOH is ' bring a freaking monitor or you will suffer'. So on this very large outdoor area, I dragged the Bose L1 model 2 with the Bose Mixmaster mixer. I figured the crappy sounding Fantom ac piano needed all the help it could get. The bass player and I complained to ourselves and agreed that bringing an amp/monitor for the stage was a vital idea. The only sound reinforcement for band and singer was two small EAW wedges on a LARGE stage. The rest was far away from us, for the park area which we could not hear at all.

 

I had just sent ( and then received back ) the ridiculously priced amp section back to Bose for a distortion issue . Bose amp was fresh from Bose factory repair. I used a stereo DI and the Bose and went stereo into the FOH, mono on stage w Bose.

I was underwhelmed with the lack of "tone" on this combo Bose with Fantom. No matter how I turned the PARA eq and the EQ it sounded thin. I have heard Bose bit about no lows no highs must be Bose. and B bring O Other S Sound E Equipment. I have always known this, but yesterday, really sent it home. Obviously Bose is limited in its usefulness.

To add insult to injury ( for me this is injury ) the damn Bose had the same distortion it had when I sent it back to Bose. So now I have to look elsewhere in the proprietary Bose signal chain to find the distortion.

 

I am an above average full time ( no teaching ) musician - not determined by family and friends, but by 100's of musicians during my half century in music biz... all I am asking for is a couple of solutions - I do not no from impedance mismatch and so on.. I read about it here. very much appreciate you guys taking the time.

I know Dave Ferris and Steve Nathan are bad ass musicians who likely use a variety of, always on the money, rigs, depending on the situation.

 

One of Dave's "solutions", is a very expensive one

You can mention it here, but I may not be able to afford it.

If willing, indicate what gear you KNOW will be not too heavy ( lower back beginning to suggest I go lighter drat ) or too expensive for a stereo gig with left hand bass most of the time.

I have a Bose that has sounded good when supported by a single Eon 15 on the floor between me and drums.

 

2 K10's seem to be very dependent on their position.. seem to be best on stands.

 

I have 3 Eons G2 15's- but two need repair which is a crao shoot when that will be completed, due to JBL lack of parts availability.

 

I have a stereo DI

an older small Mackie mixer ( I am assuming the older mackie mixer is better sounding than the newer one )

 

In the past, 2 Eon 15's were one of the best solutions. Attempting to improve on them ( their issues which need repair - Virtual Sound Tech in Pasadena said they CAN repair them, but have to wait an indeterminate time for parts ) has proved very difficult indeed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Dumbie" asks Mr Coda - Is my $250 stereo Radial DI ( I do not know the name its in the truck now it is an emerald Green color-) the one which constitutes an "active" DI?

I do not know the difference between active DI and whatever the other one is called. Active suggests plugging DI into the power!

 

Miss RT,- I assume your green Radial stereo DI is the JDI or JDI Duplex passive.

Nonetheless, both should do the job pretty well because they come w/ -15dB pad switches for each channel!

So, I think you´re covered ! :2thu:

I also hope -15dB attenuation is enough for what comes out from your organ clone´s line outputs.

 

In fact, I "recommended" active because there are many passive DIs out there offering no level attenuation, may it be pad switches or gain-stage switches, where most active DIs do.

Imagine what happens if you use a passive DI made for HiZ guitar levels which are extremely low and you feed in your keyboard line level signals.

 

I recognized the Radial ClassA active Super DI comes w/ more options, -30dB pad at the input and -15dB at the output, in addition to several other goodies.

 

B.t.w., until now I had no clue about how the Radials work because I have a custom designed 19" rackmount stereo DI for unbalanced line input levels up to +4dB only.

Passive too and separate groundlifts for each channel.

 

A.C.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been doing a little reading on this subject. I heard used the term "input sensitivity".

My sense of it is, There is an ideal input sensitivity that matches up ideally with a mixer. I am seeking the best possible sound from the keyboards I use, as possible; not just from high end amps which are out of $$ range, but from more careful matching of impedance.

Barely understood terms, impedance, input sensitivity , gain stage, seems to be the umbrella term for all of this.

Just skipping the mixer and using the mixer that is part of the Eon G2, seemed to yield decent results. But since I use different keyboards, it seems like there would be variations in impedance in each of these keyboards, and to get an ideal match between pre amp and keyboard, I may want to consider a device that controls degrees of impedance.

Anyone with patience and compassion here, can maybe see where I am going with this! I want ideal sound from mid level pre and power amps. If I have to go back to separate components I might consider it.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Yorkville NX55P speakers have a small built in mixer, sensitivity knob, link in and link out ports. There isn't a keyboard on the planet that does not work well with them IMHO. And I have never yet needed a DI, although I pack one just in case. The unbalanced->balanced coversion by the speaker is fine with keyboards that need it, and I can just use the link ports with the Yamaha CP4.

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also hope -15dB attenuation is enough for what comes out from your organ clone´s line outputs.
(As I'm sure you know but for the benefit of others:)

 

Keep in mind that the 15dB attenuation is in addition to the "built-in" ~20dB of attenuation caused by the choice of step-down transformer windings. Boxes that don't step down (with 1:1 windings) are generally called "isolators".

 

Regardless, you're right that the standard 20dB attenuation sometimes isn't enough, especially with +4dBu keyboards and mixers without pad switches, and you're right that nearly any active preamp would have the necessary range.

 

Selecting a DI Box, from Radial Engineering.

So, when made by Radial,- JDI-Duplex is it for DP and synths.

Quoth the man who believes "The very best is almost good enough." ;-)

 

Radial also makes the ProD2, which is what I use and highly recommend. At $150, considerably less expensive than the $350 JDI. JDIs have the coveted but expensive Jensen transformers. Radial's Pro line use transformers they designed to optimize performance at a lower cost, but still superior to the typical off-the-shelf transformers used by most brands.

 

The JDI Duplex is larger than the ProD2, and has these additional features:

* XLR & RCA inputs, and stereo 1/8", in addition to 1/4"

* Signal inversion switch ("180 degree phase shift")

* Merge function (allows you to use two stereo keyboards w/o mixer)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Dumbie" question: The DI is only used for FOH? There is no reason for me to think there is another use for it in my typical ( seldom use FOH ) stereo rig, yes?

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are not Going to FOH, not plugging into a mic-level input, and your cord is less than 30' long, you do not need a DI IMO.

 

Wes

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...