Shops can't hold stock or keep a showroom, sgn of the times?

[ElmerJFudd]

Visited my local shops last night - was hoping to play the latest and greatest. About 10mins outside NYC, Jersey side.

 

Roland - an RD800

Kurzweil - nothing

Yamaha - demo unit of a MotifXF8, looks like it's been on the floor a long time. An MOXF6.

Korg - A KronosX6 - same condition as the XF8

Hammond - nothing

Casio - nothing, no PX-5S

Nord - nothing

Kawai - nothing

A little corner section of bottom of the line stuff from Williams

 

Sam Ash - a little better

Roland - FA08 and FA06

Kurzweil - nothing

Yamaha - XF, MOX, MX

Korg - KronosX6, Krome

Hammond - XK-3C

Casio - nothing, no PX-5S

Nord - Electro 4SW 73

Kawai - nothing

Large home digital piano section lots of models from Yamaha, Roland, Casio

 

I realize online is killing the brick and mortar shops. But how much are we saving when we can't try before we buy and we have to deal with returns or being stuck with something we never had a chance to actually play?

[Song80s]

as consumers, the economics are telling us we can't have super cheap prices and the expectation that we can demo every type of board at retail.

 

AFAIAC, the major roll of the dice is whether or not you like the keybed. 2nd place is navigating or the ' flow ' assuming its somewhat complex.

 

But with all the demos on the Internet, sound cloud, reviews, its not a reach to rely on that, assuming you have some experience with the manufacturer.

 

Over the past 12 yrs of purchases, I have not demoed 1 board or module that I purchased. All roland, yamaha, Korg stuff.

[Markay]

as consumers, the economics are telling us we can't have super cheap prices and the expectation that we can demo every type of board at retail.

We could if the manufacturer or distributor supported retailers with floor stock. They get the same wholesale whether it is sold on the net or in a bricks and mortar outlet.

 

Wherever I go the only brand I always see on display is Yamaha. They must have some global incentive program for retailers to have floor units that other KB manufacturers don't.

[Song80s]

as consumers, the economics are telling us we can't have super cheap prices and the expectation that we can demo every type of board at retail.

We could if the manufacturer or distributor supported retailers with floor stock. They get the same wholesale whether it is sold on the net or in a bricks and mortar outlet.

 

Wherever I go the only brand I always see on display is Yamaha. They must have some global incentive program for retailers to have floor units that other KB manufacturers don't.

 

worked for Sony for 9 yrs. In that business, all the mfg.'s offered floor stock to show if they carried at least 1 in stock. Unfortunately, the retailers, as you would expect , would sell both, ruining the demo concept. The retailers could simply hold the floor model and reorder for stock but they are always driven by the opportunity to make a sale on what they have

[I-missRichardTee]

As an older feller. I'm not crazy about the situation

 

A local guitar center has had very little stock

But one 40 miles away thankfully had a Lot of keyboards

 

Expanding on topic

I remember the good old days when you could go to a store for a part and it actually had the part ( auto parts come to mjnd )

The other day after losing A peripheral to a Samsung tablet

I was frustrated with no power supply in stock ( call Samsung and go through a rigamarole ) and no writing pen for it either

 

Back in the day. A gas station only sold Automotive related stock

Now you can buy milk there

 

In the mad grab for solvency we can buy an auto part in a milk store

Chewing gum in a brothel

What this accomplishes is a general lessening of choices and quality of choices

I could be wrong but that's a hunch

 

[burningbusch]

YOu can take a Google Maps tour of one of the nicer keyboard stores in the Seattle area. I can't complain.

 

American Music Seattle

 

Busch.

[EscapeRocks]

as consumers, the economics are telling us we can't have super cheap prices and the expectation that we can demo every type of board at retail.

We could if the manufacturer or distributor supported retailers with floor stock. They get the same wholesale whether it is sold on the net or in a bricks and mortar outlet.

 

Wherever I go the only brand I always see on display is Yamaha. They must have some global incentive program for retailers to have floor units that other KB manufacturers don't.

 

worked for Sony for 9 yrs. In that business, all the mfg.'s offered floor stock to show if they carried at least 1 in stock. Unfortunately, the retailers, as you would expect , would sell both, ruining the demo concept. The retailers could simply hold the floor model and reorder for stock but they are always driven by the opportunity to make a sale on what they have

 

Greg, a local GC here finally has a new Kronos. It is the only one they are stocking. They immediately put it out on the floor (well the wall rack). In a couple weeks it's already had the crap beat out of it by kids pulling knobs, etc...

 

So fine, I could try the Kronos, and order online.

[Bif_]

Sadly I've bought very little from a local mom and pop music shop. I know the keyboard guy well and he's very knowledgeable but was always inflexible on the price.

 

I rarely go there anymore because I know I can buy significantly cheaper elsewhere and am not going to make him feel like I'm using him or the store for window shopping.

 

I travel with my job and occasionally stop by GC or Sam Ash in areas I visit. They are often a mixed bag but most lean toward poor selection, poor amplification, poor quality of the demo instrument.

 

Sweetwater has an impressive showroom and is proof that you can be an online retailer and have brick and mortar too.

 

Bottom line is all business keeps getting tougher.

[EscapeRocks]

As an older feller. I'm not crazy about the situation

 

A local guitar center has had very little stock

But one 40 miles away thankfully had a Lot of keyboards

 

It is interesting in my great Dallas area. My closest GC barely stock more than the home digital pianos on display, while the pro-level boards are the same worn out, overly beat up things that have been in there for years.

 

Then the next closest (but no where near me) has a wonderful key department with people who actually know keyboards...

 

I fully understand how hard it is to front the cash to floor demo boards, but it has gotten to the point that it's very hard for the consumer to try something.

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

It's not just about us. The player. It's about kids Nd amateurs

If you can't sit in play an instrument. It is a sad chapter in our history

[ProfD]

Sweetwater has an impressive showroom and is proof that you can be an online retailer and have brick and mortar too.

I would imagine Sweetwater does not have to deal with the same kind of foot traffic as a Guitar or Sam Ash. So, the gear should stay in pristine condition too. I need to visit that place one day.

[Keysguy]

Price dictates everything. If musicians can get it cheaper online they will and forgo the hands on experience. Relying on Youtube and other online demos seems to be the best alternative. Bought my Roland BK9 that way because no one had one. Love it BTW.

Keeping stock of the ever changing models is a big challenge for any store.

I for one feel guilty of using the store for a demo and then buying online, however I recently did that for some PA speakers. Demo'd them at the store and asked if they could match or at least get close to the online price. I was being honest but they wouldn't budge so with a significant differance in prices I had to go with online.

Mu wife worked in a high end womens clothing store. You don't wanna know how many times she told me women would come in and spend a good amount of time witn one of the store's shopping assistants and then turn to a friend and say "I'm going to look this up online because its cheaper."

[Song80s]

as consumers, the economics are telling us we can't have super cheap prices and the expectation that we can demo every type of board at retail.

We could if the manufacturer or distributor supported retailers with floor stock. They get the same wholesale whether it is sold on the net or in a bricks and mortar outlet.

 

Wherever I go the only brand I always see on display is Yamaha. They must have some global incentive program for retailers to have floor units that other KB manufacturers don't.

 

worked for Sony for 9 yrs. In that business, all the mfg.'s offered floor stock to show if they carried at least 1 in stock. Unfortunately, the retailers, as you would expect , would sell both, ruining the demo concept. The retailers could simply hold the floor model and reorder for stock but they are always driven by the opportunity to make a sale on what they have

 

Greg, a local GC here finally has a new Kronos. It is the only one they are stocking. They immediately put it out on the floor (well the wall rack). In a couple weeks it's already had the crap beat out of it by kids pulling knobs, etc...

 

So fine, I could try the Kronos, and order online.

 

We have the same problem here in the Concord GC . Parents let their 8 yr olds run amuck in the keyboard section on saturdays. Its like Toys R Us on Xmas eve. Keyboards get trashed. The salespeople seem to tolerate it, possibly its hopeless

[Song80s]

Price dictates everything. If musicians can get it cheaper online they will and forgo the hands on experience. Relying on Youtube and other online demos seems to be the best alternative. Bought my Roland BK9 that way because no one had one. Love it BTW.

Keeping stock of the ever changing models is a big challenge for any store.

I for one feel guilty of using the store for a demo and then buying online, however I recently did that for some PA speakers. Demo'd them at the store and asked if they could match or at least get close to the online price. I was being honest but they wouldn't budge so with a significant differance in prices I had to go with online.

Mu wife worked in a high end womens clothing store. You don't wanna know how many times she told me women would come in and spend a good amount of time witn one of the store's shopping assistants and then turn to a friend and say "I'm going to look this up online because its cheaper."

 

almost every shopper is using price check apps on their smart phones. the apps have gotten good at displaying the item wanted, cheapest price, and closest store

[EscapeRocks]

Greg, a local GC here finally has a new Kronos. It is the only one they are stocking. They immediately put it out on the floor (well the wall rack). In a couple weeks it's already had the crap beat out of it by kids pulling knobs, etc...

 

So fine, I could try the Kronos, and order online.

 

We have the same problem here in the Concord GC . Parents let their 8 yr olds run amuck in the keyboard section on saturdays. Its like Toys R Us on Xmas eve. Keyboards get trashed. The salespeople seem to tolerate it, possibly its hopeless

 

 

I once asked the local GC "manager" about this very thing. He says he's been told to let it go, unless they're pulling the board off the wall They don't want to make the parents angry who may be spending a lot of $$$ in another department.

 

Basically, my local GC's pro audio/keyboard department is the weekend babysitter for parents shopping for guitars or drums.

[Sven Golly]

Wherever I go the only brand I always see on display is Yamaha. They must have some global incentive program for retailers to have floor units that other KB manufacturers don't.

 

They don't.

[Sven Golly]

YOu can take a Google Maps tour of one of the nicer keyboard stores in the Seattle area. I can't complain.

 

American Music Seattle

 

Busch.

 

You guys should come to Toronto.

 

 

 

[Michael Wright]

I routinely research the net, and order/buy from big city stores. The guy I deal with in TO goes out of his way to help me, ordering instruments that they are dealers for, but do not stock. I have no issue paying a little more, developing business relationships with good people.

[Michael Wright]

You guys should come to Toronto.

Dropped in there with my wife. She was not impressed. Who can figure? :idk

[Song80s]

Greg, a local GC here finally has a new Kronos. It is the only one they are stocking. They immediately put it out on the floor (well the wall rack). In a couple weeks it's already had the crap beat out of it by kids pulling knobs, etc...

 

So fine, I could try the Kronos, and order online.

 

We have the same problem here in the Concord GC . Parents let their 8 yr olds run amuck in the keyboard section on saturdays. Its like Toys R Us on Xmas eve. Keyboards get trashed. The salespeople seem to tolerate it, possibly its hopeless

 

 

I once asked the local GC "manager" about this very thing. He says he's been told to let it go, unless they're pulling the board off the wall They don't want to make the parents angry who may be spending a lot of $$$ in another department.

 

Basically, my local GC's pro audio/keyboard department is the weekend babysitter for parents shopping for guitars or drums.

 

Same thing here. I think the routine is to feed the boys Sugar Pops, eat candy in the car, then go to GC to check out the effect boxes and let the boys display their musical talent in the keyboard dept.

[burningbusch]

YOu can take a Google Maps tour of one of the nicer keyboard stores in the Seattle area. I can't complain.

 

American Music Seattle

 

Busch.

 

You guys should come to Toronto.

 

 

 

Looks great Sven.

 

Busch.

[CEB]

Chicago. Gand Music is closed. They are still the US distributor for NEO and still have the sound contracting business but the retail store is shut down a year ago. Business aint good.

[Bif_]

Sweetwater has an impressive showroom and is proof that you can be an online retailer and have brick and mortar too.

I would imagine Sweetwater does not have to deal with the same kind of foot traffic as a Guitar or Sam Ash. So, the gear should stay in pristine condition too. I need to visit that place one day.

 

Sweetwater offers a much more hands-on experience from the sales floor. Nothing at all like GC where kids run amok.

 

Yes, you should go there sometime. They even have a game room with some decent pinball machines and retro video games (all free to use, of course).

 

And they have an impressive array of digital and acoustic pianos.

[Rusty Mike]

Visited my local shops last night - was hoping to play the latest and greatest. About 10mins outside NYC, Jersey side.

 

Roland - an RD800

Kurzweil - nothing

Yamaha - demo unit of a MotifXF8, looks like it's been on the floor a long time. An MOXF6.

Korg - A KronosX6 - same condition as the XF8

Hammond - nothing

Casio - nothing, no PX-5S

Nord - nothing

Kawai - nothing

A little corner section of bottom of the line stuff from Williams

 

Sam Ash - a little better

Roland - FA08 and FA06

Kurzweil - nothing

Yamaha - XF, MOX, MX

Korg - KronosX6, Krome

Hammond - XK-3C

Casio - nothing, no PX-5S

Nord - Electro 4SW 73

Kawai - nothing

Large home digital piano section lots of models from Yamaha, Roland, Casio

 

I realize online is killing the brick and mortar shops. But how much are we saving when we can't try before we buy and we have to deal with returns or being stuck with something we never had a chance to actually play?

 

Interestingly enough, I was in Sam Ash in NYC last week to demo and purchase, mostly because the selection in my corner of NJ is awful.

 

I live about 15 minutes from an Ash with a GC right across the street in Springfield NJ. Ash had only low end or consumer keyboards, but did have a Moog LP on display oddly enough. The GC fared better, with a few Motifs, FA's and Kross'. I think there was a Kronos as well, but I cannot recall. They also have a separate room for DPs, but all lower price point stuff. In the past, they use to keep Hammonds and Nords on the floor, but not this trip.

 

I ended up buying an RD-800 from Ash in NYC. I got a decent deal, probably just as good as online. They shipped it to NJ for free, so no NY sales tax. I've been in there five or six times by now, and called ahead to work with the keyboard department manager, so I figured I would at least give them business for helping me out. The manager was helpful in that he reset the RD-800 and a Yamaha CP4 back to factory patches and left me alone while I played them - overall about 45 minutes or so. I did buy the extended warranty from them (on purpose - they didn't sell me on it), which is a benefit since I can bring it back to the closer NJ store if there's a problem. No need to ship or shlep.

 

So I did my part to support brick and mortar. Unfortunately, the Mom & Pop places are going the way of the DoDo Bird. I have a friend who owns a small MI store, and he doesn't carry keyboards anymore, aside from a few of the lower end Casios. His gripe is that the manufacturers and distributors don't help you with incentives on current stock when a new model comes out. He doesn't get a lot of traffic, so it's difficult for him to move mid and upper range instruments. When something on the floor is replaced by a new model, he's stuck. The older model doesn't sell unless he puts it at or below cost, so what's the point? He's not making money on it.

 

Elmer, are you referring to the Ash in Paramus? They used to be the bee's knees in terms of selection in NJ.

[Devnor]

Sam Ash on Central Expressway has a great keyboard dept. Played an Artis there recently.

[ElmerJFudd]

Elmer, are you referring to the Ash in Paramus? They used to be the bee's knees in terms of selection in NJ.

 

Ya, Mike. This is Paramus where the GC and Ash are both on Route 4 East toward NYC. I've been going to that Sam Ash since I was a kid, they are still the better shop than anything nearby - and unlike GC they keep up a nice instrumental section and stock sheet music. In that sense, I am glad they are able to keep the place afloat with sales of family and student stuff. The Pro Audio room is still very good... No shortage of guitars or drums. Just the Pro Keyboard room has dwindled.

 

I'll tell you what though... I didn't care for the springy action on the Nord Electro 4 SW73 at all. It's mounted right over the Hammond XK-3C. Now that is a clone wheel that looks/feels/sounds like something. And I wouldn't have known that for certain without being able to play them. Do the Sk1 and XK-1C resemble the XK-3C? Same action, draw bars, and modeled organ and fx?

[MoodyBluesKeys]

The SK1 and XK1C do not have the same action or drawbars. The organ sounds and Leslie emulation are better in my opinion. The XK3C is made to look and feel very similar to a B3 or C3 console. The SK series and XK1C are made for minimum weight, maximum portability.

I'd like to have the XK3C to stay in one place. It is way to heavy for me to consider for hauling around.

[WesG]

I drive over a hundred miles to Long & McQuade in Ottawa now (past several other music stores, including another L&M location) because the keyboard department actually has stuff to try. I have played CP1, CP5, CP4, MOX8, a bunch of Rolands, some Dave Smith thing, Nords, Hammonds, and many other boards I've forgotten under that roof in the last three years. The current keyboard guy doesn't know much about keyboards, but that's okay, he works hard and doesn't hide what he doesn't know.

 

Shopping at that store started when I was seriously in the market for a MOX8 and asked the local mom'n'pop if I could try one somehow. "Sure - buy one". As it turned out, I *HATE* that keyboard as a performance axe and I'm really, really happy I made the trip to find out before buying one.

 

I haven't been to Cosmo in Toronto yet. Well, I've been there, twice, both a few minutes after closing. Oh well. I've been to Long & McQuade downtown a few times, they also have a decent amount of stock. Played a Roland FP4F there last year that I seriously considered buying.

 

One thing I have to say - if you try it at the brick and mortar store, you should buy it there. Or at least try. If you're just going to buy online, IMHO, you just try it online. The brick and mortar stores are providing you with a value-add by having stuff on demo. Would you go to a bar for the free wings and sneak in your own beer?

 

As for Yamaha - they may not have a special incentive for demo models, but at least they are offering 10% off this month on in-stock items. My guess is that they want their retailers to turn over stock.

 

Wes

[Dr88s]

One thing I have to say - if you try it at the brick and mortar store, you should buy it there. Or at least try. If you're just going to buy online, IMHO, you just try it online. The brick and mortar stores are providing you with a value-add by having stuff on demo. Would you go to a bar for the free wings and sneak in your own beer?

Wes

 

Amen. I've been trying really hard to resist the temptation to buy online to save a few bucks to keep the impressive number of local stores we have here in business.

 

The painful part for me is the gross disparity in provincial taxes between neighboring provinces here. On a $2000 keyboard the extra compounded 2% on sales tax amounts to a lot.

[WesG]

Isn't 2% of $2000 only $40?